Mysteries of the Flood

[Aman777]

Nobody believes or follows the whole Bible. Not even you.

Dear Seipai, I try and I'm disappointed that Lutherans seem to know more than God. I'm what is known as a Fundamentalist. I see the Bible as Literally True.

And you are making mistake number one. That verse only claims that the word of Jesus is true. The problem is that if there was a mistranslation then it is no longer Jesus' word. Plus only a very very very small part of the Bible is Jesus' word. So according to that verse most of the Bible could be wrong.

I'm also surprised that Lutherans don't know that Jesus IS the Word. Every story in the Bible, speaks of Jesus IF you can understand. You were just kidding about being a Lutheran. Right?

God tells us that He breathed the words to the writers from inside them, through the Holy Spirit. Be careful when you accuse the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, of telling falsehoods. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin. How are Lutherans saved apart from believing the Bible?

Again show the supposed quotes that say that. You are merely interpreting the Bible to suit your purposes.

False accusation as the following verses show:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration (Greek-God Breathed) of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Remember that the Holy Spirit is inside the men breathing to them what to speak or write.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ IS the power of God unto Salvation according to Rom 1:16. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is His death for mankind's sins, His burial, and His resurrection on the third Day ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES.

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

I ask you again. How can you be saved apart from believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ according to the Scriptures? God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[PsychoSarah]

I'm also surprised that Lutherans don't know that Jesus IS the Word. Every story in the Bible, speaks of Jesus IF you can understand. You were just kidding about being a Lutheran. Right?

From what I understand with god giving the authors the words of the bible through the Holy Spirit and what I understand of the trinity (the father (god), the son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit (?)), aren't Jesus and the Holy Spirit separate entities or at the very least separate parts of god for those who follow the idea of the trinity?

Then if those words were done through the Holy Spirit, they weren't through Jesus (or, god in his physical Jesus form, depending on who you ask)? Or is the Holy Spirit also Jesus but in dead form (I am not exactly sure what or who the Holy Spirit is supposed to be exactly, I understand its function, but of the trinity I find it to be the most vague)?

 

[Queller]

Dear Queller, Genesis 1:27 shows that God is creating Adam (mankind) in His Image. God is STILL creating sinners in Christ, since it takes the agreement of the Trinity to CREATE a new creature in Christ. Jhn 14:16 Jesus tells us that He and His Father are still working up to the present time, Jhn 5:17 and the Holy Spirit and the Church are working today to CREATE new Christians.

The next events will happen after Jesus returns to rule and reign for a thousand years:

Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Mankind has Never had dominion or rule over EVERY living thing as the Flu vaccine testifies. Polar bears, Sharks and Mosquitoes don't recognize that we rule over them because we have NEVER ruled them. After Jesus returns we will as Isaiah 11 clearly shows.

The rest of Genesis one tells of what will happen after Jesus returns. Genesis 1:29-30 tells us that EVERYthing with life will become a Vegetarian. This has NEVER happened in History because it's prophecy, as Isaiah 11:7 shows when the Lion eats straw like the Ox.

When the present 6th Day ends, it will be because God has brought His Creation to perfection and filled it with a host of believers in Jesus Christ as Genesis 2:1 shows. This can only happen AFTER the last sinners to be saved is saved and safe in Heaven, for ALL the host must be present BEFORE this verse can be fully true.

Gen 2:1¶Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

When God's Creation has been brought to Perfection and filled with all of it's host, which includes ALL Christians:

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made.

God rests from ALL of His work AFTER the Creation is brought to perfection and filled with the host of Heaven. Remember that the Trinity is STILL working Today, which means that God's rest from ALL of His work is Future. In order to confirm this, read the next verse:

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it (set apart) because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made.


At this point in time, it will be too late to be Created in God's Image or in Christ, Spiritually. If this had already happened in the past, then NO one would be saved because ALL of God's work would have long ago ceased. God will NOT rest until His Creation is brought to perfection and that is a long time from now because it is AFTER Jesus rules and reigns for a thousand years.

Genesis one is the complete History of the 6 Days or Ages of God's Creation of the Perfect 3rd Heaven.
Genesis two tells us what happens AFTER God's Creation is completely finished or brought to perfection. For God to finish a work is for that work to be made perfect. If it's NOT, perfect, then it's NOT finished. That's God's Truth. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

Wow, I don't even know where to start. This is without a doubt the strangest interpretation of the Bible I have ever seen.

For example, this line "Genesis two tells us what happens AFTER God's Creation is completely finished or brought to perfection." means that the Adam created in Genesis 2 has not been created yet and is therefore an entirely different being than the Adam created in Genesis 1. I'm not even sure how how that works Biblically.

It would be really impressive if you had ANY outside Biblical scholarship that agreed with you. As it is, all you have is your opinion that every Bible verse agrees with your interpretation.

