Mystery Babylon

[Roidecoeur78]

Rev 18:4 --Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues"

Many have tried to interpret the verses of revelation to come to a clear understanding of what entity "The Mother of Harlots" refers to. Some say the events have already occurred and this character has come and gone, others that they are happening now and "she" exists today, while still others say these are not those times and Mystery Babylon has yet to be born. The first group most often claim that ancient Rome was "she" of which the verses speak, the second group seem to think it refers to the Catholic church, with the pope being the Antichrist, and the last group seem to be in denial about any danger of destruction overtaking them whatsoever.

The ideas of the first and second(in part) group may be dismissed because neither ancient Rome nor the Catholic church were destroyed in a day, in fact, though they both have been diminished in stature to shadows of their former selves, they both continue to exist in their contemporary forms. The idea of the last group may more or less be dismissed, so long as one believes and trusts the written word of God to be truthful, because the signs of the times, as described by the Christ, are readily apparent (nations rising against nations, earthquakes everywhere, plagues, famines, wars and rumors of wars, the gospel having circled the globe). It follows that Mystery Babylon is more than likely extant in some way, shape, or form, but is neither Rome nor the Catholic church.

The most effective way we may investigate the identity of this character is by taking the descriptive details given in the book of revelation, and listing them in a way that removes confusion about the context that they are couched in. The following is an example of such a list:

The Traits of Mystery Babylon as described in Rev chapters 17 and 18
She is:

• of the wealthiest of nations 18:17
  
• an economic, political, and military superpower 17:18, 18:3
  
• a "she", and has a feminine name 17:6
• is filled with people of every nation, culture, and language of the world 17:15
• dressed in fine linen (white), purple (deep blue), and scarlet (red) 18:16
• a "city", which indicates an urbanized nation
• full of luxury and iniquities (sensuality, lust, greed, corruption, etc) 18:7
• both hated and envied for what she possesses and has done 17:2,18:4
• become mother to harlotry (physical and spiritual promiscuity, with every manner of idol worshiped in her people's hearts and minds, such as youth, beauty, comfort, wealth, luxury, politics, etc.) 18:5
• become a home to every manner of foul and loathsome spirit (inappropriate contentographers, fornicators, false prophets, mass shooters, money grabbers, worshipers of the self, etc) 18:2
• going to be destroyed in a single day by fire, for being ungodly while exalting herself as godly, when something resembling a mountain gets thrown into the sea (meteorite or super volcanic eruption?) 8:8, 18:8, 19, 21

"Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues"

 

[HTacianas]

Rev 18:4 --Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues"

Many have tried to interpret the verses of revelation to come to a clear understanding of what entity "The Mother of Harlots" refers to. Some say the events have already occurred and this character has come and gone, others that they are happening now and "she" exists today, while still others say these are not those times and Mystery Babylon has yet to be born. The first group most often claim that ancient Rome was "she" of which the verses speak, the second group seem to think it refers to the Catholic church, with the pope being the Antichrist, and the last group seem to be in denial about any danger of destruction overtaking them whatsoever.

The ideas of the first and second(in part) group may be dismissed because neither ancient Rome nor the Catholic church were destroyed in a day, in fact, though they both have been diminished in stature to shadows of their former selves, they both continue to exist in their contemporary forms. The idea of the last group may more or less be dismissed, so long as one believes and trusts the written word of God to be truthful, because the signs of the times, as described by the Christ, are readily apparent (nations rising against nations, plagues, famines, wars and rumors of wars, the gospel having circled the globe). It follows that Mystery Babylon is more than likely extant in some way, shape, or form, but is neither Rome nor the Catholic church.

The most effective way we may investigate the identity of this character is by taking the descriptive details given in the book of revelation, and listing them in a way that removes confusion about the context that they are couched in. The following is an example of such a list:

The Traits of Mystery Babylon

• She is of the wealthiest of nations
• She is an economic, political, and military superpower
• She is a "she", and has a feminine name
• She is filled with people of every nation, culture, and language of the world
• She is dressed in fine linen (white), purple (deep blue), and scarlet (red)
• She is a "city", which indicates an urbanized nation
• She is full of luxury and iniquities (sensuality, lust, greed, corruption, etc)
• She is both hated and envied for what she possesses and has done
• She has become mother to harlotry (physical and spiritual promiscuity, with every manner of idol worshiped in her people's hearts and minds, such as youth, beauty, comfort, wealth, luxury, politics, etc.)
• She has become a home to every manner of foul and loathsome spirit (inappropriate contentographers, fornicators, false prophets, mass shooters, money grabbers, worshipers of the self, etc)
• She will be destroyed in a single day by fire, for being ungodly while exalting herself as godly, when something resembling a mountain gets thrown into the sea (meteorite or super volcanic eruption?).

"Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues"

It could also refer to Jerusalem.

 

[icxn]

The word Babylon in Greek, Βαβυλὼν is of female gender grammatically, hence why it is referred to as she. Interpreted it means a com-mixture, confusion. Attracted by the riches and pleasures of this world our mind abandons God and the things of the spirit and commingles with the things of the flesh and is confused by them. From this union/confusion, all sin is born, hence why this mystery Babylon is the mother of all spiritual harlotry.

So mystery Babylon is primarily a spiritual condition, a worldly disposition of soul. It is a way of life contrary to the Gospel. It is any person or group of people or city that is given over to sensuality... and I can think of many that fit the profile.

Coming out of her is not so much a physical displacement, though that can be helpful, but a change of heart, a turning towards God and abstinence from sensuality.

 

[Roidecoeur78]

Coming out of her is not so much a physical displacement, though that can be helpful, but a change of heart, a turning towards God and abstinence from sensuality.

Yours is a great metaphorical, philosophical interpretation of the scripture, but takes quite a bit of reading into what is not explicitly there; and, no doubt, every spiritual state has its physical analogue. But it takes a lot of implying to reach such a conclusion, and doesn't allow for how such a nation-state will be destroyed in a single day, by a particular named catastrophe. Nor would it allow for the days of tribulation being shortened, lest the elect might not make it through them. That some scripture is meant as literal, some figurative is beyond doubt though. So those that have ears to hear and eyes to see will have to go by that, and hope they aren't being deceived.

 

[eleos1954]

Rev 18:4 --Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues"

Many have tried to interpret the verses of revelation to come to a clear understanding of what entity "The Mother of Harlots" refers to. Some say the events have already occurred and this character has come and gone, others that they are happening now and "she" exists today, while still others say these are not those times and Mystery Babylon has yet to be born. The first group most often claim that ancient Rome was "she" of which the verses speak, the second group seem to think it refers to the Catholic church, with the pope being the Antichrist, and the last group seem to be in denial about any danger of destruction overtaking them whatsoever.

The ideas of the first and second(in part) group may be dismissed because neither ancient Rome nor the Catholic church were destroyed in a day, in fact, though they both have been diminished in stature to shadows of their former selves, they both continue to exist in their contemporary forms. The idea of the last group may more or less be dismissed, so long as one believes and trusts the written word of God to be truthful, because the signs of the times, as described by the Christ, are readily apparent (nations rising against nations, earthquakes everywhere, plagues, famines, wars and rumors of wars, the gospel having circled the globe). It follows that Mystery Babylon is more than likely extant in some way, shape, or form, but is neither Rome nor the Catholic church.

The most effective way we may investigate the identity of this character is by taking the descriptive details given in the book of revelation, and listing them in a way that removes confusion about the context that they are couched in. The following is an example of such a list:

The Traits of Mystery Babylon

• She is of the wealthiest of nations
• She is an economic, political, and military superpower
• She is a "she", and has a feminine name
• She is filled with people of every nation, culture, and language of the world
• She is dressed in fine linen (white), purple (deep blue), and scarlet (red)
• She is a "city", which indicates an urbanized nation
• She is full of luxury and iniquities (sensuality, lust, greed, corruption, etc)
• She is both hated and envied for what she possesses and has done
• She has become mother to harlotry (physical and spiritual promiscuity, with every manner of idol worshiped in her people's hearts and minds, such as youth, beauty, comfort, wealth, luxury, politics, etc.)
• She has become a home to every manner of foul and loathsome spirit (inappropriate contentographers, fornicators, false prophets, mass shooters, money grabbers, worshipers of the self, etc)
• She will be destroyed in a single day by fire, for being ungodly while exalting herself as godly, when something resembling a mountain gets thrown into the sea (meteorite or super volcanic eruption?).

"Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues"

Could you please provide the scripture(s) next each of your listed "she" statements. Thank you.

 

[Roidecoeur78]

Could you please provide the scripture(s) next each of your listed "she" statements. Thank you.

