My Non-Christian "Struggle"

[gd44]

I don't know that I have any that differ from any other human being. Except that not being a Christian in a country with a strong Christian majority generates a set of problems most Christians will never deal with.

For example, I can't honestly discuss my feelings about religion and its concepts. I must remain "closeted" because should certain Christians feel that I have criticized their religion (blasphemed) my life, health or employment could be in serious jeopardy.

I also remain permanently baffled at the notion of earnestly believing in things that are unproven. In all other areas of like we use logic and reason to assess the universe and form our beliefs about it, though when it comes to religion we admire a lack of evidence and application of critical analysis.

To be a non-believer means that one must endure dozens of misconceptions, usually negative, and masses of people that choose never to straighten those misconceptions out. Additionally, many churches openly berate non-believers and proliferate these misconceptions; the atheist in particular are the most popular popinjay of the clergy.

The non-believer was currently reported to be the most distrusted minority in America, additionally that the voting mob would prefer a muslim over a non-theist. The struggle of the non-Christian is the same one as any other group throughout history that endured the hardships of bigotry and prejudice.

I can only hope that one day those who earnestly believe in a god will find a way to tolerate and cohabitate with those people who have different ideas about the universe as them. I understand this problem is much more severe in the U.S. (where I am) than other areas, but it's fine time Americans drop these unsavory and dishonorable customs.

 

[Ration]

Makes me glad I currently live in Australia, and my time spent in the USA was in San Fran. At least people know what Atheists are, whenever I try and explain to someone what a unitarian universalist is they just look at me funny.

 

[bling]

There is only about 17% of the USA in church on Sunday. People may call themselves “Christians”, but really do not act even a little like Christ.

As a Christian I have found it hard at times to discuss my beliefs at work, because of the strong criticism, so I think I know how you feel.

We have Christian brothers in China that are really being persecuted, so we should sympathy with your condition and should not be attacking you?

If you believe: “atheism is the most logical alternative”, you may need further study. The creation of this universe without a God getting it started and fine tuning it, is not logical. There are just too many signs of intelligence. The other big issue is getting life started from just chemicals in a relatively short amount of time 500 million years +or-. There is not known logical system for going from nonliving to living. (Evolution works for things already alive).

 

[gd44]

We have Christian brothers in China that are really being persecuted, so we should sympathy with your condition and should not be attacking you?

To me, nobody should be attacking anyone over beliefs. I think discussing our beliefs honestly and respectfully is important. However, conditions in the U.S. are such that this is often impossible for the non-believer and even discussion amongst theists is strongly discouraged: 'never discuss religion or politics'.

If you believe: “atheism is the most logical alternative”, you may need further study. The creation of this universe without a God getting it started and fine tuning it, is not logical. There are just too many signs of intelligence. The other big issue is getting life started from just chemicals in a relatively short amount of time 500 million years +or-. There is not known logical system for going from nonliving to living. (Evolution works for things already alive).

When it comes to the questions of universe origins or the process which began life, the only intellectually honest answer is 'I don't know'. While it may be that a deity is/was involved in either of those processes, invoking that deity as the explanation would not only be dishonest (as it is as yet unproven), but then makes the mystery exponentially harder to solve. Additionally, for me the discoveries and mysteries of science have no bearing on my disbelief in deities.

 

[Soothfish]

I don't know that I have any that differ from any other human being. Except that not being a Christian in a country with a strong Christian majority generates a set of problems most Christians will never deal with.

For example, I can't honestly discuss my feelings about religion and its concepts. I must remain "closeted" because should certain Christians feel that I have criticized their religion (blasphemed) my life, health or employment could be in serious jeopardy.

I also remain permanently baffled at the notion of earnestly believing in things that are unproven. In all other areas of like we use logic and reason to assess the universe and form our beliefs about it, though when it comes to religion we admire a lack of evidence and application of critical analysis.

To be a non-believer means that one must endure dozens of misconceptions, usually negative, and masses of people that choose never to straighten those misconceptions out. Additionally, many churches openly berate non-believers and proliferate these misconceptions; the atheist in particular are the most popular popinjay of the clergy.

The non-believer was currently reported to be the most distrusted minority in America, additionally that the voting mob would prefer a muslim over a non-theist. The struggle of the non-Christian is the same one as any other group throughout history that endured the hardships of bigotry and prejudice.

I can only hope that one day those who earnestly believe in a god will find a way to tolerate and cohabitate with those people who have different ideas about the universe as them. I understand this problem is much more severe in the U.S. (where I am) than other areas, but it's fine time Americans drop these unsavory and dishonorable customs.

I'm sorry that you experienced some of the many bad cults that exist in the USA. Many of them have a very twisted view of Christ and Christianity. There are even some churches that berate their own religion constantly....which of course makes no sense.

This isn't true of Christianity as a whole. The Jesuits in particular are known for their intellectual openness and rigor. Some protestant churches in the deep south are also very intellectual but you have to look in the right place for them. They try to behave like Christ and use their minds instead of their emotions. You will not be treated like crap when around them.