 

[Queller]

Dear Seipai, I try and I'm disappointed that Lutherans seem to know more than God. I'm what is known as a Fundamentalist. I see the Bible as Literally True.

No, you do not. If you did then you would believe that the days in Genesis 1 were literal 24-hour days. If you want to interpret those days as something other than 24-hour days just like we have now that's fine, but in doing so, you no longer look at the Bible as "Literally True".

 

[TLK Valentine]

Dear Seipai, I try and I'm disappointed that Lutherans seem to know more than God. I'm what is known as a Fundamentalist. I see the Bible as Literally True.

Can't speak for God, but the Lutherans certainly know more than you.

I'm also surprised that Lutherans don't know that Jesus IS the Word.

That's because the BIRD is the Word...

Bird is the Word! | FAMILY GUY | FOX BROADCASTING - YouTube

I ask you again. How can you be saved apart from believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ according to the Scriptures? God Bless you.

Scriptures are a tool, nothing more -- those who knew Jesus personally had no need of them; why do we?

 

[Aman777]

This is not a different planet than the one described in Genesis 1.

Dear Queller, Genesis one tells us of a world, a Universe or Heaven, which was made in the midst or middle of the water. Do you think our Cosmos is surrounded by a firmament which protects us from the water which surrounds our Universe? What do you think happened to Adam's Earth?

There is no evidence whatsoever that when the Bible speaks of the Nephilim it is talking about evolution. None.

Sure there is. Read Genesis 6:4 which tells us that the sons of God (Nephilim) married and produced children with Adam's daughters. The offspring were intellectual giants when compared to their Nephilim parent. That's evolution or descent with modification. The modification is that the sons of God inherited Adam's unique Human intelligence.


Agreed. History confirms that the first Human farmers on this Earth walked out to the mountains of Ararat into the valleys of Northern Mesopotamia some 10k years ago and Human civilization began.

How long ago was the Flood?

It was 10,000 years ago, in man's time. This is confirmed by the FIRST Human cities which Noah's great grandsons built. Genesis 10:10-11 History agrees and some of those cities are STILL here. ie. Nineveh

I understand it just fine. Your twisted interpretation of scripture is not something any reasonable Christian would recognize.

Correction: It's only twisted to those who believe the ancient Theology which does NOT agree with Scripture. ONLY some religionists, who promote the traditional ancient theology, which does NOT agree with Science and History, accuse me of such. NO Bible believer does, since I support my views with God's Holy Word.

For example, the Nephilim were actually prehistoric man? Would that be H. habilis? H. rudolfensis? H. erectus? Neanderthal?

Cro-magnon man was here when Noah arrived. They evolved from the water on Day 5.

Of course none of those were tall enough to be considered giants so it can't be any of those. Who were they exactly?

They were intellectual giants, as the end of Genesis 6:4 plainly states. Did you also notice the "and also after that", which prophecies that this will happen again? It did, on our Planet, when today's Humans became the offspring of prehistoric people and Noah's descendants.

So who descended from Noah, his wife, their sons, and their wives?

Noah and his sons were already married. Noah's grandsons, like Cain on the Adam's Earth, had NO other Humans to marry. They married and produced today's Humans with the prehistoric people who were already here when the Ark arrived. Do you know where Cain's wife came from? According to Genesis 1:21 and Science, prehistoric people evolved from the water on the 5th Day, which was some 3.7 billion years ago, in man's time.

No, they aren't false accusations. You hold to a scriptural interpretation that no one else holds to. There is a reason for that.

True. Only those who understand today's Science and History can recognize the Superior Intelligence Who authored Genesis. NO ancient goat herder could have possibly known what the Holy Spirit is telling us in Genesis one. It's PROOF of God since ONLY God knew the scientific facts revealed in Genesis Chapter one, 3,000 years ago. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Aman777]

From what I understand with god giving the authors the words of the bible through the Holy Spirit and what I understand of the trinity (the father (god), the son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit (?)), aren't Jesus and the Holy Spirit separate entities or at the very least separate parts of god for those who follow the idea of the trinity?

Then if those words were done through the Holy Spirit, they weren't through Jesus (or, god in his physical Jesus form, depending on who you ask)? Or is the Holy Spirit also Jesus but in dead form (I am not exactly sure what or who the Holy Spirit is supposed to be exactly, I understand its function, but of the trinity I find it to be the most vague)?

Dear PS, God is an invisible Spirit. I look upon Him as the Spirit of Love. This invisible Spirit exists physically ONLY in Jesus Christ, called YHWH in the Old Testament. Col 2:9 The Holy Spirit is sent into every believer by the Father and the Son, when they have believed in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit lives physically ONLY in Jesus Christ and His believers, which are called Christians. God is ONE...Spiritually...with Humans. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Aman777]

Wow, I don't even know where to start. This is without a doubt the strangest interpretation of the Bible I have ever seen.

