My struggles...

[SwordOfGod]

When you press yourself on trying to resolve the first, you went to an alternative suggesting that a perfect God made a mistake.
That too does not match up; so, where would the miscalculation be?

I was actually being sarcastic, I don't think God made a mistake!

Do you think your situation is so much more difficult than say... a heterosexual that finds their self so yearning for love and to express love while desiring a girl that is willing to reciprocate?

I don't know if u quite get what I'm saying! I'm sure the feelings between my situation and that of the heterosexual are the same with one major difference...

I WILL BE ALONE FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE!!!!

also you seem to believe that homosexuals are not capable of true relationships. That is, relationships that are buond the bounds of mere physical attachements.
Could you please state your biblical evidence for this conviction?

Let us look to the Bible shall we?

It is not good for the man to be alone.

Genesis 2:18

Here we have that God does not wish us to be alone. Perhaps u will argue that this was only meant in the case of a heterosexual relationship because of this verse in the same chapter...

That is why a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, and the two of them become one body.

And yet, this verse is claimed to be evidence of God's will for monogamy, we find later on in the old testament that God doesn't think there is anything particularily wrong with taking more than one wife!


Listen, if you think I can change then tell me what I've done wrong, show me what it is that has prevented me from resolving and peeling back the evil of homosexual thoughts and bring about a rebirth of my true heterosexual desires...

Through God I have broken my sexual addictions

Through God I have built a wonderful and loving relationship with my father

Through God I have ended the relationships that I believed to be unhealthy.

I am grateful that through Exodus International I was able to spot these things that were bad for my carnal and spiritual life. However, I have not experienced the great miracle that they say I should be having about now....

and I honestly don't feel that God cares for me to change, and I honestly don't feel that He wants me to be alone.

 

[Pheehp]

... I feel like I have cancer...

what have they done to you im really sorry, so very sorry that the ones you love and the ones that teach you about life have made you feel like this, shame on them.

you are alive, you know that you're gay and you've got your whole life to live, yet an institution has made you feel as though you'd be better off dead. they say that the crusades were awful but in the past - look whats happening today, its not a war its whispers and looks, its not soemthing you could report on for the news or draw attention to, its scarring and wrong. its bullying. you need help but as has been stated from real psychologists who can help you with self esteem self worth and self love that these ppl have ripped from you. this kind of treatment of ppl makes me so angry its underhanded and cruel. worst is the person its inflicted on believes they are right because they are its teachers and guidance through life.

im sorry if i insult the ones you care for but they are horribly misguided and if they open their eyes one day the guilt they feel will be monstrous. please believe in a sense of self, get to know YOU not what their desires for you are. you're your own person dont let them take that from you too.

hope you feel better

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Hi, Sword of God. I'm very, very sorry to hear of your difficulties, and I hope you find a way through them. It's probably worth remembering that most people, at some time or other in their lives, feel that they are in terrible trouble and that nobody else in the world understands them. I dare say a lot of the people around you at the moment are also feeling they have the worst problems in the world!

Christianity seems to contain quite a range of different opinions, and I'm sure there's room for you in them. You didn't choose to be gay, did you? You were given that nature. And surely God wouldn't punish you for something that's not your fault! Maybe your ideas of what God does scare you, maybe you hear things from people around you that frighten you. Well, remember that at one time in history divorce was a sin that would send you to hell! But the Christian church worked past that, common sense prevailed, and now they think that the Christians of those days were sincere, but misguided. I'm sure, sooner or later, they'll come to think the same about homosexuality.

More importantly, good luck and God bless. I'm sure things will all work out in time.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

I was actually being sarcastic, I don't think God made a mistake!

I don't know if u quite get what I'm saying! I'm sure the feelings between my situation and that of the heterosexual are the same with one major difference...

I WILL BE ALONE FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE!!!!

Well, with that as your conviction, you may just receive what you aim for.

also you seem to believe that homosexuals are not capable of true relationships. That is, relationships that are buond the bounds of mere physical attachements.
Could you please state your biblical evidence for this conviction?

You would do much better in the discussions if you stuck with what was posted and not fabricate strawmen with phrases like "you seem to...".
It would also be wise if a 'conviction' was not painted for me. I am capable of speaking on my own behalf, thank you.

