My Tectonic Plates Challenge

[Martinius]

A table top that matches the curvature of the earth not at all and is so therefore not a valid hypothesis? Curve your table top slightly - then come back and tell me what happens?????

Plus add a few forces that aren't part of a shaking table demonstration. The demo makes a result of plate tectonics (earthquakes) appear to be a cause. This demo proves nothing and shows nothing except the ability for the ignorant to sometimes fool the gullible.

 

[AV1611VET]

Plus add a few forces that aren't part of a shaking table demonstration. The demo makes a result of plate tectonics (earthquakes) appear to be a cause. This demo proves nothing and shows nothing except the ability for the ignorant to sometimes fool the gullible.

Except after awhile, a flat-earther would expect to see the "folds" in the paper create "mountain chains."

The Himalays, the Alps, the Smokies, the Appalachians, etc.

If the paper was cut into the shape of our seven continents, I would assume they would expect to eventually see the same configuration as our earth is today.

 

[TLK Valentine]

It appears this challenge isn't going to get answered, so I'll go ahead and answer it.

Spoiler: answer

I have demonstrated a flat earth.

More than that, AV -- you've demonstrated the utter worthlessness of your challenge threads.

I'd say "proven," but we all already knew that.

 

[Martinius]

Except after awhile, a flat-earther would expect to see the "folds" in the paper create "mountain chains."
...
If the paper was cut into the shape of our seven continents, I would assume they would expect to eventually see the same configuration as our earth is today.

I hope not, as there is no valid comparison with reality. The demo was basically two dimensional with the "application" of only one force. There are other forces to contend with. Also, the historical result of plate tectonics (and future results) are caused by certain forces applied at certain places, in different directions, at certain times. If one created a true model of the processes, predictions could be made which match actual results. IOW, the continents did not just move around randomly, but are the result of a cause and effect scenario. And don't forget that the seven continents are how we see them today; they weren't like that tens of millions of years ago, and won't be the same tens of millions of years in the future.

 

[amanuensis63]

Well, there's 5 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Yes.

That's been brought to our attention many times here, by happy scientists who love talking about how ineffective prayer is.

I have no doubt that prayer for them is ineffective.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I have no doubt that prayer for them is ineffective.

A well designed study will use practitioner groups that are familiar with prayer and pray regularly - priests, nuns, congregants, etc. Efficacy is compared against placebo in various ways.

It seems churlish of the alleged phenomenon to only function when it is not being studied. Claims of such phenomena are characteristic of magical thinking. The results generally suggest that there is no more than a placebo effect - and if the person(s) prayed for are unaware of the prayers, the person(s) praying seem to show the benefit; feeling you are doing good makes you feel better...

 

[AV1611VET]

A well designed study will use practitioner groups that are familiar with prayer and pray regularly - priests, nuns, congregants, etc. Efficacy is compared against placebo in various ways.

It seems churlish of the alleged phenomenon to only function when it is not being studied. Claims of such phenomena are characteristic of magical thinking. The results generally suggest that there is no more than a placebo effect - and if the person(s) prayed for are unaware of the prayers, the person(s) praying seem to show the benefit; feeling you are doing good makes you feel better...

Whoever participated in those studies needs counseling, IMO.

Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

 

[amanuensis63]

Whoever participated in those studies needs counseling, IMO.

Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

But don't you think atheists have a reasonable question? There are people of great faith who pray and get no response from time to time. I believe the common thing said by the minister at times like this is: "God always answers prayers. Sometimes the answer is 'no'."

That's kinda cool, but you can see how an atheist would say that this is nothing more than someone making the claim "unfalsifiable".

In other words, to the atheist they see defensor fides as never having a negative result. In fact there can never be a negative result. It is impossible by any conception. Thus making the claim unfalsifiable.

So is it helpful to tell them that they need "counselling"?

 

[AV1611VET]

But don't you think atheists have a reasonable question?

Yes and no.

Yes, they have a reasonable question because their job is to undermine the Bible.

Thus the question is a reasonable question, in that it gives them something else to sterilize.