Dear Queller, Then refute me Scripturally IF you think you can. You could also try to support the traditional religious view with Scripture, which you cannot. If you don't believe me, ask Dad.

For example, this line "Genesis two tells us what happens AFTER God's Creation is completely finished or brought to perfection." means that the Adam created in Genesis 2 has not been created yet and is therefore an entirely different being than the Adam created in Genesis 1. I'm not even sure how how that works Biblically.

Adam and Eve (mankind) is still be created in God's Image TODAY. Jesus is the Image of the invisible God. That is WHY I post that we live today at Genesis 1:27. We will not advance to the prophecy of Genesis 1:28-31 until AFTER Jesus returns. This is clearly stated in Isaiah 11.

It would be really impressive if you had ANY outside Biblical scholarship that agreed with you. As it is, all you have is your opinion that every Bible verse agrees with your interpretation.

My view agrees with Scripture, Science, and History, while the traditional religious view does NOT agree with either. That is WHY I call it God's Truth, since it agrees in EVERY way with EVERY other discovered Truth of mankind. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Aman777]

No, you do not. If you did then you would believe that the days in Genesis 1 were literal 24-hour days. If you want to interpret those days as something other than 24-hour days just like we have now that's fine, but in doing so, you no longer look at the Bible as "Literally True".

Dear Queller, You are again confusing English words with what is actually written in Hebrew. A "Day", the word yowm in Hebrew, means a period of time. It can be 12 or 24 hours, a lifetime, or forever. A good example is the 7th Day which has NO morning and NO evening. That's because the 7th Day is Eternity, and it has NO end. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Aman777]

Aman:>>I ask you again. How can you be saved apart from believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ according to the Scriptures? God Bless you.

Scriptures are a tool, nothing more -- those who knew Jesus personally had no need of them; why do we?

Dear Valentine, God has chosen to reveal Himself through His Word. Jesus is the Word. John 1:1

Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.

Jesus tells us that the Scriptures speak of Him:

Jhn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Me.

How do you know about Jesus? Is it from His Holy Word? Of course it is since Jesus physcially left this world 2k years ago.

In order to be saved, one must believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ according to the Scriptures. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Perhaps that is why you identify yourself as an Agnostic, or one who questions God's existence? Right? God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Queller]

Dear Queller, Then refute me Scripturally IF you think you can. You could also try to support the traditional religious view with Scripture, which you cannot. If you don't believe me, ask Dad.

Adam and Eve (mankind) is still be created in God's Image TODAY. Jesus is the Image of the invisible God. That is WHY I post that we live today at Genesis 1:27. We will not advance to the prophecy of Genesis 1:28-31 until AFTER Jesus returns. This is clearly stated in Isaiah 11.

You have created a scriptural interpretation which consists almost entirely of YOUR PERSONAL INTERPRETATION of scripture which of course cannot contradict YOUR PERSONAL INTERPRETATION of scripture. It's like you are using a dictionary of your own devising that no one else has access to.

For example, what is it about Isaiah 11 that makes you think Genesis 1:28-31 has not happened yet?

My view agrees with Scripture, Science, and History, while the traditional religious view does NOT agree with either. That is WHY I call it God's Truth, since it agrees in EVERY way with EVERY other discovered Truth of mankind. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

No, your view agrees with YOUR INTERPRETATION of scripture, science, and history. Nothing more.

 

[Queller]

Dear Queller, You are again confusing English words with what is actually written in Hebrew. A "Day", the word yowm in Hebrew, means a period of time. It can be 12 or 24 hours, a lifetime, or forever. A good example is the 7th Day which has NO morning and NO evening. That's because the 7th Day is Eternity, and it has NO end. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

Here's the problem with this interpretation.

The Hebrew word yom is used 2301 times in the Old Testament. Outside of Genesis 1, yom plus a number (used 410 times) always indicates an ordinary day, i.e., a 24-hour period. The words “evening” and “morning” together (38 times) always indicate an ordinary day. Yom + “evening” or “morning” (23 times) always indicates an ordinary day. Yom + “night” (52 times) always indicates an ordinary day.

The context in which the word yom is used in Genesis 1:5-2:2, describing each day as “the evening and the morning,” makes it quite clear that the author of Genesis meant 24-hour periods. The references to “evening” and “morning” make no sense unless they refer to a literal 24-hour day.

Source

I can link to many more sites and commentaries that say basically the same thing.

So why do you believe that the word yom does not mean a literal 24-hour day in Genesis 1 when virtually every other time in the Bible that the word yom is used with a qualifier such as a number or "morning and evening" it DOES mean a literal, ordinary, 24-hour day?
​

 

[PsychoSarah]

Dear PS, God is an invisible Spirit. I look upon Him as the Spirit of Love. This invisible Spirit exists physically ONLY in Jesus Christ, called YHWH in the Old Testament. Col 2:9 The Holy Spirit is sent into every believer by the Father and the Son, when they have believed in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit lives physically ONLY in Jesus Christ and His believers, which are called Christians. God is ONE...Spiritually...with Humans. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

So the Holy Spirit is god on earth but without physical form?

