My Ten Tribes Challenge

[AV1611VET]

DNA would certainly be a possible method, but how would we know what the distinctive genetic signals of these "lost tribes" are? If they are lost how do we get a reference sample?

Also if they are "lost" they don't have any coherent identity, so they have been intermarrying with other groups for 2500 years. If there was a genetic signal it would be lost.

(I assume "Asher" and "Zebulun" are two of these "lost tribes".)

It's an atheist nightmare, isn't it?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I am still so confused as to why it's on scientists, or just users on a science forum, to go and find out if a claim from the Bible is true or not.

If you're the one saying that Ten Tribes were real, the onus is on you to find them. No-one else.

 

[Hans Blaster]

It's an atheist nightmare, isn't it?

no

It's got nothing to do with atheism.

I'm not sure what the "nightmare" is. (Unless it is the nightmare of the literalist that must find every insignificant detail of a religious text to be factually accurate or their faith implodes.)

 

[ottawak]

It's an atheist nightmare, isn't it?

No, atheists don't care about whether there were ever ten tribes or not, and proboably don't care very much about what might have become of them if they ever did exist.

 

[sjastro]

It's an atheist nightmare, isn't it?

Get your priorities right.
Atheists have a nightmare for failing to prove the Yara-ma-yha-who does not exist.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Get your priorities right.
Atheists have a nightmare for failing to prove the Yara-ma-yha-who does not exist.

These creature designs from Lucasfilm are getting more and more ridiculous.

 

[sjastro]

These creature designs from Lucasfilm are getting more and more ridiculous.

Archaeologists have discovered indigenous cave art of Yara-ma-yha-who dated 3,000,000 BC.

 

[Lost4words]

Validate the ten lost tribes of Israel with science -- all ten of them.

They all existed because the science of writing has written so, via the Holy Spirit as put down in scripture!

 

[AV1611VET]

They all existed because the science of writing has written so, via the Holy Spirit as put down in scripture!

Now they just need scientific validation, don't they?

 

[Kylie]

If you can't find ten dispersed among the world and living among us for thousands of years, you can't find twelve on a peninsula for forty.

Thus the argument that the Exodus didn't happen because there is no evidence found can take a hike.

Ditto if they do it for Roanoke.

So this is the old "absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence" thing?

What if the evidence SHOULD be there?

Or do you think that a society that depends on slaves can lose its entire workforce and no evidence is left behind?

 

[AV1611VET]

Or do you think that a society that depends on slaves can lose its entire workforce and no evidence is left behind?

Egypt didn't lose its entire workforce.

Genesis 47:19 Wherefore shall we die before thine eyes, both we and our land? buy us and our land for bread, and we and our land will be servants unto Pharaoh: and give us seed, that we may live, and not die, that the land be not desolate.

That seven-year famine was so sore in the land, the Egyptians sold everything they had ... even themselves ... to Phaoroah.

Genesis 47:20 And Joseph bought all the land of Egypt for Pharaoh; for the Egyptians sold every man his field, because the famine prevailed over them: so the land became Pharaoh's.
21 And as for the people, he removed them to cities from one end of the borders of Egypt even to the other end thereof.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Egypt didn't lose its entire workforce.

Genesis 47:19 Wherefore shall we die before thine eyes, both we and our land? buy us and our land for bread, and we and our land will be servants unto Pharaoh: and give us seed, that we may live, and not die, that the land be not desolate.

That seven-year famine was so sore in the land, the Egyptians sold everything they had ... even themselves ... to Phaoroah.

Genesis 47:20 And Joseph bought all the land of Egypt for Pharaoh; for the Egyptians sold every man his field, because the famine prevailed over them: so the land became Pharaoh's.
21 And as for the people, he removed them to cities from one end of the borders of Egypt even to the other end thereof.

You're at the wrong end of the "Israelites in Egypt" story for the massive loss of Egypt's workforce. The departure of the Israelites from Egypt would have caused massive economic damage. Any record of *that* in the Egyptian historical records?

 

[AV1611VET]

The departure of the Israelites from Egypt would have caused massive economic damage.

Why did Pharaoh tell them to hit the road then?

Exodus 11:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Yet will I bring one plague more upon Pharaoh, and upon Egypt; afterwards he will let you go hence: when he shall let you go, he shall surely thrust you out hence altogether.

It wasn't their departure that damaged Egypt; it was the Ten Plagues.

Their departure was the solution -- not the problem.

 

[Kylie]

Egypt didn't lose its entire workforce.

Genesis 47:19 Wherefore shall we die before thine eyes, both we and our land? buy us and our land for bread, and we and our land will be servants unto Pharaoh: and give us seed, that we may live, and not die, that the land be not desolate.

That seven-year famine was so sore in the land, the Egyptians sold everything they had ... even themselves ... to Phaoroah.

Genesis 47:20 And Joseph bought all the land of Egypt for Pharaoh; for the Egyptians sold every man his field, because the famine prevailed over them: so the land became Pharaoh's.
21 And as for the people, he removed them to cities from one end of the borders of Egypt even to the other end thereof.

And is there any record of this outside the Bible? Because we have some pretty good records of the ancient Egyptians. We have the records from the first to the twenty-sixth dynasties.

Ancient Records of Egypt - Wikipedia

There are links at the bottom of that page to free readable copies online. Please, show me where in the records it describes anything like what the Bible claims happened.

And the reliability of the Biblical account is considered by actual experts in the field to be very poor.

The Exodus - Wikipedia

 

[AV1611VET]

And is there any record of this outside the Bible?

Don't know; don't care; don't care to know.

How would that change anything?

Because we have some pretty good records of the ancient Egyptians. We have the records from the first to the twenty-sixth dynasties.

Are you familiar with my heuristics?

If so, I'll bet you know what I'm going to say next, don't you?

 

[Kylie]

Why did Pharaoh tell them to hit the road then?

Exodus 11:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Yet will I bring one plague more upon Pharaoh, and upon Egypt; afterwards he will let you go hence: when he shall let you go, he shall surely thrust you out hence altogether.

It wasn't their departure that damaged Egypt; it was the Ten Plagues.

Their departure was the solution -- not the problem.

He didn't.

That's the problem with assuming that some particular source MUST be correct.

 

[AV1611VET]

He didn't.

I see.

Anything else I can't help you with?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Why did Pharaoh tell them to hit the road then?

'Cause your god was messing with his head?

Exodus 11:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Yet will I bring one plague more upon Pharaoh, and upon Egypt; afterwards he will let you go hence: when he shall let you go, he shall surely thrust you out hence altogether.

It wasn't their departure that damaged Egypt; it was the Ten Plagues.

Their departure was the solution -- not the problem.

Then where is the evidence of *that* in the Egyptian records?

 

[Kylie]

Don't know; don't care; don't care to know.

How would that change anything?

It would show evidence from the real world. Or do you think reality can take a hike if it disagrees with your interpretation of the Bible?

Are you familiar with my heuristics?

If so, I'll bet you know what I'm going to say next, don't you?

Lemme guess: The ancient Egyptian records can take a hike?

I mean, yeah. When it comes to knowing what happened to the ancient Egyptians, there's no point in looking at their actual records. A far more accurate source is something that was written several centuries later and contradicts pretty much all the real world evidence that we have...

 

[Kylie]

I see.

Anything else I can't help you with?

Yes, one question.

Why do you reject evidence from reality?