Pre-Trib Only My New End Times Chronology

[Timtofly]

This is the kind of interpretation that happens when you don't see Revelation as 2 parallel visions of the same events but somehow see it as Jesus is established as King, but then hands over power and authority to Satan to hand over to the beast. Which duplicates a lot of events and quickly stops making sense. Which is part of why Revelation is such a confusing book to many people because they do not divide it correctly. Revelation 10, particularly 10:7, exists as a chapter specifically to mark that the 7th trumpet is the end of that narrative. That anything else seen after John witnesses the judgement of the dead, is not a continuation, but another view.

Where did I say Jesus was proclaimed as King? The 7th Trumpet does sound, no? Satan is cast out of Heaven, no? Does the whole 8 day week finish, or is it interrupted?

The 7th Trumpet starts when the final harvest is complete at the 7th Thunder. It does not stop until the end of the one hour battle of Armageddon. The 7th Trumpet covers the complete 8 days. The 8 days include Satan's 42 months, because God allowed those 42 months to cut the week in half. The last 3 days of the week is the 7 vial event, when the 2 witnesses lay dead in Jerusalem. Then, Sunday afternoon is the battle of Armageddon. The 7th Trumpet covers chapters 10-19. The chapters are different aspects of the 7th Trumpet event.

Let's break this down
Revelation 6:9-11

So we see here, those who are martyred during the great tribulations, this would be during those 42 months that the Antichrist reigns who has been beheading Christians after the Abomination of Desolation, complaining that God has not judged the world yet, He has not begun His wrath yet. Because for the wrath to come first the world must be judged. They are told that it will not happen, until a number of Christians that were destined to be martyred in this period were killed. Anything before the 5th seal, is not the wrath of God therefore.
Revelation 6:12-17

That is as clear as it gets to tell you when exactly does the wrath of God begin. After Jesus appears in the clouds, sitting on His throne, after the sun and moon go dark, as has been told all through OT prophecy as the sign that precedes the day of the Lord. Whatever happens after this point in time, is the wrath of God. Chapter 7 is kind of parenthetical but I still think it chronologically happens after the sixth seal event before the 7th, chapter 10 is parenthetical, and the two witnesses part of chapter 11 I THINK had been ongoing rather than 3.5 years of time passing between the 6th trumpet and 7th trumpet. the end part of it may be happening at the same time as the rapture, where they get resurrected and brought up to heaven. But I'm flexible on the two witnesses. It does just make more sense than 3.5 years between the 6th and 7th trumpet.
the rest of chapter 11, the 7th trumpet, the earthquake, and the announcement that the world now belongs to Jesus and there's a final judgement of the dead. Very similar to what happens in chapter 20. Just chapter 20 gives a length of time between the establishment of the kingdom and final judgement.

The martyrs in the 5th seal include all of history from Abel, who Cain slew to this very day. Jesus already pointed that out: Luke 11:51

Revelation 20 cannot happen until after the 7th Trumpet stops. This would be Monday, the next day. The day would start at 6pm after the battle of Armageddon, if God still uses Hebrew time, set up in Genesis 1.

Second vision
Revelation 14:6-10

First off, we see that the Lord does not judge the world until the great commission is completed, and ultimately, the church does not complete it themselves, An angel finishes the job. This has to happen before the end can come, as Jesus said in Matthew 24:14
Pretribbers seem to understand that the gospel has to be preached to everyone before the rapture can take place.
Here we see that only happens after the mark of the beast has been around
Second, we see that the world is now judged. God doesn't bring His wrath until He has judged. So the stuff that happened before, the mark of the beast, and persecution, was not the wrath of God.
Third, we see that not everyone has taken the mark of the beast, there are some who are still alive, who have not taken it, and are warned against it.
Then we come to the appearance of Jesus in the clouds
Revelation 14:14-20


The wrath begins after the harvest (the rapture) that Jesus performs when He came on the clouds. Nothing before that was the wrath. The wrath happens after. Just like in the first narrative, the first 5 seals were not the wrath of God, Jesus came at the 6th seal, and that's when the wrath of God began. In the first narrative it's represented by trumpets. In the second narrative it's represented by bowls/vials.
Revelation 15:1

Revelation 16:1

Couldn't be clearer that the wrath of God is the vials, and not before, and in the first narrative it's the trumpets, and not before.

