My Raisin Bread Challenge

[46AND2]

Do you remember these two posts?

Yes, and I asked you AFTER that how that is not fudging. I'll ask it again, how is picking whichever average fits (and discarding others) not inherently dishonest?

 

[CabVet]

AV, you still haven't answered me this though, do you think God created Adam with a belly button? Cavities in his teeth? Bone joints with signs of wear and tear? Back aches? "Used" liver? In other words, do you think that Adam's 20 year old body looked exactly like a 20 year old body of any person today? Or was it a "new" and perfect body? I mean, new teeth, new bones, etc.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, and I asked you AFTER that how that is not fudging. I'll ask it again, how is picking whichever average fits (and discarding others) not inherently dishonest?

Sorry, 46, I've already lost interest in this thread.

Usually one like this has a shelf life of about a half hour, then it goes stale rather quickly.

I plan to use it to QV people to, when I see them accusing God of being deceptive.

Accusing God of being deceptive, but not accusing me of being deceptive when I hypothetically do basically the same thing, tells me someone is confused.

In any event, I'm gong to read-only mode here.

 

[Loudmouth]

I plan to use it to QV people to, when I see them accusing God of being deceptive.

By pushing YEC in the face of overwhelming evidence for a 4.5 billion year history, who is the one doing the deceiving?

 

[CabVet]

Accusing God of being deceptive, but not accusing me of being deceptive when I hypothetically do basically the same thing, tells me someone is confused.

Your question was wrong. If you want people to say "YES" to your "being deceptive" question, your challenge should be like this:

I created, 5 minutes ago, a raising bread that looks, feels, tastes and smells like it is a week old. I tell everyone the bread is 5 minutes old. Am I being deceptive?

Everyone will answer YES to that question. Even though your bread actually is 5 minutes old, the deception lies in the fact that you deliberately made it look older than you claim it is.

 

[46AND2]

Sorry, 46, I've already lost interest in this thread.

Usually one like this has a shelf life of about a half hour, then it goes stale rather quickly.

I plan to use it to QV people to, when I see them accusing God of being deceptive.

Accusing God of being deceptive, but not accusing me of being deceptive when I hypothetically do basically the same thing, tells me someone is confused.

In any event, I'm gong to read-only mode here.

Suit yourself. Convenient timing, but it is your prerogative, of course. Happy reading.

 

[Split Rock]

Sorry, 46, I've already lost interest in this thread.

Usually one like this has a shelf life of about a half hour, then it goes stale rather quickly.

I plan to use it to QV people to, when I see them accusing God of being deceptive.

Accusing God of being deceptive, but not accusing me of being deceptive when I hypothetically do basically the same thing, tells me someone is confused.

In any event, I'm gong to read-only mode here.

The usual process.... you get bored really fast when people don't respond the way you would like them to. Even if they are right and you are wrong.

Bottom line: Embedded Age requires no embedded history. If there is history going beyond the creation date, then there is no embedded age. The earth is a case in point.

Go ahead and QV that to others here.

 

[pgp_protector]

Sorry, 46, I've already lost interest in this thread.

Usually one like this has a shelf life of about a half hour, then it goes stale rather quickly.

Don't worry, it won't be long tell you create yet another version of this tired old question.

I plan to use it to QV people to, when I see them accusing God of being deceptive.

Accusing God of being deceptive, but not accusing me of being deceptive when I hypothetically do basically the same thing, tells me someone is confused.

Amazing

In any event, I'm gong to read-only mode here.

Heard that one before.

 

[Jamin4422]

AV, you still haven't answered me this though, do you think God created Adam with a belly button? Cavities in his teeth?

Science can answer this one. Because science clearly says that Adam had a belly button. Francis Collins says: "Adam was the infusion of the soul, of the moral law, free will and the fall. These are critical to our understanding of God's character and our own." Was Adam in the Bible a historic figure? According to Collins you can defend either way. From my extensive study of the Bible and ancient history I believe Adam was a real person. But that does not really matter when you look at the transition mankind went though at the time.

Science tells us that the real beginning of disease was when man began to build cities. Back when man was a hunter gather there was not nearly as much disease. Disease came with the moral decline.

 

[CabVet]

Science can answer this one. Because science clearly says that Adam had a belly button. Francis Collins says: "Adam was the infusion of the soul, of the moral law, free will and the fall. These are critical to our understanding of God's character and our own." Was Adam in the Bible a historic figure? According to Collins you can defend either way. From my extensive study of the Bible and ancient history I believe Adam was a real person. But that does not really matter when you look at the transition mankind went though at the time.

