My problem is

[sjdean]

But again, we have the argument, that everyone is born with the desire to know their creator. It's one thing to know of God and try to live up to Gods standards, it's quite another thing to have faith on an individual you have never heard about because no one has told you or you've never found it despite searching.

We have all been giving the ability to understand God but we don't all have the understanding yet of Jesus. Many of us either don't understand, haven't found it, or haven't been told!

Or is that too much of a human viewpoint and God would have guided someone earnestly seeking to the truth?

Cya
Simon

 

[alexanderjc]

But again, we have the argument, that everyone is born with the desire to know their creator. It's one thing to know of God and try to live up to Gods standards, it's quite another thing to have faith on an individual you have never heard about because no one has told you or you've never found it despite searching.

We have all been giving the ability to understand God but we don't all have the understanding yet of Jesus. Many of us either don't understand, haven't found it, or haven't been told!

Or is that too much of a human viewpoint and God would have guided someone earnestly seeking to the truth?

Cya
Simon

Hello Simon,

I'm going to explain this a different way and I hope that my analogy will provide some clarity to your question.

I have sons of my own and while they were growing up it was my responsibility to teach them in every way that I could so that they would be ready to go out into the world to become productive citizens. I utilized my own knowledge from my parents, utilized the public school system to educated them and utilized any other teaching aid that was beneficial to their growth development.

Before I did this they had no knowledge of any of this but because of the love I have for them, inside my heart, I actively allowed that love to be shown to them by enlightening them and introducing them to everything that would give them the opportunity of knowledge through myself and others who had more knowledge than I.

Now God is much more loving that I am and has all knowledge. We are His children and He has ordained from the time of Adam's Sin a means for us to be redeemed from the law of sin and death. This one man Jesus Christ who paid the ultimate sacrifice for our sins has been seeded into the minds and hearts of all who has accepted Him as their savior. We are God's ministers and He has us all over the world. Why? For the purpose of spreading the Gospel, the Good news of Jesus Christ.

I assure you that we serve a God that will leave no stone unturned and no island unchartered in proclaiming the reality of the Son of God.

You have to understand that God's thoughts and ways of doing things far surpass our own and believe that He is capable of getting the message of Jesus Christ to everyone.

Listen to His words in Isaiah 55:8-11

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."


Know and understand that the God that we serve is Able to do all things.

 

[chilehed]

hello Andreha
how it can be , jesus is iqually to god but he is son of god ?.. .

In marriage, a man and woman unite and become a single being, one flesh, and yet remain two persons. The two are one, and yet still two. Both are fully human and equal to each other, and yet are not the same.

That's some of what God meant when he created us in His image.

 

[dizzychick70]

Hello Everyone,
I am new to this forum...and I hate to hijack anyone's posts etc, but I think that I might be able to clarify a few things for I Want To Be A Christian. I am no expert, but I am currently working towards my degree in Religious Studies & Journalism. I am a Christian. I have studied Islam, Judaism, Christianity etc. There is a lot of information, so bear with me I Want To Be A Christian....
Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all Abrahamic religions. Meaning that we share common values and origins. All 3 religions started with Abraham. Abraham had a son Ishmael with his maid Hagar. See Genesis 16:3 (New International Version)
So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.
According to the Bible he lived 137 years. See:
Genesis 25:17 (New International Version)
Altogether, Ishmael lived a hundred and thirty-seven years. He breathed his last and died, and he was gathered to his people.
The Quran views him as a prophet. Muhammad was related to Ishmael.
Abraham was married to Sarah (Sariah) and had a son with her named Issac. Issac was the son that received Gods blessing, not Ishmael.

