My Next Apple Challenge

[joshua 1 9]

Well for the record, God created the earth ex nihilo about 4004 BC, and there's no physical evidence to substantiate it.

Heb 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. G5316

Ex nihilo is a Latin phrase meaning "out of nothing". The Bible says the things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. That does not mean "nothing" it just means unseen or invisible.

1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

 

[Loudmouth]

God creates an iPad ex nihilo and gives it to you.

Everyone you tell laughs at you.

Convince them otherwise, or explain why you can't.

Would an iPad created ex nihilo have fingerprints on it from people who never existed, and who never touched the iPad?

Would the iPad have videos from past events that never happened?

Would the iPad have a chip on one corner from an accident that never happened?

 

[AV1611VET]

And invalidates it.

Only Apple can create an IPad -- trademarked, don't you know...

Anyone else is making a knock-off.

So whether or not it is trademarked, or whether it's an original or knock-off can prevent one from being created ex nihilo?

 

[AV1611VET]

Would an iPad created ex nihilo have fingerprints on it from people who never existed, and who never touched the iPad?

Would the iPad have videos from past events that never happened?

Would the iPad have a chip on one corner from an accident that never happened?

Suppose it did?

What evidence would you use to convince naysayers that it came into existence ex nihilo?

Can you answer that?

 

[Loudmouth]

So whether or not it is trademarked, or whether it's an original or knock-off can prevent one from being created ex nihilo?

Will an iPad created ex nihilo 10 minutes ago have a biofilm on it from human contact that never happened?

Will an iPad created ex nihilo 10 minutes ago have fingerprints on it from people who never touched it?

 

[Loudmouth]

Suppose it did?

What evidence would you use to convince naysayers that it came into existence ex nihilo?

Can you answer that?

You are saying that creation ex nihilo includes a fake history?

 

[AV1611VET]

You are saying that creation ex nihilo includes a fake history?

For the sake of argument, let's go with it.

Time to answer please; or are we going to play Feature Creep all year?

 

[Loudmouth]

For the sake of argument, let's go with it.

If a deity can produce an entire fake history that is completely indistinguishable from a real history, then there would be no way to differentiate between a fake history and a real history.

 

[AV1611VET]

If a deity can produce an entire fake history that is completely indistinguishable from a real history, then there would be no way to differentiate between a fake history and a real history.

That's not your problem though, is it?

Just focus on the challenge as I wrote it, and you'll be okay.

 

[Loudmouth]

That's not your problem though, is it?

Yes, it is the problem.

Just focus on the challenge as I wrote it, and you'll be okay.

I did focus on it.

 

[Skavau]

People laughed at Jesus too and we're just as wrong.

You have to demonstrate this claim. Your logical thinking is, at best, scatty. Your challenge was set up to invite an obvious answer: "I would be unable to demonstrate that God created the Ipad ex nihilo." If people answer that, as they should, you would then intervene to say "See, I say the same about the creation of the universe! Therefore it happened!"

Do I need to pick apart the scatty thinking there? You're literally creating an example with similar properties to something that you allege happened in the past and state that our inability to demonstrate such an example (if it happened) somehow validates your own claim. It doesn't.

If any of us received anything from nothing by any entity (or no entity), we would have no reason to assume that anyone who did not witness it would have any reason to assume that it actually happened. What we can actually gather from your boring and frivolous challenges is that you really covertly accept your positions are absurd and laughable but you still want us to assume them as true anyway, and you try to invoke bizarre copycat challenges to that end.

Also you portray God as deliberately misleading, which makes him petty and not worthy of praise.

Or are you satisfied with calling consensus of opinion "reality" in this case?We can't see gravity, yet we know it exists by observing its effects.

There are no observable effects from God. Or rather, you have yet to demonstrate that the properties or some properties of the universe could only come from God.

Are you turning your back on God because you can't see: time divided into BC/AD, Christian holidays, iconography, edifices, music, debates, and literature as evidence?

The existence of time is not evidence of God. Dating categorisation is not evidence of God anymore than the Islamic calendar demonstrates Islam. That we observe Christian holidays is not evidence of God anymore than Muslims observing Ramadan demonstrates Islam.

Iconography is symbolism, and there's plenty of that in Satanism and Scientology. Not evidence of God.

What does music demonstrate? Does Black Metal provide credibility to Satanism? Does Viking Metal demonstrate Odin?

Same goes with literature and debates. What on earth are you even arguing at this point?

It sounds to me like you pick and choose what is real and what isn't.

Uh, yes. To an extent. We are all convinced by some claims and not convinced by others. Do you not do this?

 

[TLK Valentine]

So whether or not it is trademarked, or whether it's an original or knock-off can prevent one from being created ex nihilo?

Doesn't particularly matter how it's created -- it's still not an iPad unless Apple creates it.

 

[TLK Valentine]

For the sake of argument, let's go with it.

Time to answer please; or are we going to play Feature Creep all year?

So you're asking if God can create a fake iPad with a fake history, correct?

OK, I'll bite -- yes, He most certainly can create a fake iPad with a fake history.

 

[AV1611VET]

OK, I'll bite -- yes, He most certainly can create a fake iPad with a fake history.

Okay.

Now my challenge, did you forget that?

I'm laughing at you -- convince me I'm wrong.

If you can't, then why would you ask someone for evidence of the creation of the earth?

In other words, the next time someone says God spoke this earth into existence, think of this challenge thread before you ask for evidence.

 

[AdamSK]

In other words, the next time someone says God spoke this earth into existence, think of this challenge thread before you ask for evidence.

Why? Do you think people should accept the claim of ex nihilo creation without evidence?

Why is your position, that I should accept the iPad came into existence ex nihilo because I observed it, superior to my position, that I should presume I acquired the iPad by conventional means and then had a hallucination?

I will still ask for evidence of creation ex nihilo, because I don't accept the existence of a trickster god.

 

[Loudmouth]

Okay.

Now my challenge, did you forget that?

Could an all powerful God completely fool us into accepting a perfect forgery of an ancient Earth and ancient Universe. I think we all agree that such a deceiving God could fool us.

Your point?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Okay.

Now my challenge, did you forget that?

I'm laughing at you -- convince me I'm wrong.

If you can't, then why would you ask someone for evidence of the creation of the earth?

In other words, the next time someone says God spoke this earth into existence, think of this challenge thread before you ask for evidence.

Have I ever denied that God is capable of creating a fake Earth with a fake age and a fake history?

You're the one who wants us all to worship such a convincing faker...

 

[Skavau]

Okay.

Now my challenge, did you forget that?

I'm laughing at you -- convince me I'm wrong.

If you can't, then why would you ask someone for evidence of the creation of the earth?

Because most creationists are not like you. They insist they have evidence.

 

[quatona]

In other words, the next time someone says God spoke this earth into existence, think of this challenge thread before you ask for evidence.

I´d never ask for evidence with such a claim - I´d just put in the folder where I keep all unfalsifiable exceptional claims.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Because most creationists are not like you. They insist they have evidence.

And most of them at least try to downplay the "fake" aspects of creation -- not embrace them.