The point about angels is symbolic of death. The harvest is a death event. The sheep and wheat are not changed, nor added to the church. They literally die. Revelation 20:4 is their Resurrection. Revelation 20 has nothing to do with the church one iota. I agree the church is completed in the 6th seal. They remain in Paradise until it comes down as the New Jerusalem.

Revelation 20 deals with those beheaded in the 42 months. These are not martyrs. These are people who save their own souls from being removed from the book of life, by choosing to have their heads cut off. Avoiding the mark from appearing on one's head is the only reason to cut one's head off. It is a binary choice of eternal life or eternal damnation. It is not dying for standing up for Jesus Christ. It is dying instead of worshipping Satan.

 

[iamlamad]

For once you say something that makes sense.
But yeah, I don't think that the elders are the raptured church, something along the lines of old testaments saints that were resurrected and taken to heaven when "the graves were opened" after the crucifixion might be. It is ultimately a guess though because they are not explained. Either way their identity cannot be 100% established so it's bad to base doctrine on their identity.
As to the 2 resurrections I think what John is communicating is that there's 2 resurrections connected to the return of Christ. There is only 1 resurrection event when He first comes out of the clouds and that catches all the faithful except a few special cases that were resurrected during the first coming.
But there's a "rest of the dead" leftover after that second coming resurrection that has to wait until final judgement. There's no mention of multiple waves of resurrections at multiple comings of our Lord.

For once you say something that makes sense. This doesn't make sense, because EVERYTHING I write makes sense!

No, those that rose when Jesus rose would of necessity be OT saints. I agree, bad to base doctrine on the elders. Good point.

Just so you know, someone who has been to heaven and returned to testify, saw a difference in Abraham's appearance compared with other saints and asked Him about it. Abraham said that a few of the OT Saints already had their resurrection bodies. Just saying....it is not scripture, but it seems to agree with scripture.

There's no mention of multiple waves of resurrections at multiple comings of our Lord. Yet, when we compare all the end times scriptures, it must be. Since there are only two, and one that seems to be for the righteous, then Jesus had to be a part of that "first" or most honorable resurrection as the "firstfruits." That in itself blows the theory that the "first" or chief of resurrections is a one time event. Rather, it will include all the righteous for all time.

 

[Jamdoc]

For once you say something that makes sense. This doesn't make sense, because EVERYTHING I write makes sense!

No, those that rose when Jesus rose would of necessity be OT saints. I agree, bad to base doctrine on the elders. Good point.

Just so you know, someone who has been to heaven and returned to testify, saw a difference in Abraham's appearance compared with other saints and asked Him about it. Abraham said that a few of the OT Saints already had their resurrection bodies. Just saying....it is not scripture, but it seems to agree with scripture.

There's no mention of multiple waves of resurrections at multiple comings of our Lord. Yet, when we compare all the end times scriptures, it must be. Since there are only two, and one that seems to be for the righteous, then Jesus had to be a part of that "first" or most honorable resurrection as the "firstfruits." That in itself blows the theory that the "first" or chief of resurrections is a one time event. Rather, it will include all the righteous for all time.

Context is important.
John wasn't meaning first resurrection as in the first person resurrected ever, but rather the first resurrection of the second coming.
If you view it absolutely well then you might as well be amill because that's how they see it a "spiritual resurrection" but Jesus was resurrected in a body, and we will be like Him.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Context is important.

And that's why in Rev 15, those that get victory over the beast are not the Church. They are Jews as they sing the song of Moses. They are the seed of the Woman (the nation of Israel). The seed of the woman is the twelve tribes across the earth. When we keep things in context we see that the Church is already in heaven where they are taken in the secret rapture.

Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

 

[iamlamad]

Context is important.
John wasn't meaning first resurrection as in the first person resurrected ever, but rather the first resurrection of the second coming.
If you view it absolutely well then you might as well be amill because that's how they see it a "spiritual resurrection" but Jesus was resurrected in a body, and we will be like Him.

"first" is just an English translation of a Greek word that could have been translated as "most honorable" or "chief" of resurrections. Why? What does that mean? It means, there is one resurrection that covers all the righteous and another that covers all the sinners. They are just titles.

In spite of what many think, the righteous were / are / will be not all resurrected at the same time, as the resurrection of Jesus proves. The resurrection of the church happens one day, but around 7 years later another group is resurrected - all under this title as "the first."

This has to be so, because we all know that Jesus rose long before any other person or group. It also has to be so because of the different times of the rapture of the church and the rapture of the OT saints: one group before the week, the other group on the last day of the week. None of this is amil. It is just understanding what is written. None of these are "spiritual" resurrections either; all are of dead bodies raised back to life.

 

[iamlamad]

And that's why in Rev 15, those that get victory over the beast are not the Church. They are Jews as they sing the song of Moses. They are the seed of the Woman (the nation of Israel). The seed of the woman is the twelve tribes across the earth. When we keep things in context we see that the Church is already in heaven where they are taken in the secret rapture.

Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

You don't think Gentile believers will get the victory over the Beast by losing their head?
And any Jew in this group must then be a Jew that has learned that Jesus is His Messiah, else they would not show up in heaven.

ANY person, no matter Jew or Gentile, must be trusting in Jesus to end up in heaven.
I see no reason why Gentiles cannot sing the song of Moses, or the song of the Lamb.

 

[Choose Wisely]

You don't think Gentile believers will get the victory over the Beast by losing their head?
And any Jew in this group must then be a Jew that has learned that Jesus is His Messiah, else they would not show up in heaven.

ANY person, no matter Jew or Gentile, must be trusting in Jesus to end up in heaven.
I see no reason why Gentiles cannot sing the song of Moses, or the song of the Lamb.

Never quite able to understand, can you. The Church is already in heaven when this event occurs. Are you unable to comprehend that the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. You continually chase your tail around, never able to comprehend that the wrath of God is over at the 7th trump when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord. You can never see that the great tribulation occurs at the 5th seal and also in Rev 14. The wrath of God is the trumpets and then you get another view in the vials.

As to your comment that the Jews must receive Christ to go to heaven, the Jews cannot see that Christ is the Messiah, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Then they will see and as they are the seed of the woman, they will be the ones going through the great tribulation. Do you know the song of Moses? I didn't think so.

 

[Jamdoc]

Never quite able to understand, can you. The Church is already in heaven when this event occurs. Are you unable to comprehend that the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. You continually chase your tail around, never able to comprehend that the wrath of God is over at the 7th trump when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord. You can never see that the great tribulation occurs at the 5th seal and also in Rev 14. The wrath of God is the trumpets and then you get another view in the vials.

As to your comment that the Jews must receive Christ to go to heaven, the Jews cannot see that Christ is the Messiah, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Then they will see and as they are the seed of the woman, they will be the ones going through the great tribulation. Do you know the song of Moses? I didn't think so.

Deuteronomy 32

 

[iamlamad]

Never quite able to understand, can you. The Church is already in heaven when this event occurs. Are you unable to comprehend that the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. You continually chase your tail around, never able to comprehend that the wrath of God is over at the 7th trump when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord. You can never see that the great tribulation occurs at the 5th seal and also in Rev 14. The wrath of God is the trumpets and then you get another view in the vials.

As to your comment that the Jews must receive Christ to go to heaven, the Jews cannot see that Christ is the Messiah, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Then they will see and as they are the seed of the woman, they will be the ones going through the great tribulation. Do you know the song of Moses? I didn't think so.