There was a problem (jealousy between Sarah & Hagaar) and Hagaar & Ishmael left Israel. Ishmael was given blessings by God. 1- To make his descendents one great nation. 2- That his descendents would live in hostility with all of his brothers. (Muslim,Jewish conflict) 3- That his descendents would live to East of all of his brothers. See:
Genesis 16:11-13 (New International Version)
The angel of the LORD also said to her:
"You are now with child"
and you will have a son.
You shall name him Ishmael, for the LORD has heard of your misery.
He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone's hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers."
She gave this name to the LORD who spoke to her: "You are the God who sees me," for she said, "I have now seen the One who sees me."

See also:
Genesis 17:20 (New International Version)
And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.
Also:
Genesis 21:8-21 (New International Version)
Hagar and Ishmael Sent Away
The child grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast. But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking, and she said to Abraham, "Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac." The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. But God said to him, "Do not be so distressed about the boy and your maidservant. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. I will make the son of the maidservant into a nation also, because he is your offspring."
Early the next morning Abraham took some food and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. He set them on her shoulders and then sent her off with the boy. She went on her way and wandered in the desert of Beersheba.
When the water in the skin was gone, she put the boy under one of the bushes. Then she went off and sat down nearby, about a bowshot away, for she thought, "I cannot watch the boy die." And as she sat there nearby, she began to sob.
God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, "What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation."
Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink.
God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt.
To make a really long story short Ishmael was the “founding father” of Islam indirectly and Issac was the path that the Jews and Christians followed.
Judaism came first (around 2000 BC), then Christianity (around 5 BC) (Jesus was a Jew) and then @ 600 years AFTER the crucifixion of Jesus, Islam was established.
Judaism:
The true worship God started with Adam and Eve, of course. The Jewish religion started around 1500 BC.
as a nation, but it was practised first by Abraham around 2000 BC. The oldest preserved religious book is the Old Testament containing the 39 books from Genesis to Malachi. The first was written around 1450 BC, while the last one was written around 400 BC.
Christianity:
Christianity began as a Jewish sect in the mid-first century. The Christian Church had been in existence about 300 years before the Roman Catholic Church. They were the equivalent of today's Messianic Jews. The so called Roman Catholic Church started when the Bishop of Rome became prominent in the Council of Laodicea and became the head of all the Christian Churches. The Protestant Church came into existence in the 16 century or almost 500 years ago.
The New Testament containing 27 books from Matthew to Revelation was written from 50 AD to 96 AD.

Islam came on the scene in about 600 AD
Yes, the Bible is the word of GOD.
How do we know that Jesus was the promissed Messiah?? There are hundreds of prophesies about Jesus in the Old Testament. Too many to list here. Google "fulfilled prophecies of Jesus in the Old Testament" and have a read. There are different translations of the Bible, but they all mean the same thing (some people find King James Version hard to understand)
I hope this has helped in making a link between Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I think that getting all of the facts is vital for someone trying to make such a huge decision as to which religion to choose (Christianity or Islam) so that all the doubts about Jesus are clarified etc.
I’ll shut up now! lol

 

[LJSGM]

The problem that I see with this theory is that the arab nations were originally christian nations. The largest church was in the east in an arab nation before they were slaughtered at the hand of Muslims. Just because they say they are related to Ishmael doesn't mean it's true. More likely that Ishmael's desendents were the great civilization of the eygptians.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Hello Everyone,
I am new to this forum...

Yes, the Bible is the word of GOD.
How do we know that Jesus was the promissed Messiah?? There are hundreds of prophesies about Jesus in the Old Testament. Too many to list here. Google "fulfilled prophecies of Jesus in the Old Testament" and have a read. There are different translations of the Bible, but they all mean the same thing (some people find King James Version hard to understand)
I hope this has helped in making a link between Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I think that getting all of the facts is vital for someone trying to make such a huge decision as to which religion to choose (Christianity or Islam) so that all the doubts about Jesus are clarified etc.
I’ll shut up now! lol

You did well!

 

[LJSGM]

I think dizzychick did a great job too, except for the part about the descendents of Ishmael.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

I think dizzychick did a great job too, except for the part about the descendents of Ishmael.