Eventually they will use science to question ... and dismiss ... every single jot & tittle of the Scriptures.

No, I don't think it is a reasonable question, in light of the fact that we are casting our pearls before unbelievers.

1 Corinthians 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

Christians who participate in these kinds of scientific tests need counseling.

In my opinion.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Yes, they have a reasonable question because their job is to undermine the Bible.

Not really, no. Most of the content of the Bible is untestable, so is of little direct interest to science, but the testable statements should be fair game. Science attempts to test claims about the physical world to see whether they correspond to observable reality.

Eventually they will use science to question ... and dismiss ... every single jot & tittle of the Scriptures.

No, I don't think it is a reasonable question, in light of the fact that we are casting our pearls before unbelievers.

You can, of course, believe whatever you want, but if you make a testable statement about the physical world, don't be surprised if someone tests it and tells you whether or not it corresponds to reality. The Bible contains lots of testable statements that can be treated as claims about the physical world; in Mythbusters-speak, some have been 'busted' (falsified), some are plausible, and some have been confirmed. Whether or not this undermines the Bible depends on which testable Biblical statements about the physical world you take literally.

Many Christians take the view that some Biblical statements about the physical world (particularly the clearly falsified ones) are/were allegorical or metaphorical, and not intended to be factual statements about the physical world, so the issue of their physical reality doesn't arise. Problem solved (or evaded).

 

[98cwitr]

Wait a sec...you're gonna tell me that there are people that still believe the earth is flat?

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

MOD HAT ON

Small cleanup, ladies and gentlemen. Just mopping up a little spill. Please be civil. Thank you.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[amanuensis63]

Yes and no.

Yes, they have a reasonable question because their job is to undermine the Bible.

MAYBE, just maybe their job isn't to "undermine the Bible" but rather test the claims of the faithful. People of faith often present positive claims that seem to beg non-believers to test them.

Thus the question is a reasonable question, in that it gives them something else to sterilize.

OR maybe there are those out there who simply feel the need of proof. They've been led astray in their lives when they failed to ask for proof. While it says in John 20:29: "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." it may be unto SOME that they believe without seeing, but is this a judgement against Thomas for his need to see?

No, I don't think it is a reasonable question, in light of the fact that we are casting our pearls before unbelievers.

What good are pearls if they cannot be seen by those before whom they are cast?

Christians who participate in these kinds of scientific tests need counseling.

In my opinion.

I believe there is a suggestion in the BIble not to "test" God, surely there are those who, with honest reason, may wish to ask for proof.

Does this mean "proof" is bad? Or is it merely another group of people with slightly different needs from the faithful?

 

[AV1611VET]

Wait a sec...you're gonna tell me that there are people that still believe the earth is flat?

Not me! Not me!

 

[AV1611VET]

Small cleanup, ladies and gentlemen. Just mopping up a little spill. Please be civil. Thank you.

Thanks!

 

[bhsmte]

Wait a sec...you're gonna tell me that there are people that still believe the earth is flat?

Yes and they provide great entertainment.

 

[AV1611VET]

MAYBE, just maybe their job isn't to "undermine the Bible" but rather test the claims of the faithful. People of faith often present positive claims that seem to beg non-believers to test them.

As I said, I would expect a scientist to want to test our faith.

After all, Satan attempted to test Jesus' claims as well.

I would hope though, that Christians would tell them, "No, thanks."

 

[amanuensis63]

As I said, I would expect a scientist to want to test our faith.

After all, Satan attempted to test Jesus' claims as well.

How helpful overall is it to compare honest questioning to the actions of Satan?

I would hope though, that Christians would tell them, "No, thanks."

Perhaps the Christian could say something like: "I understand your need to test this and I hope that God will provide you with the answers you seek." And then show them the verse about Doubting Thomas.

I don't see Thomas's questioning as evil in any way. I think it is perfectly natural thing for humans to ask. Just because Thomas asked didn't mean Thomas was running interference for Satan.

 

[AV1611VET]

How helpful overall is it to compare honest questioning to the actions of Satan?

Please show me one passage of Scripture that has been put through the scientific method and has come out as predicted.