I would so very much like to start off by saying that I have only the utmost respect and appreciation for the Revival, Charismatic, Pentecostal, and Baptist paths to Christ (I do not like to call them Denomination, because they all are truly paths to Christ, and I would like to address them as so), I consider them my Brothers and Sisters in Christ always.
But as it always will be, I will agree with some of their teaching and disagree with others, because we have taken different paths to our Lord and Savor.
I would like to say that I have gained a fuller and more appreciable stance now that I see from where you are coming, and hopefully this will lead to a better and more enjoyable discussion for both of us. Thank you for sharing this vital part of your history with me.
The Holy Spirit works through people's words all the time. I agree that many people believe they felt "touched" by God. But when it comes to alter calls for instance, it is usually the speaker's words that stir them and convince them.
I would like to say, that from my own experience with alter calls, it has to be a bit more then just the Pastor that excites and moves them. Not to say that the pastor does not add to the moment, but then again, if the pastor did not, then they are not very good at Leading their flock.
How often do Christians pray that God will "give them the right words"? How many people are challenged and encouraged by the words of others?
All the time, But words fade, and something more must replace them.
Although I agree with you to a strong extent here, I also admit that all we can do is plant that seed, and if it grows weeds, or flowers, we can not control.
I pray all the time that I will have the right words, but not to convert, but to guide. If I could claim I converted someone, then my heart would break, for their faith, is based on my skill as an orator, and sadly, I am only a human.
My Goal is only to lead to Christ, not to Follow Me, I am but a man, and can offer nothing, it is Christ that matters, he is my Teacher, my Lord, and Savor.
As for the HS entering people. That won't happen unless they give themselves over to God. They may be stirred by the HS, but it is more likely they will be stirred by the words of the speaker or the music. I believe music and well spoken words can stir your emotions. I think that is one thing people confuse for the HS quite a lot.
I must ask then, what brings someone into a Church to be guided my the Music and Words?
God First must touch their heart, and draw them to his people. I have had the awesome opportunity to talk with a Poster called Reformationist, who has given me a far greater insight into some of the more gentile workings of God and life, then I expected and his words struck true.
Who among us would give up their sin, to follow a life of Christ unless something was Touched inside them?
No one would, Imagine I really and getting tired of having sex, and drinking, and lying, I mean, I would like to just dedicate my life in a different direction and follow someone greater then myself no one would say this, unless something within them (or beyond them) stirred this.
I think words can sway. Words plant seeds. You may not be swayed at the time they are spoken but when you think about them they have an effect later. Seeds can sprout weeds or they can bring forth fruit. Things written by others in books have an effect.
What brings you to those books, or those people that plant the seeds of God or Destruction? Do we just do this on our own? Or do we accept that there is something beyond us moving us in directions, or is it just dumb luck and happenstance?
I mean, something inside you brought you here, to learn, to find someone that may be able to give you the answers you seek, was that simply your voice? Or was that more? Maybe something deeper, something almost primal in you, that you cant explain where it is from, but it is there, seeming to Tug at you, to guide you. Now I am not to say that is the case, I could be wrong, you could have easily come here of your own accord, that your logic and your own voice lead you here. I do not try to make these assumptions, because I know that I do not know.
There are many ways God can bring you to him. You gave some examples of how you yourself came to God. But I would think that people's words, things you read and that sort of thing, guided you to that point in your life.
If you told me 5 years ago, that I would be studying Apologetics and Seeking to Help answers difficult questions people have about Christianity to help guide them to Christ, I would have laughed in your face.
No words would sway me, and many priests would not talk with me, because I studied the counters, I read all the stuff about how God was false, or impotent, it made me feel powerful and defiant.
I never lost the irony that I spent most of my Life studying why Christianity was False, and somehow ended up reading apologetics and defending Christ, and now answering questions by Seekers to Help Guide them.
Really just the lack of God working in my life and those around me. Discovering the hard way, that what I thought was God's voice was really just mine and not God's at all. Realising that what I thought was the Holy Spirit touching me in church was really just the music stirring me and the atmosphere of all those people together in one small place. Not seeing biblical promises forfilled. Seeing all the excuses Christians made for all that was wrong with the world...
I see then it was something Very REAL to you, something you could see, and feel first hand in your life.
That's just some of the things that come to mind right now. No, no one convinced me to stop being a Christian, but words do have a lot of power. Words have certainly cast doubt on my beliefs over the years. Words have convinced me further that I was right to be sceptical of Christianity. I see Christians pulling out of the faith and many of them have given credit to (or blamed) the Internet for being a key part of their deconversion. Information can kill or strengthen your faith. Information you would never have got in your normal life is available now that never was before. I fully believe that we will see more and more people leave the faith because of the Internet.
I have seen of those that do return however, being of a stronger stock, a better, and more resilient and determined breed.
For some, as you put, Living In a Bubble, can never go back to that Safe Area so as such, they need to face the world and all its issues head on, and for many, they end up on a different Path, and that Path might reward them now with a greater and fuller comprehension of what is they believe, that they no longer drink Milk, But Eat the Solid Food of God.
I'm not sure whether I am willing to post my story here on this site. For one thing I do not want any Christian to have seeds of doubt planted in their faith, because of my story. Many Christians will identify with it.
Another time for that, first, let us take some time, to deal with some of your issue, or major points of concern, maybe we can come to an understanding, and you might find that it is not Christianity that is the problem, but the path you had been walking.
I think you have some good points there and you are probably right. But that was not what I have been taught. Throughout my life all the teachings I have got are that it is just plain wrong to judge. That if you judge then you are a hypocrite. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." you know what I'm saying? As long as we have sin we have no right to judge others. That's what I was taught all through my life.
It is not our place to Condemn, we are not God.
Let he who is sinless cast the first stone. You judge another, and by that same measure you too will be judged. If you condemn a Sinner, when you are one, you Condemn yourself. If you forgive a Sinner when you are one, You forgive yourself.
For every Measure you measure against another, shall be measured to you. This is not to say you can not Judge, but you need to be VERY careful on how you judge, and what measure you use to judge, for you will be held to the same.
We are to Rebuke, Correct, and Teach each other, How can I do that if I can not Judge your Words, and Actions?
I just need to be very careful on what I judge, and how I judge another, knowing full well, I too am being Judged by that same measure.
I've been involved mainly in Baptist and Pentecostal churches. Perhaps that has something to do with it?
They are and can be wonderful people, but as I said, That might not be the Path you need to travel any more, you might need to follow a new path with a different level of Spiritual Nourishment.
Anyway, I'm not trying to argue with you here. Just saying what teachings I've come across and what I always saw the scripture as saying.
Nothing you have said to me so far is an argument, and I welcome your feed back, and feelings.
I hope I have answered some questions for you, and given you insight or some things to think about.
Maybe if you asked me a question that is weighing heavy on you, we could discuss it maybe open some wonderful opportunities for us both to Grow.
God Bless
Key
p.s. Sorry for the Long Post