Can you help us out with that part?

 

[LJSGM]

Can you help us out with that part?

Oh, did you see my previous post about the arab nations history as being that of christians? Doesn't make sense. If his descendents are arabs then it doesn't matter their religion, it's by birth, not belief, otherwise they would always have been muslims, which they weren't.

I don't believe that Ishmael descendents are specifically arabs.

 

[dizzychick70]

You did well!

Thanks !

I am in the middle of a migraine at the moment..... I'll try to follow up in the next day or two. Like I said I'm no expert, but Genesis is very clear on Ishmael....and Isaac and the paths of Judaism, Christianity & what we now know as Islam. Head about to pop now :o so I'll have to come back to this later.
Hope everyone has a great day !

 

[dizzychick70]

Hi everyone,
In response to the post about the early Christians (Arabs) I can say that I neither agree or disagree. As we all know and agree (hopefully) there were many years of Jesus life that are missing or undocumented. Some are documented in what we call the “lost books of the Bible” – Most of these books aren’t lost at all – they just never made the “cut” when they were deciding on which books of the Bible to add. (Council of Nicea 325 AD) & Roman Emperor Constantine. (Don’t EVEN get me started on this guy!) lol

How do we know what Jesus was doing? Was he ministering before his “documented” ministry?? Was he living in Nazareth as a normal person, studying etc? It is hard to say. Considering some accounts of the Bible I think that Jesus may have been away from Nazareth, travelling & possibly spreading the word. I have several reasons for this:
First after Jesus crucifixion his body was given to Joseph of Arimathea for burial. Was he a follower or was he related to Jesus? Some believe that he was Mary’s uncle. Jewish law did not permit women to get involved with anything such as burials etc. It was customary that the body be given to the eldest, MALE next of kin. Since there is no mention of Joseph (Mary’s husband) and Jesus earthly father – I assume he was already dead. We know (from the Bible) that Jesus brother was there. So, why was Jesus body given to a stranger instead of his brothers? That wasn’t Jewish law – so it would point that Joseph of Arimathea was related to Jesus. What do we KNOW about Joseph of Arimathea? Well, Jewish historians kept fairly good records (also a reference to him in Isaiah!) – so we know that he was very wealthy, he was a trader, and he travelled. Is it possible that Jesus travelled with his uncle on business and possibly spread the word? I think that it is very possible. Nazareth wasn’t exactly a booming city. Jesus spoke at least 3 languages that we know of. Where did he learn that?

Berlitz didn’t exist then so to me that means that had to have had contact with native speakers….. which most likely meant travel.
Second, there are accounts (records, scrolls etc.) that have been found in India, England, Tibet etc. that talk about being visited by Jesus. It said that he came on a boat with his family. This allegedly happened during the “missing” bits of his life. (dated in that time)

My third reason is that when Jesus approached his cousin John the Baptist on the river, and John did not realize who he was. If Jesus stayed in Nazareth with his family without being gone several years why would his own cousin not know him? I don’t know about you, but I know ALL of my 1st, 2nd and 3rd cousins very well. (I grew up in a small town) This to me is another clue that Jesus may have been away from Nazareth for some extended amounts of time.

There are more reasons (clues) throughout the Bible that hint that Jesus may not have began his ministry in Israel as we thought. We (the gentiles) may have not been the 1st to hear the gospel….. who knows, it is up for each of us to make up our own minds.

The only record that we have is the Bible and to be honest, should it matter who knew Christ first as long as we all do now? There could be Arab Christians that are older than the gentiles. (Original Christians)

As far my post on Islam and how it began I was trying to show the person known as I want 2 be a Christian the link/roots/etc. to show him that Islam is not the way forward. There are verses in the Quran that indicate that Mohammed walked with Jesus and Moses ?? (been a while since I studied Islam) The point that I was trying to make without being too obvious (or rude) was that the Quran is incorrect if you take the word of the Bible to be GODS word.

