My Roanoke Challenge

[jayem]

Also: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Exactly.

An example: Homer wrote about a war between the Peloponnesian Greeks and the city of Troy, in Asia Minor. (Herodotus and Eratosthenes wrote historical accounts, too.) There's also archeological evidence that several cities existed in that location, and one has signs of a widespread fire. Based on this evidence, I can confidently believe that this war took place, and that Troy lost. But that doesn't mean I must believe that the god Apollo shot arrows of plague into the Greek camps, and that he guided the poisoned arrow that struck Achilles in his heel.

 

[AV1611VET]

So how do they know?

It would be nice if they told us, wouldn't it?

(You do know why I call these challenge threads, don't you?)

 

[Oafman]

So, is the whole point of this 'challenge' simply to suggest that you shouldn't accept things you haven't seen for yourself? Surely it can't exist just to make such a facile point? Or am I missing the point?

 

[AV1611VET]

So, is the whole point of this 'challenge' simply to suggest that you shouldn't accept things you haven't seen for yourself? Surely it can't exist just to make such a facile point? Or am I missing the point?

The point of this thread is that some people know things ... (not believe -- know) ... based only on what they have read or been taught.

It's basically a rehash of my Mariana Trench Challenge.

 

[crjmurray]

Is there any concrete evidence that hawaii actually exists? - Dale Gribble

 

[Goonie]

Is there any concrete evidence that hawaii actually exists? - Dale Gribble

I agree never been there, observed it, it must not exist.

 

[Loudmouth]

It would be nice if they told us, wouldn't it?

(You do know why I call these challenge threads, don't you?)

You seem to be the only one challenged in these threads. You are the one who brought it up, so why don't you tell us what they know and how they know it.

 

[Loudmouth]

The point of this thread is that some people know things ... (not believe -- know) ... based only on what they have read or been taught.

The difference being that what they were read and taught was based on real observations and archaeological evidence that they could verify if they wanted to.

 

[Lulav]

Tell me how you know Roanoke disappeared.

Roanoke is still there, I visited it just last year. Now the colony that was there, is that what you are speaking of? the people?

 

[AV1611VET]

The difference being that what they were read and taught was based on real observations and archaeological evidence that they could verify if they wanted to.

Yet some don't want to, but still know something.

Can you explain that?

Larry knows the Mariana Trench is 6.85 miles deep, because he measured it himself.
Curly knows the Mariana Trench is 6.85 miles deep, because he believes what he read.
Moe knows the Mariana Trench is 6.85 miles deep, because the paperboy told him, and he believes it.

If all three were tested on the depth of the Mariana Trench, they would pass, wouldn't they?

 

[Loudmouth]

Yet some don't want to, but still know something.

Rather, the people who wrote the book know because they looked at the evidence.

Larry knows the Mariana Trench is 6.85 miles deep, because he measured it himself.
Curly knows the Mariana Trench is 6.85 miles deep, because he believes what he read.
Moe knows the Mariana Trench is 6.85 miles deep, because the paperboy told him, and he believes it.

If all three were tested on the depth of the Mariana Trench, they would pass, wouldn't they?

Which demonstrates that their knowledge is verifiable.

 

[AV1611VET]

Roanoke is still there, I visited it just last year. Now the colony that was there, is that what you are speaking of? the people?

I mean Roanoke.

Population. City limits. Log cabins. Mayor. Schoolhouse at the edge of town. Pewters. Flintlock rifles. Dogs. Cats. Stocks.

The whole enchilada.

 

[AV1611VET]

Rather, the people who wrote the book know because they looked at the evidence.

I disagree with that.

King James* doesn't traipse around the world verifying facts himself.

* James McGraw and his partner John Hill.

 

[Loudmouth]

I disagree with that.

King James* doesn't traipse around the world verifying facts himself.

* James McGraw and his partner John Hill.

So the scientists who have reported on the archaeological finds at Roanoke just made it up?

 

[Lulav]

I mean Roanoke.

Population. City limits. Log cabins. Mayor. Schoolhouse at the edge of town. Pewters. Flintlock rifles. Dogs. Cats. Stocks.

The whole enchilada.

I see you aren't serious about true dialogue, I will bow out. (I don't think they served enchilada's there, too far east)

 

[AV1611VET]

I see you aren't serious about true dialogue,

People want to ask questions, rather than answer the OP.

That doesn't come across as rude to you?

Why do you think I call these things challenges?

The challenge is to get an Internet scientist to do something weird:

Convey an answer to a question as it was written.

 

[Loudmouth]

People want to ask questions, rather than answer the OP.

That doesn't come across as rude to you?

It comes across as ironic.

If you don't count scientists reporting first hand accounts of archaeological evidence as knowledge, then I would really have to wonder what you would count as knowledge.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

People want to ask questions, rather than answer the OP.

That doesn't come across as rude to you?

Why do you think I call these things challenges?

The challenge is to get an Internet scientist to do something weird:

Convey an answer to a question as it was written.

What was wrong with this answer?

We have records of a colony being chartered. We have records of the colony not being there later.

 

[quatona]

People want to ask questions, rather than answer the OP.

That doesn't come across as rude to you?

Why do you think I call these things challenges?

The challenge is to get an Internet scientist to do something weird:

Convey an answer to a question as it was written.

And you think asking loaded questions is an appropriate tool for that task?

 

[AV1611VET]

What was wrong with this answer?

As far as I'm concerned, Murray answered it.

Albeit I did notice he left wiggle room for how he worded it.

He didn't say it "disappeared."

Instead, he said it "wasn't there later."

Typical scientific public relations.