Done

 

[icxn]

Yours is a great metaphorical, philosophical interpretation of the scripture, but takes quite a bit of reading into what is not explicitly there; and, no doubt, every spiritual state has its physical analogue. But it takes a lot of implying to reach such a conclusion, and doesn't allow for how such a nation-state will be destroyed in a single day, by a particular named catastrophe. Nor would it allow for the days of tribulation being shortened, lest the elect might not make it through them. That some scripture is meant as literal, some figurative is beyond doubt though. So those that have ears to hear and eyes to see will have to go by that, and hope they aren't being deceived.

And there I thought, judging from your avatar, that you were looking to take a peek outside the sense-perceptiple world... and of the operations of Ezekiel's inner wheel.

 

[Roidecoeur78]

And there I thought, judging from your avatar, that you were looking to take a peek outside the sense-perceptiple world... and of the operations of Ezekiel's inner wheel.

Judge not, I cannot discount or entirely disagree with your exposition. Flammarion notwithstanding, let's go with Occam's razor over the rabbit hole of philosophy any day. Although, I highly recommend the Socratic dialogues of Plato to anyone with a thirst for that kind of thing.

 

[friend of]

You really make it sound like mystery Babylon is the USA in your post, TC.

I lean towards thinking mystery Babylon is the world financial/trade system.

 

[Mark51]

Rev 18:4 --Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues"

“Babylon” or “Babylon the Great,” referred to in Revelations, is figurative because it does not have a physical location.(Revelations 1:1) It is described as a woman/harlot that rides the symbolic seven-headed beast-a symbol of political world powers. She is described to be a city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth. (Revelations 17:1-6, 15, 18) Her other identified characteristics is her drunkenness “with the blood of the holy ones.” (Revelations 18:24) Furthermore, because of her influences over governments by misleading them by her spiritualist practices, she either directly or indirectly persecuted/killed those in opposition to her spiritual fornication and false religious practices/doctrines. Compare what God’s considers prostitution (spiritual): Exodus 34:12-16; Isaiah 1:21; Jeremiah 3:6-10. 13; Ezekiel 16:15-17, 20-38; Revelations 18:3, 4; 9-11; 15-19. This apostasy has not gone unnoticed and judgment is awaiting her and of those that worship her.-Revelations 17:16; 18:2, 4, 5. In summary “she” is the world empire of false religion. See Revelation 18:23.

 

[DaDad]

Many have tried to interpret the verses of revelation ...

If you're looking for the significance of "Mystery Babylon", I'd suggest that you start with Nebuchadnezzar and what he conceived (or actually exploited) for his Babylonian Empire. And I'll give you a running start: The Image of Metals consists of the Head; Breast & Arms; Belly & Thighs; Legs; and Feet. And where Nebuchadnezzar used the Metropolis Model to regulate business, build roads, build libraries, and build the first "amusement park" (one of the Seven Wonders of the World -- the Hanging Gardens); government has evolved to regulate the ounces dispensed of sugary carbonated beverages.

Hmmmmmm, perhaps the creators of Superman were onto something when they called NYC - Metropolis, and where Superman worked - The Daily Planet. Now if the church were as wise ....

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[Lost4words]

Jerusalem has my vote

 

[Roidecoeur78]

If you're looking for the significance of "Mystery Babylon", I'd suggest that you start with Nebuchadnezzar and what he conceived (or actually exploited) for his Babylonian Empire.

Original Babylon fell well before revelation was written, and was written with the author fully aware of what Rome was at the time; yet the author uses the word Babylon to describe a spiritual heir to the original Babylonian empire somewhere in the future, and distant from the known world at the time. So even if the clay and iron feet of Nchdnzr's dream idol was referring to Rome as the heir to the original Babylon, the significance of that dream died when the Roman empire collapsed and remained as only the city bearing the name. Every empire that has come along since Babylon has been a practical descendant of Babylon (Greece, Rome, Spain, Britain, etc). They operated off the same engine, the lust and greed of the individual taxpayer for obtaining creature comforts. Thus, all manner of evils are done with the taxpayer's contributions, and they can be called necessary and for "the good" of the nation. The government has more or less been made either the instrument of the wicked to simply do what sins they are going to do and call them justified, legal, taxable, and good; but it has also been made the scapegoat for those that don't feel like being governed.

Since everything is governed by God anyway, any fixation on something like the government is just neo-idolatry.

