My Raisin Challenge

[AV1611VET]

God creates a raisin ex materia, along with a note that the raisin was spoken into existence instantly.

Given that a raisin is an aged grape, is He being deceptive?

 

[Loudmouth]

God creates a raisin ex materia, along with a note that the raisin was spoken into existence instantly.

Given that a raisin is an aged grape, is He being deceptive?

Since the raisin was never created from the fixation of carbon from the atmosphere through the process of photosynthesis, then there is no expectation that the raisin should have the same 99:1 mixture of 12C:13C found in the atmosphere. If God did make the raisin with that mixture, it would be creating a false history of carbon fixation that an raisin just doesn't need in order to be a raisin.

 

[AV1611VET]

Since the raisin was never created from the fixation of carbon from the atmosphere through the process of photosynthesis, then there is no expectation that the raisin should have the same 99:1 mixture of 12C:13C found in the atmosphere.

Do you know the difference between ex materia and ex nihilo?

 

[Loudmouth]

Do you know the difference between ex materia and ex nihilo?

"In theology, the common phrase creatio ex nihilo ("creation out of nothing"), contrasts with creatio ex materia (creation out of some pre-existent, eternal matter) and with creatio ex deo (creation out of the being of God)."
Ex nihilo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why would the pre-existent, eternal matter have the same 12C/13C as our atmosphere? Would the ex materia raisin have the slight preference for 12C as if it had a history of photosynthesis?

http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/101/1/37.full.pdf

The reason that we are able to track the amount of carbon that fossil fuel use puts in the atmosphere is that photosynthesis makes plants/algae have a higher concentration of 12C than the atmosphere. Would raisins made ex materia have an increase in 12C as if they went through a history of photosynthesis?

 

[AV1611VET]

"In theology, the common phrase creatio ex nihilo ("creation out of nothing"), contrasts with creatio ex materia (creation out of some pre-existent, eternal matter) and with creatio ex deo (creation out of the being of God)."
Ex nihilo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why would the pre-existent, eternal matter have the same 12C/13C as our atmosphere? Would the ex materia raisin have the slight preference for 12C as if it had a history of photosynthesis?

http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/101/1/37.full.pdf

The reason that we are able to track the amount of carbon that fossil fuel use puts in the atmosphere is that photosynthesis makes plants/algae have a higher concentration of 12C than the atmosphere. Would raisins made ex materia have an increase in 12C as if they went through a history of photosynthesis?

I take it you can't answer my challenge because your science is getting in the way?

I might take this challenge to church Sunday and ask the kids in the nursery and see if they can answer it.

 

[Loudmouth]

I take it you can't answer my challenge because your science is getting in the way?

I might take this challenge to church Sunday and ask the kids in the nursery and see if they can answer it.

I just blew your challenge out of the water. I am showing you a test that can be used to differentiate between an ex materia raisin and a raisin that came about through natural processes through time. Or are you saying that God would put a false history into the raisin, just to fool us?

 

[AV1611VET]

I just blew your challenge out of the water. I am showing you a test that can be used to differentiate between an ex materia raisin and a raisin that came about through natural processes through time. Or are you saying that God would put a false history into the raisin, just to fool us?

You're lucky someone doesn't eat it before you find a clipboard.

 

[Loudmouth]

You're lucky someone doesn't eat it before you find a clipboard.

No comment on the test I have described?

 

[crjmurray]

THUNDERDOME


Wait what? It's over already? Good lord that was brutal...go Loudmouth I guess. Intense man.

 

[AV1611VET]

THUNDERDOME


Wait what? It's over already? Good lord that was brutal...go Loudmouth I guess. Intense man.

I have no doubt that while scientists are running around like chickens with their heads cut off looking for the right calibrated equipment to satanalyze this raisin ... looking for just one atom so they can accuse God of being deceptive ... any common person would just eat the thing and be done with it.

In addition, other scientists would probably be crawling through Wrong's Concordance like ants on an ice cream cone, looking for one single word that they can change to make it look like the note didn't say what it said, so they can come back with, "Yea, hath God said?"

 

[Strathos]

AV's attempts to save face after having his entire premise deconstructed are pretty amusing.

 

[Davian]

AV's attempts to save face after having his entire premise deconstructed are pretty amusing.

But, soon after, he will carry on as if nothing happened.

 

[pgp_protector]

AV's attempts to save face after having his entire premise deconstructed are pretty amusing.

No, I don't think amusing is the word I'd use.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

A closet Morrisinite, no not Jim Morrison, or Jim Jones -- Dr. John Morris.

Oink.

 

[Loudmouth]

I have no doubt that while scientists are running around like chickens with their heads cut off looking for the right calibrated equipment to satanalyze this raisin ...

Scientists have had well calibrated mass spectrometers for decades now. Measuring the carbon isotope makeup of a raisin is very straightforward.

looking for just one atom so they can accuse God of being deceptive ... any common person would just eat the thing and be done with it.

I thought the challenge was to determine if God was being deceptive or not.

In addition, other scientists would probably be crawling through Wrong's Concordance like ants on an ice cream cone, looking for one single word that they can change to make it look like the note didn't say what it said, so they can come back with, "Yea, hath God said?"

It isn't the scientists who insist on an interpretation of the Bible that contradicts the Creation.

 

[PsychoSarah]

How many of AV's challenges have involved raisins by now?

Also, AV refused my card challenge, and until he participates, all his challenges are null.

 

[Split Rock]

God creates a raisin ex materia, along with a note that the raisin was spoken into existence instantly.

Given that a raisin is an aged grape, is He being deceptive?

I have a counter question:

God creates a tinker toy set ex materia from wood he cut from trees he grew ex nihilo on a planet he created ex deo (just learned that one). He also makes a note that says he did so and sticks it inside the tinker toy box.

Given that the box says, "Made in China" on it, is HE being deceptive?

 

[AV1611VET]

I have a counter question:

God creates a tinker toy set ex materia from wood he cut from trees he grew ex nihilo on a planet he created ex deo (just learned that one). He also makes a note that says he did so and sticks it inside the tinker toy box.

Given that the box says, "Made in China" on it, is HE being deceptive?

No.

 

[AV1611VET]

How many of AV's challenges have involved raisins by now?

Two, if my memory serves me correctly.

 

[Jimmy D]

Post count goes up.

'Likes' ratio goes down.