Science tells us that the real beginning of disease was when man began to build cities. Back when man was a hunter gather there was not nearly as much disease. Disease came with the moral decline.

So that we are perfectly clear, what you are saying is that Adam was in the womb of a woman and was connected to her through an umbilical cord, that is why he had a belly button, right?

Disease being spread in cities has nothing to do with "moral decline" and everything to do with population densities.

 

[Jamin4422]

So that we are perfectly clear, what you are saying is that Adam was in the womb of a woman and was connected to her through an umbilical cord, that is why he had a belly button, right?

Yes, But I am not so sure that Eve had a belly button because we are told that God made Eve from Adams rib. That means that Eve had the same MtDNA as Adams mother, aunt or sister. In the case of Abraham, Sarah was his sister: "the daughter of my father but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife". But they did not share the same MtDNA.

Anyways, the point is that I do not question what science has to say in the arena of population genetics. The Bible has lots to say about the generations. So the study of population genetics can clearly help us to understand our Bible. Yes some of the old understandings have been shown not to be true. That is what you expect when new information comes along.

Don't allow it to throw you off that I try to figure out how it COULD of happened. The whole point is that it could have. Even if we can not figure out all the details on how it did happen. There is a LOT in Science and History that we do not understand and we are always searching for better understanding.

 

[Jamin4422]

Disease being spread in cities has nothing to do with "moral decline" and everything to do with population densities.

Actually it does. The VERY FIRST public building was little more then a brothel as far as I am concerned. There are still some like them in India today.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Göbekli Tepe was a temple with prostituted or perhaps what people like Martin Sheen would call a goddess.There is a lot of stuff in the Bible about how they were suppose to stay away from those places.
[/FONT]​

 

[And-U-Say]

I create a loaf of raisin bread ex nihilo.

Am I being deceptive? if so, how?

You cannot be deceptive until you make a claim. What do you claim about that raison bread?

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Actually it does. The VERY FIRST public building was little more then a brothel as far as I am concerned. There are still some like them in India today.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Göbekli Tepe was a temple with prostituted or perhaps what people like Martin Sheen would call a goddess.There is a lot of stuff in the Bible about how they were suppose to stay away from those places.
[/FONT]​

I don't understand what the VERY FIRST brothel has to do with disease spread NOW. Unless you're saying that our hospitals, courts, and other government buildings are brothels?

 

[TheBear]

AV I have a webcam and fifteen loaves of raisin bread. Let's do this.

Holly molly! You're serious, aren't you?

Let's go, AV. Step up! I wanna see this!!!

 

[CabVet]

Yes, But I am not so sure that Eve had a belly button because we are told that God made Eve from Adams rib.

God also says he made Adam from dust of the ground, and that didn't stop you from saying he had a belly button, what is the difference?

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

 

[CabVet]

Actually it does. The VERY FIRST public building was little more then a brothel as far as I am concerned. There are still some like them in India today. Göbekli Tepe was a temple with prostituted or perhaps what people like Martin Sheen would call a goddess.There is a lot of stuff in the Bible about how they were suppose to stay away from those places.

Oh, so you don't really mean "diseases", do you? You actually mean sexually transmitted diseases...

 

[Jamin4422]

I don't understand what the VERY FIRST brothel has to do with disease spread NOW.

STD exist. Yes we have more drugs now. Back when I was in High School there use to be lots of stories of people who died from sexually transmitted diseases. My question to you is do you really think there were no STD's 10,000 years ago? Then why are there so many warnings in the Bible to stay away from those women and those kind of places?

 

[Jamin4422]

Oh, so you don't really mean "diseases", do you? You actually mean sexually transmitted diseases...

I tend to believe we should follow the Bible. For me the diet prescribed by Moses looks very much like the diet prescribed by the American Heart Association. If you want good heath then you need to eat right and do what the Bible says to do. If you do not follow the Bible then do not expect to live as long and do not expect to be as healthy as you would or you could be. People say we do not need to follow the Bible. Yet they are dropping like flies from sickness and disease.

 

[Jamin4422]

God also says he made Adam from dust of the ground, and that didn't stop you from saying he had a belly button, what is the difference?

Again your argument is with science not the Bible. Because the dust of the ground is talking about the elements that makes up man. I for one love the poetry in the Bible. I would not be willing to change the translation to make it easier for people like you to understand. That would no longer be a translation, that would be a paraphrase or a commentary.