My Raisin Bread Challenge

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

LOL

If you're this desperate, this challenge isn't for you.

No, it's a pertinent line of questioning. This sort of challenge, and many others of yours fall because people ask you questions you obviously did not think about.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Just as "deceptive" as raisin bread … right?

This is a brand new car, straight from the factory

Makes perfect sense.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I'd rather keep my mouth shut and let people think I'm ignorant than open it and remove all doubt.

That is demonstrably false.

 

[DogmaHunter]

LOL

If you're this desperate, this challenge isn't for you.

In situations where magical events appear to be happening, one has to ask oneself a question... what is more likely?

1. That you are mistaken / being decieved
or
2. That the laws of nature have been violated / suspended (in your favor)

 

[AV1611VET]

This is a brand new car, straight from the factory.

Nice.

Do you know the difference between ex nihilo and ex materia?

 

[VirOptimus]

-snip-

As the saying goes:

I'd rather keep my mouth shut and let people think I'm ignorant than open it and remove all doubt.

.... this is like, irony cubed!

 

[VirOptimus]

Then where did it come from?

Two seconds ago there's no raisin bread.

Two seconds later there's raisin bread, and the amount of mass/energy in the universe has been raised accordingly.

How did that happen by deception?

Ooo oo I know, I know!

It didnt happen and have never happened.

Prove me wrong.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Nice.

Do you know the difference between ex nihilo and ex materia?

It doesn't matter.

What matters is the difference between "new" and "old".
And if you create something (nihilo or otherwise) that looks old, but claim it to be new, then you are being deceptive.

Worse even, in this case, it doesn't even merely look old... It actually IS old by every measureable standard.

 

[AV1611VET]

It doesn't matter.

Yes, it does matter.

It matters quite a bit.

For one thing, I expressly stipulated ex nihilo, not ex materia.

This means that your car cannot be used, even to ridicule this challenge.

Second of all, if you say that's being deceptive, then you have to explain how a loaf of raisin bread suddenly appeared deceptively.

Thirdly, how can a deception raise the level of mass/energy in the universe, contrary to the First Law of Thermodynamics?

Fourthly, Occam's Razor asks you to accept the OP as written, else this thread will just bloat with repetition.

It's time to answer my challenge as it was written; don't you think?

 

[VirOptimus]

Yes, it does matter.

It matters quite a bit.

For one thing, I expressly stipulated ex nihilo, not ex materia.

This means that your car cannot be used, even to ridicule this challenge.

Second of all, if you say that's being deceptive, then you have to explain how a loaf of raisin bread suddenly appeared deceptively.

Thirdly, how can a deception raise the level of mass/energy in the universe, contrary to the First Law of Thermodynamics?

Fourthly, Occam's Razor asks you to accept the OP as written, else this thread will just bloat with repetition.

It's time to answer my challenge as it was written; don't you think?

Will you answer the question who will win in a fight, Darth Vader vs. Batman?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Will you answer the question who will win in a fight, Darth Vader vs. Batman?

That depends, how much time and information of Darth Vader does Batman have?

 

[Kylie]

They would be wrong, wouldn't they?

Why would they be wrong?

 

[Kylie]

Respect the OP please.

It's more than a claim.

To someone who wasn't there when you made it, all they have is a claim, either made by you or by someone else.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yes, it does matter.

It matters quite a bit.

For one thing, I expressly stipulated ex nihilo, not ex materia.

Again, it is irrelevant to your question, which is if you are being deceptive.
The answer is yes - regardless if your creation process was ex materia or through magic... errrr, sorry, ex nihilo.

When you create something, by whatever means, and go out of your way to make it seem old by just about any measureable standard, then you are being deceptive.

Thirdly, how can a deception raise the level of mass/energy in the universe, contrary to the First Law of Thermodynamics?

In your imagination.

Fourthly, Occam's Razor asks you to accept the OP as written, else this thread will just bloat with repetition.

Occam's razor is about the most plausible explanation being the one that requires the least amount of assumptions.

It's time to answer my challenge as it was written; don't you think?

I already did.
You just don't like the answer.

 

[AV1611VET]

Again, it is irrelevant to your question, which is if you are being deceptive.
The answer is yes -

Then how would you create a loaf of raisin bread ex nihilo, without the element of deception?

(Please answer this.)

 

[Kylie]

Then how would you create a loaf of raisin bread ex nihilo, without the element of deception?

(Please answer this.)

Given that any loaf of raisin bread would speak of events that did not happen - the drying of the grapes to make raisins, for instance - I would say that the only way to do it without being deceptive is to make sure that the raisins do not appear to be real raisins, for a start. Because if they were real raisins, then that would lead people to believe that a three day long event that appeared to have happened did NOT actually happen.

And, of course, causing people to believe that something happened when that thing did not happen is being deceptive, isn't it?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Then how would you create a loaf of raisin bread ex nihilo, without the element of deception?

(Please answer this.)

I wouldn't know how to do the physically impossible.

 

[AV1611VET]

Given that any loaf of raisin bread would speak of events that did not happen - the drying of the grapes to make raisins, for instance - I would say that the only way to do it without being deceptive is to make sure that the raisins do not appear to be real raisins, for a start. Because if they were real raisins, then that would lead people to believe that a three day long event that appeared to have happened did NOT actually happen.

So they would be wrong, but it would be my fault … right?

Would your logic apply to a hard-boiled egg created ex nihilo as well? a tractor? a car? a city? a planet?

 

[AV1611VET]

I wouldn't know how to do the physically impossible.

But you sure know how to accuse an innocent person of being deceptive, don't you?

Do you realize a child would just eat the thing and not care?

What if I created truckloads of raisin bread ex nihilo (including the trucks) and gave them to starving children in India?

Would you order a halt to my "shenanigans"?

 

[DogmaHunter]

So they would be wrong, but it would be my fault … right?

Yes.

Would your logic apply to a hard-boiled egg created ex nihilo as well? a tractor? a car? a city? a planet?

Yes.