 

[Delphiki]

I'd say the authors even accompanied it with redundancy, by explaining "and then the evening, then the morning was the ___ day... "

 

[PsychoSarah]

I'd say the authors even accompanied it with redundancy, by explaining "and then the evening, then the morning was the ___ day... "

I can't read genesis without my brain hurting from bad writing. If it had one more "and it was good" I would have skipped the whole thing.

 

[Aman777]

Here's the problem with this interpretation.

The Hebrew word yom is used 2301 times in the Old Testament. Outside of Genesis 1, yom plus a number (used 410 times) always indicates an ordinary day, i.e., a 24-hour period. The words “evening” and “morning” together (38 times) always indicate an ordinary day. Yom + “evening” or “morning” (23 times) always indicates an ordinary day. Yom + “night” (52 times) always indicates an ordinary day.

The context in which the word yom is used in Genesis 1:5-2:2, describing each day as “the evening and the morning,” makes it quite clear that the author of Genesis meant 24-hour periods. The references to “evening” and “morning” make no sense unless they refer to a literal 24-hour day.

Source​

I can link to many more sites and commentaries that say basically the same thing. ​

So why do you believe that the word yom does not mean a literal 24-hour day in Genesis 1 when virtually every other time in the Bible that the word yom is used with a qualifier such as a number or "morning and evening" it DOES mean a literal, ordinary, 24-hour day?​

Dear Queller, Because the word yowm is used many times in Scripture to mean many different things. Also the 7th Day has NO evening and morning.

yowm Pronunciation yōm (Key)
Part of Speech
masculine noun

Root Word (Etymology)
From an unused root meaning to be hot

TWOT Reference
852



Outline of Biblical Usage

1. 
   
   
   day, time, year
   1. day (as opposed to night)
   2. 
      
      
      day (24 hour period)
      1. as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
      2. 
         
         
         as a division of time
         1. a working day, a day's journey
   3. days, lifetime (pl.)
   4. time, period (general)
   5. year
   6. 
      
      
      temporal references
      1. today
      2. yesterday
      3. tomorrow

Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 2287
AV — day 2008, time 64, chronicles + 01697 37, daily 44, ever 18, year 14, continually 10, when 10, as 10, while 8, full 8 always 4, whole 4, alway 4, misc 44

IOW, counting the times when the word yowm is used to mean more than 24 hours is 100 times. I picked out one which uses the word yowm to mean alway.

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, Gentium]KJV Strong's H3117 matches the Hebrew יוֹם (yowm).[/FONT]

"alway*" AND "H3117"
occurs in 12 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 1 (Gen 6:3 - Eze 38:8)

Line-By-Line Order:

Verse-Reference

Reference-Verse

Separate Line

Verse Only

Reference Only

Reference Delimiters:

none—Jhn 1:1 KJV

square—[Jhn 1:1 KJV]

curly—{Jhn 1:1 KJV}

parens—(Jhn 1:1 KJV)

Paragraph Order:

Verse-Reference

Reference-Verse

Reference-Only

Other Options:

Abbreviate Books

Quotes around Verses

Remove Square Brackets

Number Delimiters:*

No Number

No Delimiter — 15

Square — [15]

Curly — {15}

Parens — (15)


Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days H3117 (yowm) shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Try again? or must I show you the other 99 times?

In Love,
Aman

 

[Aman777]

So the Holy Spirit is god on earth but without physical form?

Dear PS, The Holy Spirit is inside believers. He's the invisible Spirit of Truth.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

In Love,
Aman

 

[PsychoSarah]

Dear PS, The Holy Spirit is inside believers. He's the invisible Spirit of Truth.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

In Love,
Aman

Just in humans, or would it also be in other animals? It would be heaven without my dogs.

 

[Delphiki]

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days H3117 (yowm) shall be an hundred and twenty years.

I'd like to point out that you only know that yowm doesn't mean 24-hour day here because the number (120) precedes and quantifies the word "years" unlike in Genesis 1.

Let's see the others.

On a side note, there have been people that have lived more than 120 years. It's rare, but it's happened. I guess some people are immune to the LORD's curses.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I'd like to point out that you only know that yowm doesn't mean 24-hour day here because the number (120) precedes and quantifies the word "years" unlike in Genesis 1.

Let's see the others.

On a side note, there have been people that have lived more than 120 years. It's rare, but it's happened. I guess some people are immune to the LORD's curses.

World record for lifespan was a French women who lived to be 122 and some fraction of a year. For men, it was a guy who lived to be 116.