My Question

[Soyeong]

There seems to be an ongoing debate about which day the sabbath is. I'm told it is Sunday, and then when I go do research, a good majority of it says Saturday. Now I'm having question marks bouncing around my head because I don't know whos right and whos wrong. If Jesus took the law with him to the cross, wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Or actually no wait... If the entire 10 commandments still apply to Christians, then why is the sabbath still Saturday? Isn't it Sunday? I am literally confused.

The Israelites received a double portion of mana for the 7th day for 40 years in the wilderness, so they knew on which day God rested, they have been keeping it ever since, and the day that they have been keeping corresponds to Friday at sundown to Saturday at sundown.

Jesus did not take any laws with him to the cross. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that he gave himself to free us from any laws, but in order to redeem us from all Lawlessness. In regard to Colossians 2:14, whenever someone was crucified, the people would write out a sign that listed the charges that were against them and nail it to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed (Matthew 27:37). This served as a perfect analogy for the list of our violations of God's Law being nailed to the cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sin, but has nothing to do with ending any of God's Laws, especially because they are all eternal (Psalms 119:160).

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Romans 14 NKJV
14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; " and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

As you can see the passage mentions eating and days. Nowhere does is specifically say fasting, but certainly, that can also apply. If you want to be specific it's about eating only vegetables which some people may view as vegetarianism. The point of the passage is about not judging or disputing doubtful things in regards to eating and days.

Matthew 22:37-40 NKJV
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

I think most of us here are using the Bible (I am using the New King James version) so I'm not sure why you keep telling us it is also in the Torah. Obviously there will be some cross over, but I don't see how that is relevant to the discussion.

Because then, Jews fasted twice per week. Some would eat meat while other would not on those days. It is about fasting.

Yeshua taught His Father's Torah. This was not something new, it is in Deuteronomy and in Leviticus.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

im not asking for opinions, im asking for the truth. And besides thats most likely what god wants us to do, ask questions!

But WHO does He want YOU to seek the TRUTH from ? (not from people)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But then if we're still obliged to obey the 10 commandments (Majority of people think that) which ones do we keep? If the sabbath is still included, then why aren't Christians doing it? Explain this to me.

Tradition over-ruled Yahuweh's Instructions/TORAH. (not good, but Yahuweh knew it would happen)

 

[BobRyan]

Because then, Jews fasted twice per week. Some would eat meat while other would not on those days. It is about fasting.

Yeshua taught His Father's Torah. This was not something new, it is in Deuteronomy and in Leviticus.

there was no way for Jews to be vegetarian, their religious service "such as Passover" required meat eating. The only ones with a "vegetarian" option were gentiles.

 

[SkyWriting]

There seems to be an ongoing debate about which day the sabbath is. I'm told it is Sunday, and then when I go do research, a good majority of it says Saturday. Now I'm having question marks bouncing around my head because I don't know whos right and whos wrong. If Jesus took the law with him to the cross, wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Or actually no wait... If the entire 10 commandments still apply to Christians, then why is the sabbath still Saturday? Isn't it Sunday? I am literally confused.

Under the New Covenant, Jesus is the Sabbath, not a particular day.

 

[BobRyan]

Under the New Covenant, Jesus is the Sabbath, not a particular day.

Interesting suggestion...

But what does the Bible say??

For example where in the actual New Covenant Jer 31:31-34 does it say that?
(Or Heb 8:6-12 if you prefer).

Every time you see "Sabbath" in the NT book of Acts - the reference is to the 7th day of the week. Did Luke make a mistake?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

there was no way for Jews to be vegetarian, their religious service "such as Passover" required meat eating. The only ones with a "vegetarian" option were gentiles.

I never said they were vegetarian, I said they would not eat meat WHEN THEY WERE FASTING. Some taking the nazarite vow were vegetarian during their vow.

 

[BobRyan]

I never said they were vegetarian, I said they would not eat meat WHEN THEY WERE FASTING.

err... umm... but they would eat "vegetables while fasting"? Is there a fast described in the Bible in which one eats vegetables all during the fast? If so... I missed that text.