 

[GarrickBrewer]

You know I just want to say that I receive the same treatment in reverse, I am publicly mocked in my school for being christian with one or two people who are openly hostile to me. As for your situation I am sorry that you have to deal with people like that. It is not the behavior of a proper christian, we are supposed to be respectful to EVERYONE and people like that are the ones that give christians a bad image,

 

[bling]

When it comes to the questions of universe origins or the process which began life, the only intellectually honest answer is 'I don't know'. While it may be that a deity is/was involved in either of those processes, invoking that deity as the explanation would not only be dishonest (as it is as yet unproven), but then makes the mystery exponentially harder to solve. Additionally, for me the discoveries and mysteries of science have no bearing on my disbelief in deities.

So far in every area of man’s study this has held true: “The more we know the more we realize we do not know.” Saying “I don’t know” does not get us off the hook, since we have to continue living as if there is the Christian God or as if there is not a Christian God. There are really no “Laws” of science but just the same continuous repeated observations, so what has really been “proven” and what remains “unproven”?

The discussion I was engaging was on the use of logic and critical analysis.

If after critical analysis there is virtually no way some things could have happened without intelligent design, the most logical alternative could be intelligent design, but that does not make it a fact.

God is never going to be “fact” for unbeliever, because of the need for faith to help the unbeliever fulfill his earthly objective.

OK, so what is your logical critical reasoning (non-emotional) for “disbelief in deity”?

 

[oi_antz]

I don't know that I have any that differ from any other human being. Except that not being a Christian in a country with a strong Christian majority generates a set of problems most Christians will never deal with.

For example, I can't honestly discuss my feelings about religion and its concepts. I must remain "closeted" because should certain Christians feel that I have criticized their religion (blasphemed) my life, health or employment could be in serious jeopardy.

I also remain permanently baffled at the notion of earnestly believing in things that are unproven. In all other areas of like we use logic and reason to assess the universe and form our beliefs about it, though when it comes to religion we admire a lack of evidence and application of critical analysis.

To be a non-believer means that one must endure dozens of misconceptions, usually negative, and masses of people that choose never to straighten those misconceptions out. Additionally, many churches openly berate non-believers and proliferate these misconceptions; the atheist in particular are the most popular popinjay of the clergy.

The non-believer was currently reported to be the most distrusted minority in America, additionally that the voting mob would prefer a muslim over a non-theist. The struggle of the non-Christian is the same one as any other group throughout history that endured the hardships of bigotry and prejudice.

I can only hope that one day those who earnestly believe in a god will find a way to tolerate and cohabitate with those people who have different ideas about the universe as them. I understand this problem is much more severe in the U.S. (where I am) than other areas, but it's fine time Americans drop these unsavory and dishonorable customs.

I have the same experience but from the opposite perspective. Every day I hear someone say "Oh my gawwwd" or "Jeeeesus F'n Keeeriste". These people I work with are atheist. They blaspheme and swear all day long, but I am a contractor I cannot expect them to go out of their way for me. It happens on TV and the movies too. So, just to let you know, that it makes me very uncomfortable to live in a world where people are so disrespectful toward the guy I love more than anyone. What do you say about that? Do you never take God's name in vain? Do you never blaspheme the humble Lord who died over our sin? I cringe every day to live in this world, maybe you should move over here if that is the behavior you like.

 

[drich0150]

I don't know that I have any that differ from any other human being. Except that not being a Christian in a country with a strong Christian majority generates a set of problems most Christians will never deal with.

Just because some people wish to identify with Christianity when being poled it does not mean they are Christian. Not to mention I have taken a gallot type questionnaire before about religion and the question was asked:
IF you HAD to identify with a religion which would choose? and they gave a list. at the end of that list there was a space for a write in answer. The question was written in such away to have one think he must indeed pick a religious belief. As if a non theistic view was not an option.

If you want a true picture of Christianity in America then ask who goes to church every Sunday, and out of those who are active in the church at least 2 or more days aweek. Who give regurally?? I should dare to say the numbers (if answered honestly) would be alot smaller than what you have represented.

For example, I can't honestly discuss my feelings about religion and its concepts. I must remain "closeted" because should certain Christians feel that I have criticized their religion (blasphemed) my life, health or employment could be in serious jeopardy.

and the pendulum swings the other way as well. I have been chastised and lost my job because I would not entertain clients in ways that would compromise my beliefs. I have been chastised for sharing the faith (When asked) and shunned and left out because I was perceived to be a wet blanket.

The problem here is not what you believe it is how your peers perceive and deal with people who believe in different things. This character fault is not bound to what you do or do not believe.

I also remain permanently baffled at the notion of earnestly believing in things that are unproven.

Belief in what most of you deem as fact" still requires faith. In that to believe a theory to be true, Especially in One that is constantly "evolving" is a huge leap of faith. Truth is a standard that can never be changed, and yet your "truths" change all of the time. To believe that the "current truth" is indeed the Real truth is the very definition of Faith.

In all other areas of like we use logic and reason to assess the universe and form our beliefs about it, though when it comes to religion we admire a lack of evidence and application of critical analysis.

