My Tilt-a-Whirl Challenge

[AV1611VET]

So it's your brothers and sister in Christ who can take a hike, then -- or at least they would if you couldn't use them against atheism?

Keep trying ... you'll get it eventually.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Keep trying ... you'll get it eventually.

I think it's pretty well gotten at this point: Theistic evolution can take a hike -- unless it can be used against Atheism.

Correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[AV1611VET]

I think it's pretty well gotten at this point: Theistic evolution can take a hike -- unless it can be used against Atheism.

Correct me if I'm wrong...

You are not wrong.

 

[TLK Valentine]

You are not wrong.

So you consider it a lie -- but you have no objections using it to fight what you see as a bigger lie (evolution).

Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[CarlosTomy]

Follow the logic please.

I consider TEs an enemy of atheism; and our brothers & sisters in Christ.

Well, duh! TE means THEISITIC evolution. So that kinda makes it impossible to be ATHEISTIC evolution.

As for them being your brothers and sisters in Christ, well that's awful ecumenical of you. And probably pretty accurate...unless you are of the type of creationist who feels that anyone who disavows literal 6 day Creation is disavowing Jesus himself (which some Creationists DO think that very thing).

This is why Creationism is so uncertain and useless. Since Creationists are at each others throats over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin-type questions it cannot move forward with anything useful to add to our understanding of the ACTUAL earth.

Theistic evolution, IMHO, is what people believe who want to have BOTH God in their lives AND an appreciation for what REALITY says about things.

This is about as good as any "religious idea" can get probably.

I think of Theistic Evolution as the same as "Unicorn Quantum Mechanics". A Unicorn Quantum Mechanics person wants to believe in Unicorns AND QM. So they can operate as a chemist or physicist and it won't impact their performance at all that at some part of their head contains a desire to believe that Unicorns MIGHT EXIST somewhere.

Unrelated, maybe linked through some "imagination" game, but in the end not standing in the way of using QM to do actual science.

 

[AV1611VET]

So you consider it a lie -- but you have no objections using it to fight what you see as a bigger lie (evolution).

Correct -- since it argues for God.

I don't use it personally.

If you disagree with the {The enemy of my enemy is my friend.} philosophy, that's your prerogative.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hmm, I wonder how AV feels about "atheistic" gravity?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Correct -- since it argues for God.

I don't use it personally.

But you encourage those who do -- even though you consider it a lie. You encourage your fellow Chirstians to believe in a lie so that they can fight another lie... with their lie.

If you disagree with the {The enemy of my enemy is my friend.} philosophy, that's your prerogative.

It's effective in the short term, but I just don't think that trying to convince my enemies that I'm their friend in order to sic them on my other enemies is a very Christian attitude.

Don't get me wrong -- Machiavelli would be proud, as would Sun Tzu. One has to wonder what Jesus would think...

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, duh! TE means THEISITIC evolution. So that kinda makes it impossible to be ATHEISTIC evolution.

Doh ... you got it!

As for them being your brothers and sisters in Christ, well that's awful ecumenical of you.

It's even true. We's awl juss a big happuh famlee.

And probably pretty accurate...unless you are of the type of creationist who feels that anyone who disavows literal 6 day Creation is disavowing Jesus himself (which some Creationists DO think that very thing).

Not this'n.

This is why Creationism is so uncertain and useless.

Really?

Since Creationists are at each others throats over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin-type questions it cannot move forward with anything useful to add to our understanding of the ACTUAL earth.

Ya ... we spend more time here arguing each other than arguing you guys, don't we?

Theistic evolution, IMHO, is what people believe who want to have BOTH God in their lives AND an appreciation for what REALITY says about things.

Is that wrong?

Can't have their cake and eat it, too?

This is about as good as any "religious idea" can get probably.

Then you haven't seen mine, which can do both as well -- without TE cosmology.

I think of Theistic Evolution as the same as "Unicorn Quantum Mechanics". A Unicorn Quantum Mechanics person wants to believe in Unicorns AND QM. So they can operate as a chemist or physicist and it won't impact their performance at all that at some part of their head contains a desire to believe that Unicorns MIGHT EXIST somewhere.

Unrelated, maybe linked through some "imagination" game, but in the end not standing in the way of using QM to do actual science.

I like that comparison -- that's pretty good.

I once asked (or started a thread, I can't remember) to name one button we creationists (or Christians; again, I can't remember) can't push, that atheists can.

 

[AV1611VET]

Hmm, I wonder how AV feels about "atheistic" gravity?

It's a downer.

 

[AV1611VET]

But you encourage those who do -- even though you consider it a lie. You encourage your fellow Chirstians to believe in a lie so that they can fight another lie... with their lie.



It's effective in the short term, but I just don't think that trying to convince my enemies that I'm their friend in order to sic them on my other enemies is a very Christian attitude.

Don't get me wrong -- Machiavelli would be proud, as would Sun Tzu. One has to wonder what Jesus would think...

I always liked Gamaliel's advice.

Acts 5:38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
Acts 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I always like Gamaliel's advice.

Acts 5:38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
Acts 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

But you don't refrain from TEs, or let them alone -- you help them stay on their erroneous path. You encourage them in their belief of a lie.

As I said -- you believe TE to be a lie, and you encourage TEs (your Christian brethren, so you say) to continue believing in it -- so that you can exploit them.

Doesn't sound like God's work to me...

 

[AV1611VET]

But you don't refrain from TEs, or let them alone -- you help them stay on their erroneous path. You encourage them in their belief of a lie.

I do?

I must have misplaced my pom-poms somewhere.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I do?

I must have misplaced my pom-poms somewhere.

You left them back in this post.

You support TEs, even though you think their position is a lie -- by your own admission, you support the lie because you can use it to fight a bigger lie -- or, to be more accurate, goad others to fight a bigger lie for you.

 

[AV1611VET]

You support TEs,

You're wrong -- as usual.

But this has gone on long enough.

Go ahead and talk to the hand.

 

[Davian]

You're wrong -- as usual.

But this has gone on long enough.

Go ahead and talk to the hand.

Yet another challenge thread fails.

 

[pgp_protector]

You're wrong -- as usual.

But this has gone on long enough.

Go ahead and talk to the hand.

So you don't support TEs?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yet another challenge thread fails.

Was there ever any doubt?

AV didn't like his strategy of exploiting other Christians for his own amusement exposed; he needed an excuse to run away, so I courteously offered him one.

And not even so much as a "thank you" from him.

 

[TLK Valentine]

So you don't support TEs?

It would appear that the enemy of his enemy isn't his friend, after all.

 

[Kylie]

The Tilt-a-Whirl,™ a product of intelligent design, uses chaotic motion to perform its function.

Demonstrate how God could have done the same, but didn't.

Why are you asking non-Christians to explain things about your god?