Jesus was killed and risen @ 625 years before the birth of Mohammed – so it would be highly unlikely to put it nicely. lol

Whether the Quran was saying the spirit of Jesus or Jesus before he was crucified I don’t know.

There isn’t a great deal of info about Ishmael to go on other than what is found in Genesis. To me it is very clear, but again that’s up to the individual. I didn’t say that Ishmael was the “founder” of Islam. (The Quran recognizes Ishmael as a prophet & Mohammed as a descendant of Ishmael)

Islam came onto the scene thousands of years later. It would appear to me that if you weren’t a Jew or a Christian then you were an Idol worshipper, so maybe between the time that Ishmael and his mother left till the time of Mohammed all of the non Jews & non Christians worshipped the sun, numerous gods, cats etc. Who knows…. Makes a good debate! Going to die with my migraine now lol - I was gonna leave this till tomorrow, but I can't stay away.....lol

 

[seashale76]

Father is muslim
mother is christian
me is confused

which religon should I choose

none of them tried to influance on me , I tried to choose my religon by studing it in a closer look

I will not lie , I'm in a Islam forum too , ask here and there till I find answer 2 my questions .

If u c that here is not the right place , I will leave
if I'm wellcomed I'll be most pleasured

may god bless u

Hello! Well, in a Christian forum, we're obviously going to tell you that we think you should become a Christian.

I'm very glad to see you're taking the decision seriously. It never hurts to do your research. It is a very big commitment and it shouldn't be one you go into blindly.

I will post a few things that it certainly wouldn't hurt for you to read that explain the Christian faith fairly well.

What Is Most Important
The One
Introduction to the Bible
Excerpts from the Orthodox Church by Bishop Kallistos Ware
Excerpts from the Orthodox Church by Bishop Kallistos Ware

Here is some advice for you. Pray! Through prayer you will find yourself open to the direction of God's will for your life.

To get you started, here are some helpful resources regarding prayer:
P r a y e r
Let us
Abbreviated Prayerbook
The Message of the Lord's Prayer

May God continue to guide you to Himself.

 

[SuperFly1]

Father is muslim
mother is christian
me is confused

which religon should I choose

none of them tried to influance on me , I tried to choose my religon by studing it in a closer look

I will not lie , I'm in a Islam forum too , ask here and there till I find answer 2 my questions .

If u c that here is not the right place , I will leave
if I'm wellcomed I'll be most pleasured

may god bless u

hi.

 

[TR1]

As far my post on Islam and how it began I was trying to show the person known as I want 2 be a Christian the link/roots/etc. to show him that Islam is not the way forward. There are verses in the Quran that indicate that Mohammed walked with Jesus and Moses ?? (been a while since I studied Islam) The point that I was trying to make without being too obvious (or rude) was that the Quran is incorrect if you take the word of the Bible to be GODS word.

Jesus was killed and risen @ 625 years before the birth of Mohammed – so it would be highly unlikely to put it nicely. lol

Whether the Quran was saying the spirit of Jesus or Jesus before he was crucified I don’t know.

There isn’t a great deal of info about Ishmael to go on other than what is found in Genesis. To me it is very clear, but again that’s up to the individual. I didn’t say that Ishmael was the “founder” of Islam. (The Quran recognizes Ishmael as a prophet & Mohammed as a descendant of Ishmael)

Islam came onto the scene thousands of years later. It would appear to me that if you weren’t a Jew or a Christian then you were an Idol worshipper, so maybe between the time that Ishmael and his mother left till the time of Mohammed all of the non Jews & non Christians worshipped the sun, numerous gods, cats etc. Who knows…. Makes a good debate! Going to die with my migraine now lol - I was gonna leave this till tomorrow, but I can't stay away.....lol[/quote]

immature response and highly uneducated... as a practising, you should be careful to not offend anyone and surely you can be nicer...