Actually, all those cutting remarks are for you, because you THINK you know, when in fact, you don't.
The Church is already in heaven when this event occurs. OF COURSE the church will be in heaven: they will be raptured out just before the 6th seal - and John saw them in heaven in chapter 7.

Are you unable to comprehend that the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. OF COURSE the 70th week is for Daniel's people. That is written in chapter 9 of Daniel. But the truth is, many Gentiles left behind at the rapture will turn to God immediately after finding themselves left behind. Did you not read?

Rev. 12: 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. [Gentile believers are the remnant (Because the main load went out at the rapture) because they came out of Israel, since Jesus was an Israelite.]

never able to comprehend that the wrath of God is over at the 7th trump when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord.
Now you are showing your lack of understanding: the 7th trumpet marks the MIDPOINT of the week, and the vials filled with the wrath of God will be poured out late in the second half of the week. How is it you missed that? So the truth is, God's wrath lasts for the ENTIRE WEEK. Why? The DAY of His wrath starts before the trumpets that fill up the first half of the week, so each trumpet judgment comes with His wrath.

You can never see that the great tribulation occurs at the 5th seal As I wrote: you THINK you know, when in fact you don't. You are miles off from truth here: failing to understand John's Chronology. Chapters 4 & 5 set the TIME of the first seal to 32 AD - when Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down. It seems you overlook these verses - or just don't understand their significance:

Rev. 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. [what did Jesus prevail over to become worthy? He prevailed over death: He rose from the dead in verse 5. WHEN did Jesus send the Holy Spirit down? As soon as He ascended.]

WHEN did Jesus get the book? As soon as He ascended. And He immediately began opening the seals. So while you imagine seal 5 as the days of GT, John and the Holy Spirit are in the early church age. In short, you "jumped the gun" by 2000 years. That means your theory is 2000 years off from truth. And you suppose to teach others?

You can never see that the great tribulation occurs at the 5th seal and also in Rev 14. Finally, a spark of hope! Not two places, but here after God's warning in chapter 14, finally the days of GT begin. It is only a myth that the days of GT occur at the 5th seal. Why? Those days are caused by the Two beasts that do not show up until chapter 11! How funny you start the days of GT before those responsible even show up. Then what is it they will do to CAUSE those days? They create an image and a mark, and force people to bow and receive their mark, upon threat of death. That is the CAUSE of those days of GT. The truth then is that these two Beasts only begin working together in chapter 13, and are not ready to enforce their mark until late in chapter 14. Then the beheaded only begin to show up in chapter 15.

The truth of Revelation is that God's wrath is for the entire week, the trumpet judgments come in the first half of the week, with the 7th trumpet marking the midpoint, then the Two Beasts begin working together to create and image and a mark, and by the end of chapter 14 begin to enforce the mark and start the days of GT Jesus spoke of.

The wrath of God is the trumpets and then you get another view in the vials. Wow. How amazing you don't see the difference in 1/3 destruction and total destruction, imagining they are the same. How amazing you don't follow John's chronology and discover that the trumpets come in the first half of the week, and the vials late in the second half of the week, making it impossible they are two views of the same event. How amazing you try to teach myth as if it were truth.

As to your comment that the Jews must receive Christ to go to heaven, the Jews cannot see that Christ is the Messiah, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
A few have. I agree with you here.

Then they will see and as they are the seed of the woman, Sorry, but this is error: the Jews ARE the woman and the woman is Israel or a subset of Israel. It is Gentile believers that will become the seed of the woman. The Gentile church of today came out of the woman because the Messiah was Jewish.

they will be the ones going through the great tribulation Sorry, but every human left behind at the pretrib rapture will go through the days of GT.

I do hope you are open to learning. You could learn something here.

 

[Timtofly]

Sorry, but every human left behind at the pretrib rapture will go through the days of GT.