Repent of Modern Idolatry

It's very telling that the those that are sure of the time/location of Mystery Babylon are always sure it's not where, and when, they are. As you can see, there may be as many self-deceiving interpretations of the verses you ask about as there are people who have read them, but there is only one true and accurate reality to the matter. God will show the truth to those that are receptive to it (that's not to assume I am one of them). The whole having to take the mark of the beast in order to buy and sell would indicate the compelling of many to choose their own physical survival in this world, rather than maintaining any kind of faithfulness to Christ's example (instinctive obedience to the law of the jungle sifting out those whose priority is saving their skin and earthly life, rather than keeping their soul unpolluted from the world).

The reality of Lot's situation in Sodom rings true even today. He recognized the evils and wickedness going on all around him, and was pained and disgusted by it. While everyone else in Sodom, including Lot's own wife and daughters, accused him of being a closed-minded bigot and were not even questioning their moral/spiritual standing. They more or less said 'what wickedness? look at all the freedom in indulgence and luxury we have, how is that evil?'. Well, the only way someone gets blinded to the existence of the evil they are enmeshed and complicit in is when they are a slave/addict to it. It will be better for someone to wear ragged clothes and eat locusts and wild honey than to conform themselves to the world, whether in Mystery Babylon or not.

 

[DaDad]

Original Babylon fell well before revelation was written, ...

Perhaps you missed that what made the Babylonian Empire the first of a series in the Image Of Metals, was the "Metropolis Model" which it employed, and successive nations followed. Thus "Mystery Babylon". And when Jesus returns HE will replace the Metropolis Model with a completely new governmental structure.

... the clay and iron feet of Nchdnzr's dream idol was referring to Rome ...

You propose a 4a/4b scenario, but verse 45 says:

... the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold ... = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE​

... and if I'm not mistaken, it would seem that we presently live in a "divided kingdom" as represented by the Three Superpowers and the United Nations. Or maybe I'm confused ...
Thanks,
DaDad

 

[robycop3]

"Mystery, Babylon" is a religion started by Nimrod & Semiramis, with many of its features being later adopted by the RCC, such as belief in purgatory, Mariolatry(with their placing Mary in place of Semiramis as "queena hevvin"), offices of pope & cardinals, indulgences, prayers to the dead, on & on.

Clearly, the harlot of Rev. 17 is Rome, especially the RCC, as its seat is in Rome.

 

[DaDad]

Clearly, ...

Clearly NOT!

 

[robycop3]

Clearly NOT!

Clearly YES!
Rev. 17: 18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”
What city then reigned over many kings of the earth?????????????????????????

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Babylon is the Roman Catholic Church. Since the Pope's Church has rejected the pure Gospel and declared its devotion to errors, since the Middle Ages the Pope's Church has hardened its heart, has become stubborn against reform. This Church's guilt can't be expressed. It has done more to spread the doctrine of works than any other organization, trying to obtain influence with the great in the world, to lead them into idolatry and to make them its servants. And so far as the earth's merchants are concerned, this Church's pomp has brought them wealth. God's name, which the Pope's Church used, was and is made a bait for the unwary, and God's wrath's aroused.

 

[robycop3]

Babylon is the Roman Catholic Church. Since the Pope's Church has rejected the pure Gospel and declared its devotion to errors, since the Middle Ages the Pope's Church has hardened its heart, has become stubborn against reform. This Church's guilt can't be expressed. It has done more to spread the doctrine of works than any other organization, trying to obtain influence with the great in the world, to lead them into idolatry and to make them its servants. And so far as the earth's merchants are concerned, this Church's pomp has brought them wealth. God's name, which the Pope's Church used, was and is made a bait for the unwary, and God's wrath's aroused.

I agree. While at the time the Revelation was given, the Vatican didn't exist, but now it's the heart of the city of Rome, which is very clearly indicated in Rev. 17:18. (But then, the Beast", neither the man nor his empire, existed then, either. They're both still future,)

 

[DaDad]

Clearly YES!
Rev. 17: 18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”
What city then reigned over many kings of the earth?????????????????????????

The Babylonian Empire was “the first true metropolis in western history, a business as well as an administrative center”[1] -- the prototype of governments as we see them to this day. The Babylonians controlled trade and commerce across western Asia, from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf, building highways, legislating business, and beautifying the capital.[2]
______________________________________________________________
[1] John B. Christopher and Robert Lee Wolf, A History of Civilization, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1967, p. 35
[2] Will Durant, Story of Civilization: Part II, Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp. 223-224​

The Metropolis model started in the city of Babylon; then the city of ~Alexandria; then the city of ~Athens; then the city of ~Rome; then the city of ~Paris; then the city of ~London; and presently resides in New York City, and shall soon be relocated to the city of Jerusalem under the flag of the United Nations.



DaDad