im educated on both religions and will clarify your matter... islam is not founded by anyone except god. the simple message of islam is to worship one god alone. very simple... much like jesus, moses and the other prophets have done...

ishmael is known as the father of the arabs, thus the descendant of him are known as muslims since Mohammed was an arab, also directly descended from ishmael, and most arabs are muslims.

now, the pagan rituals of the time meant that most people in the arab world at that time worshipped idols.. nothing more... Mohammed was an exception who much like Abraham, worshipped the one God... he would often retreat to the Mount to pray. It was here where his revelation started...

if you had an ounce of knowledge, you would have simply seen that from jesus departure, many many canons were written, choped, changed, added and history proves this. we then in that time have the entrence of paul, who in all truth, takes what belongs to jesus and changes it... just like jesus said people would...

now, looking at islam, it comes at a time when people were lost and worshiping other dieties and revering jesus as a son of god... simple fact is, if you have read the quran rather then picking up one or two qoutes, which i assume you have... i stand corrected is i am wrong... then you will see the message is, worship one god, full decree of judgement day, affirms jesus as the messiah but ask for mankind to not call him the son, since god has no son but classes him as a mighty prophet. simple fact is that you refer to the AL ISRA chapter of the quran, which describes the night journey of Mohammed into the heavens. it is here he meets Jesus and Moses... so in answer to you, it is the spirit... making it likely... so who time difference matters

if you research and read the quran you will see that it reverts back to the wat jesus taught, confirming what he gave his people, asks for sole worship to god alone, remember the Quran is written in 1st narrative as God speaking, which Mohammed is repeating, not creating. If you really have knowledge, you can see that this is bang on with what Due 18:18 says and what John 16:7-15 says will happen..

please, we are both practising here, so its best not to offend anyone, thinking you are being funny when you are not in a position to either enter such a knowledgable discussion and should not be rude to other religions... learn and return...

 

[TR1]

Dear Seashale76

you are one of the most sensible people on here offering the christian basics to our friend here and asking him to learn and decide... god will help him decide if it is for him to reach the truth, he will...

thank you for your use of brains and guile... iv been horrified and some of the utter crap that has been posted here.

may god keep you safe and guide you...

 

[throughchristimchanged]

Father is muslim
mother is christian
me is confused

which religon should I choose

none of them tried to influance on me , I tried to choose my religon by studing it in a closer look

I will not lie , I'm in a Islam forum too , ask here and there till I find answer 2 my questions .

If u c that here is not the right place , I will leave
if I'm wellcomed I'll be most pleasured

may god bless u

love is where you originate

 

[Receiver]

Father is muslim
mother is christian
me is confused

which religon should I choose

God wants relationship, that requires faith and desire for Him to introduce himself, that's the only thing you can do to please him!

Here's the testimony of a friend who was in a similar situation to you:

"Growing up, I had a lot of exposure to religions including the Pentecostal church. I was confirmed in the church of England when I was 15, I also went to the catholic church when I was young and, to complete the confusion, my fathers side of the family is Muslim.

Years passed and it was during my final year in university that I asked myself if there was a God. My mother spoke in tongues, and I thought people like that were special. If there was a God I wanted to know. I started to read the Bible. I read Acts chapter 10 and realised that there was a difference between a person that “just” feared God and one that went about doing the right thing for the Lord. I also understood that speaking in tongues is a confirmation of receiving the Holy Spirit. I also knew I had to be baptised.

I began to pray that someone would tell me the truth. I met a brother who witnessed to me and he confirmed all I had read. The next day I was baptised and that evening I began to pray and speak out in tongues. Since then, the Lord has blessed me in many ways.

I was involved in a train accident where six carriages got derailed. The Lord protected me from injury, I was cocooned like I had a bubble around me. Some others involved found they were mentally shaken, I look back and see I am cared for."

- - - -

Many people who call themselves "Christian" havn't received His Spirit, they are trying to be "Christian" with their own spirit, but don't actually have the relationship with God that Jesus made available.