Is there are "while fasting" statement in Rom 14??

Some taking the nazarite vow were vegetarian during their vow.

Nothing in Romans 14 about nazarite vows... just vegetarian... Interesting then that those under a Nazarite vow could not celebrate passover in that case.

Rom 14 says "weak in the faith" and not "nazarite vow"
1 Cor 8 also mentions the same "weak in the faith" and explains it is specific to gentiles that do not eat meat because they fear it has been sacrificed to idols.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

err... umm... but they would eat "vegetables while fasting"? Is there a fast described in the Bible in which one eats vegetables all during the fast? If so... I missed that text.

Is there are "while fasting" statement in Rom 14??

Nothing in Romans 14 about nazarite vows... just vegetarian... Interesting then that those under a Nazarite vow could not celebrate passover in that case.

Rom 14 says "weak in the faith" and not "nazarite vow"
1 Cor 8 also mentions the same "weak in the faith" and explains it is specific to gentiles that do not eat meat because they fear it has been sacrificed to idols.

I never said it was a nazirite vow in Rom 14. YOU said Jews can never be vegetarian...so I gave you an example where that is not true.

 

[godenver1]

There seems to be an ongoing debate about which day the sabbath is. I'm told it is Sunday, and then when I go do research, a good majority of it says Saturday. Now I'm having question marks bouncing around my head because I don't know whos right and whos wrong. If Jesus took the law with him to the cross, wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Or actually no wait... If the entire 10 commandments still apply to Christians, then why is the sabbath still Saturday? Isn't it Sunday? I am literally confused.

Almost every Christian agrees the Sabbath was/is Saturday (or, more precisely, sundown Friday to sundown Saturday). The real debate is about whehter or not it is necessary to observe the Saturday Sabbbath in the same manner as the OT Israelites.

Most Christians correctly understand it is not necessary, as modern day Christians are not under the Old Covenant Law (including the Ten Commandments as written in Exodus 20/Deuteronomy 5). Christians are still under the Ten Commandments as they are reaffirmed by Christ/apostles in the New Testament.

The way a Christian observes the Sabbath commandment today is by hearing the meditating on God's Word. That is because God's Word gives us salvation. When we are saved, we are no longer under the burden of the Law for salvation, but are given the free gift of eternal life by Jesus Christ. We no longer need to strive for salvation by works, because Jesus has given us rest from that by saving by His death on the cross.

Psalms 62:1
My soul finds rest in God alone. My salvation comes from Him.

 

[BobRyan]

I never said it was a nazirite vow in Rom 14. YOU said Jews can never be vegetarian...so I gave you an example where that is not true.

It is true that Jews could not abstain from meat and eat Passover since it was required to eat meat as part of the "observance" of Passover. Therefore the only "in-the-new-testament" explanation for the "details" of why some were abstaining from meat - is the one Paul gives in 1 Cor 8. And it was gentiles doing it.

Furthermore no text NT or OT claims those who partook of a nazarite vow were assumed to be "weak in the faith" relative to their diet.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

It is true that Jews could not abstain from meat and eat Passover since it was required to eat meat as part of the "observance" of Passover. Therefore the only "in-the-new-testament" explanation for the "details" of why some were abstaining from meat - is the one Paul gives in 1 Cor 8. And it was gentiles doing it.

Furthermore no text NT or OT claims those who partook of a nazarite vow were assumed to be "weak in the faith" relative to their diet.

You are arguing with yourself since I never said any that.

I have already told you those verses were regarding fasting. As we know, eating vegetables or a basic diet that did not include any meat, wine or anything pleasant was constituted by Daniel when he fasted (Daniel 10:2-3 & Daniel 1:12-16). "I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine into my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled." It is a known fact that fasting was practiced heavily in the 1st century (Matthew 6:16, Matthew 9:14-15, Mark 2:18-20, Luke 5:33-35). And historical documents reveal that Monday and Thursday were considered fast days in the second temple period (Ta’an 2:4). The pharisee who prayed in Luke 18:12 about fasting twice a week, would have been keeping these fast days.