Actually "we/you don't. your next few paragraphs prove this.

To be a non-believer means that one must endure dozens of misconceptions, usually negative, and masses of people that choose never to straighten those misconceptions out.

I would argue otherwise. We All start out as non-believers, and depending on when we come to the faith will determine our exposure to all that you have claimed. If this were always true why would anyone seek out God/Christ?

Additionally, many churches openly berate non-believers and proliferate these misconceptions; the atheist in particular are the most popular popinjay of the clergy

Here is a statement lacking in the very evidence you claim to require for all applications of a critical analysis. What happened here?

The non-believer was currently reported to be the most distrusted minority in America, additionally that the voting mob would prefer a Muslim over a non-theist. The struggle of the non-Christian is the same one as any other group throughout history that endured the hardships of bigotry and prejudice.

Again, evidence?

I can only hope that one day those who earnestly believe in a god will find a way to tolerate and cohabitate with those people who have different ideas about the universe as them. I understand this problem is much more severe in the U.S. (where I am) than other areas, but it's fine time Americans drop these unsavory and dishonorable customs.

So I guess proof, facts and evidence is only necessary outside of any witch hunting activity you wish to be involved in.

 

[xNIHILISTx]

There is not known logical system for going from nonliving to living. (Evolution works for things already alive).

Research abiogenesis.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I also remain permanently baffled at the notion of earnestly believing in things that are unproven. In all other areas of like we use logic and reason to assess the universe and form our beliefs about it, though when it comes to religion we admire a lack of evidence and application of critical analysis.

There is plenty of evidence if you have an open mind. It just requires taking a step back and evaluating the experiences that people actually do have with God. As an example the following Website lists verifyable cases of divine healing, it is run by Christian doctors WCDN. Then there is the fact that the everyday Christian has experiences with God as well I have documented mine at Know God Personally. Hope all this helps you see there is a God.

 

[40 Rabbits]

Wow! Odd choice of words for a title - I don't struggle with not being Christian - I'm from a tradtional Native American background. Our culture (Apache/Comanche) has been here for many thousands of years...at least as long as the Israelites that returned from Egypt. I find it odd that I should be expected to abandon my culture and adopt the beliefs of a foreign culture from halfway around the world. I'm looking forward to discussions in here. It seems like the options are severely limited for non-Christians. I hope I am not stepping on toes in here, but I don't know where else in the forums to post my views.

 

[razeontherock]

For example, I can't honestly discuss my feelings about religion and its concepts. I must remain "closeted" because should certain Christians feel that I have criticized their religion (blasphemed)

Welcome to CF!

1) Criticism is not blasphemy. Your time here will be easier if you can learn to be respectful in the way you question though.

2) A chat room like this will serve you well if you use it wisely.

I also remain permanently baffled at the notion of earnestly believing in things that are unproven. In all other areas of like we use logic and reason to assess the universe and form our beliefs about it, though when it comes to religion we admire a lack of evidence and application of critical analysis.

To be a non-believer means that one must endure dozens of misconceptions, usually negative, and masses of people that choose never to straighten those misconceptions out.

The only part of this i will agree with is the last line, and I also find needing to endure that to be ... aggravating. I don't have a high tolerance for stupidity.

Personally, I came to the Lord via logic, and use the same principles as contained in the scientific method to develop my Faith. Maybe I should also point out the Bible never says "the Lord works in mysterious ways?"

popinjay

I need to google this; is it a typo? Seems you mis-used it, since it refers to a person.

popinjay

The non-believer was currently reported to be the most distrusted minority in America, additionally that the voting mob would prefer a muslim over a non-theist. The struggle of the non-Christian is the same one as any other group throughout history that endured the hardships of bigotry and prejudice. [/quote]

You going for endangered species? What part of the country are you in anyway, that disclosing your atheist status would endanger your "life, health and employment?"

popinjay

I can only hope that one day those who earnestly believe in a god will find a way to tolerate and cohabitate with those people who have different ideas about the universe as them. I understand this problem is much more severe in the U.S. (where I am) than other areas, but it's fine time Americans drop these unsavory and dishonorable customs.
[/QUOTE]

I cannot sympathize with the sentiments you express here. First of all, I "tolerate and cohabit with" etc exactly as you long for, and have always lived in an area where that was not merely socially acceptable, but socially required. Second of all, the very basis of our political system was designed for a "godly and religious people." Without that, it just will not work. Our FF's were very wise and accomplished men who did great things; maybe you should learn to appreciate that?

 

[razeontherock]

I hope I am not stepping on toes in here, but I don't know where else in the forums to post my views.

CWR here in our outreach section; the society section is open to you and has lively discussions, and there is also an NDN community group! You have some fascinating peers here, btw ...

Peace

 

[salida]

The Myth of Abiogenesis
http://www.studytoanswer.net/origins/abiogenesis.html

 

[40 Rabbits]

CWR here in our outreach section; the society section is open to you and has lively discussions, and there is also an NDN community group! You have some fascinating peers here, btw ...

Peace

Thanks!!!