Not all. Many are killed before the 42 months. The sheep and wheat are already dead as well. That is what the symbolism of the angels mean, in taking their souls from their bodies. The very last to die, are only those beheaded. Any one still living after the 7 vials, will be killed at the battle of Armageddon. No more humans alive in Adam's sinful flesh. The 7th Trumpet brought Adam's 6000 years on earth to an end. All bodies dead. The hidden plan of God brought to completion, Revelation 10:7
7 "on the contrary, in the days of the sound from the seventh angel when he sounds his shofar, the hidden plan of God will be brought to completion, the Good News as he proclaimed it to his servants the prophets.”

Sin could only "reign" for 6000 years. The punishment of the sweat of the brow (labor) would only last for 6000 years. Death and decay would only last for 6000 years. Revelation 20:4 is the Resurrection of those sheep and wheat in the last and final harvest. Not the church and not any other people from the past. These enter into and enjoy the rest of the Lord on the earth for 1000 years.

The church is complete and in Paradise forever, as Paradise is the New Jerusalem.

The dead from all time, stand at the GWT at the end of the Lord's Day and cast into the lake of fire.

That is the only way to rightly divide God's Word.

Like Paul claims if the church is not complete in the Resurrection of Christ and Christ was not resurrected, then our hope is in vain. All were resurrected in Christ, not in split shifts, willy nilly by human interpretation based on human belief.

 

[FredVB]

Actually,
The Church is already in heaven when this event occurs. OF COURSE the church will be in heaven: they will be raptured out just before the 6th seal - and John saw them in heaven in chapter 7.

Are you unable to comprehend that the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. OF COURSE the 70th week is for Daniel's people. That is written in chapter 9 of Daniel. But the truth is, many Gentiles left behind at the rapture will turn to God immediately after finding themselves left behind. Did you not read?

Rev. 12: 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Some are easily tripping over their trying to understand chronology of the prophesied tribulation and do not understand the relevance of Mystery Babylon. There are already very difficult times ahead which includes believers, before any removal of believers from their being caught up from this world to be with their Lord, that will happen not to remove them from great difficulties, which Christians through history and still in some places in the world go through. It will happen to remove them from the exposure to judgment on the unrepentant wicked and destructive of the world. Yahweh God hates the destructiveness to this earth, Revelation 11:18. Believers in Mystery Babylon need to see where they are and what they should not be involved with, and get out. They should not desire to stay waiting for anything. God will yet have them called out directly but they should already be getting out. Mystery Babylon will collapse, and those who do get out still have to make their way living on their own apart from it, before the time comes that any believers are caught up to not be in the world at the time of God's judgment coming on the unrepentant wicked and destructive of the world.

 

[Timtofly]

How is Babylon still a mystery? Don't some conflate a new "one world order" with it?

 

[FredVB]

Yahweh God hates the destructiveness to this earth, Revelation 11:18. Believers in Mystery Babylon need to see where they are and what they should not be involved with, and get out. They should not desire to stay waiting for anything. God will yet have them called out directly but they should already be getting out. Mystery Babylon will collapse, and those who do get out still have to make their way living on their own apart from it, before the time comes that any believers are caught up to not be in the world at the time of God's judgment coming on the unrepentant wicked and destructive of the world.

How is Babylon still a mystery? Don't some conflate a new "one world order" with it?

How is the ancient city of Babylon still a mystery? It is known in history, so it is not much of a mystery. But Mystery Babylon means something further, as its collapse is yet in the future, though it is characterized in ways by what ancient Babylon was. But there is not general agreement on what Mystery Babylon represents, while many say their ideas, and traditions that are heard, for what it represents. Most will have it wrong up until that time, as it is remaining a mystery in actuality. Yet Mystery Babylon is characterized with what is said of it in Revelation 18. It is certainly more than one city, the collapse of one city from all history is not notable for this attention in prophecy, it is much more. The cities of all civilization are characterized by these descriptions, there is the destructiveness to this earth which belongs to God, which God hates, Revelation 11:18, from the cities of civilization. And believers are supposed to get out and away from that which God was not supporting, approving, or designating for us since Babel, which is going contrary to God, God's people need to be separate from it and not remain with it. Its destruction is coming.