 

[BobRyan]

I never said it was a nazirite vow in Rom 14. YOU said Jews can never be vegetarian...so I gave you an example where that is not true.

It is true that in the NEW Testament - at the time of Christ etc -- Jews could not abstain from meat and eat Passover since it was required to eat meat as part of the "observance" of Passover.

Lev 23
5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the Lord’s Passover.

Ex 12 -- PASSOVER
3 Speak to all the congregation of Israel, saying, ‘On the tenth of this month they are each one to take a lamb for themselves, according to their fathers’ households, a lamb for each household. 4 Now if the household is too small for a lamb, then he and his neighbor nearest to his house are to take one according to the number of persons in them; according to what each man should eat, you are to divide the lamb. 5 Your lamb shall be an unblemished male a year old; you may take it from the sheep or from the goats. 6 You shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month, then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel is to kill it at twilight. 7 Moreover, they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and on the lintel of the houses in which they eat it. 8 They shall eat the flesh that same night, roasted with fire, and they shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. 9 Do not eat any of it raw or boiled at all with water, but rather roasted with fire, both its head and its legs along with its entrails. 10 And you shall not leave any of it over until morning, but whatever is left of it until morning, you shall burn with fire. 11 Now you shall eat it in this manner: with your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and you shall eat it in haste—it is the Lord’s Passover.

That's it! nothing else to it. If you delete all the verses regarding what you are to do with the lamb sacrifice all you have left is "on the fourteenth day of the first month... do something"

Therefore the only "in-the-new-testament" explanation for the "details" of why some were abstaining from meat - is the one Paul gives in 1 Cor 8. And it was gentiles doing it.

Furthermore no text NT or OT claims those who partook of a nazarite vow were assumed to be "weak in the faith" relative to their diet, but in both Romans 14 and 1 Cor 8 those who are "weak in the faith" eat vegetables only and 1 Cor 8 explains why that is the case.

You are arguing with yourself

No argument from me - just stating that fact.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

It is true that in the NEW Testament - at the time of Christ etc -- Jews could not abstain from meat and eat Passover since it was required to eat meat as part of the "observance" of Passover.

Lev 23
5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the Lord’s Passover.

Ex 12 -- PASSOVER
3 Speak to all the congregation of Israel, saying, ‘On the tenth of this month they are each one to take a lamb for themselves, according to their fathers’ households, a lamb for each household. 4 Now if the household is too small for a lamb, then he and his neighbor nearest to his house are to take one according to the number of persons in them; according to what each man should eat, you are to divide the lamb. 5 Your lamb shall be an unblemished male a year old; you may take it from the sheep or from the goats. 6 You shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month, then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel is to kill it at twilight. 7 Moreover, they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and on the lintel of the houses in which they eat it. 8 They shall eat the flesh that same night, roasted with fire, and they shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. 9 Do not eat any of it raw or boiled at all with water, but rather roasted with fire, both its head and its legs along with its entrails. 10 And you shall not leave any of it over until morning, but whatever is left of it until morning, you shall burn with fire. 11 Now you shall eat it in this manner: with your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and you shall eat it in haste—it is the Lord’s Passover.

That's it! nothing else to it. If you delete all the verses regarding what you are to do with the lamb sacrifice all you have left is "on the fourteenth day of the first month... do something"

Therefore the only "in-the-new-testament" explanation for the "details" of why some were abstaining from meat - is the one Paul gives in 1 Cor 8. And it was gentiles doing it.

Furthermore no text NT or OT claims those who partook of a nazarite vow were assumed to be "weak in the faith" relative to their diet, but in both Romans 14 and 1 Cor 8 those who are "weak in the faith" eat vegetables only and 1 Cor 8 explains why that is the case.

No argument from me - just stating that fact.

Again, I never said that...YOU are saying I said that. Romans 14 is about fasting while 1 Cor 8 is about eating meat sacrificed to idols. I don't know why you have this fetish regarding eating lamb at Pesakh. YES, lambs were sacrificed at the Temple at Pesakh. Jews fasted twice per week.