But since you bring up relationships, it would not be reasoned to say that homosexuals are incapable of having a relationship. However, that does not address in the least whether the relationship is either healthy or unhealthy - in alignment with God's will or outside of God's will. Whether or not it has physical content, romantic or lack of either would be a detail issue. But, not necessarily germane to being right or wrong.

Let us look to the Bible shall we?

Genesis 2:18

Here we have that God does not wish us to be alone. Perhaps u will argue that this was only meant in the case of a heterosexual relationship because of this verse in the same chapter...

Actually, this is somewhat a first in seeing someone attempt to declare that particular passage as an absolute application to everyone - in that God desires everyone to be married, in a sexual relationship, or whatever it is you were attempting to claim.

I'm wondering how you can attempt to do so and still reconcile other scripture. Oh, perhaps say...

Matthew 19:11-12
11Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

or

1 Corinthians 7:1-7
1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. 2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

And yet, this verse is claimed to be evidence of God's will for monogamy, we find later on in the old testament that God doesn't think there is anything particularily wrong with taking more than one wife!

Actually, there is more than just the one verse supporting monogamy and all the polygamy arguments reference where a man had decided for their self to have more than one wife or was given other wives due to circumstances. But regardless, both would entail a male and female as opposed to same-gender.

Listen, if you think I can change then tell me what I've done wrong, show me what it is that has prevented me from resolving and peeling back the evil of homosexual thoughts and bring about a rebirth of my true heterosexual desires...

I can tell you that I think your premise is entirely off.

An organization, your parents, me, another person, etc. are not the ones that will be able to change you. It would be about God and His power to deliver us and your heart, your mind, your soul.

Matthew 22:36-38
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment.


Sure, some may have the privilege of being used as God's instrument at times, but all glory belongs to God. A believer is merely a servant doing as he/she is supposed to do.

If I were to give weight to the concept of "out of the mouth, the heart speaks", I would say that the use of sarcasm, the quotation marks, the subtle way the pastor, organization, parents, etc. have been referenced in the previous posts shout out where you may wish to start.

Through God I have broken my sexual addictions

Through God I have built a wonderful and loving relationship with my father

Through God I have ended the relationships that I believed to be unhealthy.

I am grateful that through Exodus International I was able to spot these things that were bad for my carnal and spiritual life.

Wonderful and amen.

The small portion above is the first time in your post where I think I've seen God glorified and the people in your life referenced in a sincerely good light. I may have missed earlier times, but the above does stand out in contrast to the rest and I am encouraged to see it.
Good to see.

However, I have not experienced the great miracle that they say I should be having about now....

Huh? Miracles on a schedule?
Personally, I do not presume to place time limits on God or to abandon a race because I'm not at the finish line yet and do not know how much further I need to run.

What did God give as an answer to Paul when Paul asked three times to take the thorn from his side?

and I honestly don't feel that God cares for me to change, and I honestly don't feel that He wants me to be alone.

Well, that would be basing things on 'feelings' again, wouldn't it?

Do you think it would be best, if one were to have God in charge as opposed to feelings trying to tell God something? Not attempting to declare anything about you there, but the condition does have potential hazards.

God gave us His Son, He give us instruction and for those whom become a new creation, He has given the Spirit. God gives us a great many things that make known His will. Feelings susceptible to being flesh-driven, however, can lead a person down the wrong path or off the straight and narrow path.

 

[tryingtobeagain]

I believ you are right SoG, that God did not intend for people to be alone in this world. I know that homosexuals are capable of loving monogomous relationships the same way that heterosexuals are. That being said I think all people come across the same temptations, and struggles with relationships. I only hope that you take your time with relationships and be true to yourself. Homosexuality occurs in nature (all animals have some homosexuals) and many consider this a population control method (if you are under the belief that God created all species it would have to follow that God created this design). And just so you know, homosexuality was voted out of the APA as a mental disorder because they found that it's not a mental disorder and that it's not something that needs to be cured/helped/or medicated. Thank God for those votes!

 

[Waiting for the Verdict]

I was actually being sarcastic, I don't think God made a mistake!



I don't know if u quite get what I'm saying! I'm sure the feelings between my situation and that of the heterosexual are the same with one major difference...