 

[iamlamad]

Some are easily tripping over their trying to understand chronology of the prophesied tribulation and do not understand the relevance of Mystery Babylon. There are already very difficult times ahead which includes believers, before any removal of believers from their being caught up from this world to be with their Lord, that will happen not to remove them from great difficulties, which Christians through history and still in some places in the world go through. It will happen to remove them from the exposure to judgment on the unrepentant wicked and destructive of the world. Yahweh God hates the destructiveness to this earth, Revelation 11:18. Believers in Mystery Babylon need to see where they are and what they should not be involved with, and get out. They should not desire to stay waiting for anything. God will yet have them called out directly but they should already be getting out. Mystery Babylon will collapse, and those who do get out still have to make their way living on their own apart from it, before the time comes that any believers are caught up to not be in the world at the time of God's judgment coming on the unrepentant wicked and destructive of the world.

Thanks for answering, Fred. I wished I could agree with you, but I cannot.

First, who really is "Mystery Babylon?" If we could only believe John - he TELLS us. It is "That great city," and on another place he tells us the "great city" in his mind (and the Holy Spirit's) is the city where our Lord was crucified: Jerusalem. It is not difficult to understand why God would call Jerusalem "Mystery Babylon:" it will be from Jerusalem that the Beast and False Prophet will deceive the entire world. So God is really telling the Jews to get out of Jerusalem before the end of the 70th week, when Jerusalem will be surrounded by enemies and burned.

There is one reason why the rapture will be when it will be: God's wrath is coming and the rapture will pull the church out just before wrath. God is not going to be setting any appointments for us with His wrath.

 

[Douggg]

Never quite able to understand, can you. The Church is already in heaven when this event occurs. Are you unable to comprehend that the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. You continually chase your tail around, never able to comprehend that the wrath of God is over at the 7th trump when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord. You can never see that the great tribulation occurs at the 5th seal and also in Rev 14. The wrath of God is the trumpets and then you get another view in the vials.

The seventh trumpet begins a time segment (in the days when the 7th angel begins to sound, Revelation 10:7) which during that time segment the kingdoms of this world at the conclusion of, will have become the kingdoms of God and his Christ. "in the days of" is a figure of speech.

You are right as far as the final result. But are wrong in placing the 7th trumpet at the very end of the seven years, and the day of Jesus's return.

The 7th trumpet sounds right after the two witnesses have left this world, and the beast begins his 42 months of unhampered rule.

And you are right that the church, the current body of Christ, will have been raptured before then. But there are them who become Christians after the church has been removed from the world.... which would be considered the great tribulation saints.

When the 7th trumpet sounds, just after the second half of the 7 years begin, there is the war in the second heaven and Satan and his angles cast down to earth, as God starts removing their hold over the kingdoms of this earth. Finally completed a time, times, half time later - the day Jesus returns to this earth.

 

[iamlamad]

The seventh trumpet begins a time segment (in the days when the 7th angel begins to sound, Revelation 10:7) which during that time segment the kingdoms of this world at the conclusion of, will have become the kingdoms of God and his Christ. "in the days of" is a figure of speech.

You are right as far as the final result. But are wrong in placing the 7th trumpet at the very end of the seven years, and the day of Jesus's return.

The 7th trumpet sounds right after the two witnesses have left this world, and the beast begins his 42 months of unhampered rule.

And you are right that the church, the current body of Christ, will have been raptured before then. But there are them who become Christians after the church has been removed from the world.... which would be considered the great tribulation saints.

When the 7th trumpet sounds, just after the second half of the 7 years begin, there is the war in the second heaven and Satan and his angles cast down to earth, as God starts removing their hold over the kingdoms of this earth. Finally completed a time, times, half time later - the day Jesus returns to this earth.

I cannot agree with either of you: the 7th trumpet marks the exact midpoint of the week. The 1260 days of the two witnesses will be exactly as the timing of the other 4 mentions of the 3 1/2 year period of time: for the last half of the week.