I WILL BE ALONE FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE!!!!

also you seem to believe that homosexuals are not capable of true relationships. That is, relationships that are buond the bounds of mere physical attachements.
Could you please state your biblical evidence for this conviction?

Let us look to the Bible shall we?


Genesis 2:18

Here we have that God does not wish us to be alone. Perhaps u will argue that this was only meant in the case of a heterosexual relationship because of this verse in the same chapter...



And yet, this verse is claimed to be evidence of God's will for monogamy, we find later on in the old testament that God doesn't think there is anything particularily wrong with taking more than one wife!


Listen, if you think I can change then tell me what I've done wrong, show me what it is that has prevented me from resolving and peeling back the evil of homosexual thoughts and bring about a rebirth of my true heterosexual desires...

Through God I have broken my sexual addictions

Through God I have built a wonderful and loving relationship with my father

Through God I have ended the relationships that I believed to be unhealthy.

I am grateful that through Exodus International I was able to spot these things that were bad for my carnal and spiritual life. However, I have not experienced the great miracle that they say I should be having about now....

and I honestly don't feel that God cares for me to change, and I honestly don't feel that He wants me to be alone.

Dear Sword,
I have not been in reparative therapy, though I do personally know one of the chief reparative therapists in the country. That therapist illegally released my mental health records to get me kicked out of college. Frankly, if I were you, I would not put much stock in reparative therapy.
You have to understand that Christian psychology is often dominated by people who emphasize all biological orientations can be come over if one prays hard enough. Have you heard of nouthetics? That is the lovely theory of Christian psychology that holds that mental illness is a sin - basically for the same reasons as homosexuality (it's a "choice", you weren't "born that way", etc.). I was treated by a nouthetic counselor for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, and I'm still getting over it.
I don't know what to say to you. I'm sure your parents love you and are doing what they think best, but you have to realize that sometimes parents are wrong. You did not choose to be gay any more than I chose to have OCD. I hope you'll be able to see that someday - and please, feel free to PM me at any time.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

SoG,

It sounds like you've made up your mind about this already, even if you don't realise it. And it sounds like you've made a very healthy decision, even if you haven't come to terms with that decision or implemented it yet. Follow your heart...I think you know what is right and wrong for you.

If you want to honour your father and mother, I think you sometimes have to do what you feel is best for yourself. It sounds like your parents definitely want the best for you, but parents aren't always right in what they think is best for their children. They want you to be happy, so do what makes you happy.

Talk to them about it. I don't think what really bothers them is that you're gay. I think what bothers them is that, unfortunately, they've been lied to and told that they've been bad parents and raised you to be faulty and disordered. Like you said, it's as though you have cancer...they think you're sick and it's their fault. Knowing you've hurt your children yourself is probably the worst guilt and pain a parent can go through. For your sake and theirs, try to put their minds at ease.

Like most of us at some point, they don't know what they need...they think they know what they want, which is a straight son. But that is not what they really need or really want...what they need and want is a healthy, happy son. You don't have to become straight to give them that. You just have to let them know you're fine.

Before I came out to my dad, I was worried he would ask if it was his fault, and I didn't think I could honestly say for sure that it wasn't. Fortunately, he didn't ask that because--not being religious himself as I was at the time--he didn't think there was anything wrong with me. Fortunately, I've now realised that there isn't anything wrong with me.

I'm not really sure what you mean by unhealthy relationships, but I seriously doubt they've given you an accurate picture of what an unhealthy relationship is. I imagine it's some clap-trap about not hanging out with females and gay men, because then you'll become more 'masculine', or some such utter trash. Don't let the fact they aren't comfortable with their masculinity or sexuality (and don't have even a basic understanding of either) stop you being friends with whoever you want to be friends with.

Oh, and please don't bother listening to anyone who says, "The Bible says..." unless they end that sentence with a verifiable reference to chapter and verse, and verbatim biblical quote with, if there is any possible doubt, precise translations of every word in the original Hebrew or Greek and references to multiple secular scholarly interpretations. An awful lot of people get away with an awful lot of rubbish by projecting their idiocy onto the Bible.

PM me if you need to talk.

Convivencia!