11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. [This is just days before the dividing of week: the 7th trumpet.]

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. [Who is to tread? This is about the man of sin moving to Jerusalem so he will be here in 3 more days to enter the temple. He will come with Gentile armies. These 42 months are for the last half of the week. Notice John's chronology: Rev. 6:2 is only seconds after the 7th trumpet abomination. So 11:2 is a few days before the midpoint, and 12:6 is seconds after.]

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. [Here most people have a problem with chronology. They imagine there 1260 days must come before the 7th trumpet midpoint. They are mistaken. ]

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
[These verses were written as a parenthesis. They are not a part of John's chronology. They don't die just before the 7th trumpet. The truth is, they BEGIN their testimony just 3.5 days before the 7th trumpet that marks the midpoint, and testify for 1260 days - which will take them to just 3.5 days before the end of the week. They die here.]
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
[The end of the parenthesis]
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
[The 3.5 days are over and the man of sin enters the temple to declare he is God.]
15 And the seventh angel sounded... [It is the exact midpoint of the week. This event marks the division point.]

 

[Douggg]

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
[The 3.5 days are over and the man of sin enters the temple to declare he is God.]
15 And the seventh angel sounded... [It is the exact midpoint of the week. This event marks the division point.]

1260 days + 3 1/2 days is 1263 1/2 days slightly into the second half.

 

[iamlamad]

1260 days + 3 1/2 days is 1263 1/2 days slightly into the second half.

Why add anything? They begin just 3.5 days before the midpoint, and end just 3.5 days before the end of the week - so they testify for 1260 days - exactly as written. Most of their testimony will be in the second half. They show up and begin right in John's Chronology where they are first mentioned. It is 3.5 days before the abomination that will divide the week. They show up then because the man of sin just moved to Jerusalem with his Gentile armies.

 

[Timtofly]

The 7th Trumpet is for a week of days. The 42 months given to Satan, the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses, this time frame splits the week in half. The 7th Trumpet then sounds for the whole 3.5 years, plus the first 4 days, and then the 4 days after. The two witnesses lay dead for 3.5 days of the last 4 days of the sound of the 7th Trumpet, and then leave Sunday morning. Between 5pm and 6pm Sunday is the battle of Armageddon. The 7 vials are poured out while the 2 witnesses lay there in Jerusalem. At 6pm when the battle of Armageddon is finished, is when the 7th Trumpet stops. That is the end, 6pm is the start of Monday and the new millennium.

When the 7th Trumpet starts 6pm Saturday evening going all day Sunday the war in heaven between Michael and Satan is when Satan is cast out. Remember that at least 5 months prior, or more, Satan was allowed to open the pit and release his angels. They were waiting for this very time period of 5 months to torment humans. The 7th Trumpet defeats them and they can no longer have access to heaven. It is then Satan is allowed to split this week in half. Christ and the saints in Jerusalem leave for heaven, and Satan is given full authority. Only the 2 witnesses are left to deal with humanity. Humanity can only escape Satan by having their heads chopped off. Those who keep their heads and worship Satan will be marked with the curse 666, and their names are no longer found in the Lamb's book of life.

The 7th Trumpet is supposed to be the end of Adam's 6000 year punishment. The command 6 days thou shalt labor will be fulfilled at the 7th Trumpet. Those who follow Satan refuse to see it God's way. God gives them their desires, and will later claim He never knew them. That is what the last half is about. Rejecting God to the point, they refuse to know God, and God removes them from His memory as well. The only way to endure is to have your head chopped off.

 

[iamlamad]

The 7th Trumpet is for a week of days. The 42 months given to Satan, the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses, this time frame splits the week in half. The 7th Trumpet then sounds for the whole 3.5 years, plus the first 4 days, and then the 4 days after. The two witnesses lay dead for 3.5 days of the last 4 days of the sound of the 7th Trumpet, and then leave Sunday morning. Between 5pm and 6pm Sunday is the battle of Armageddon. The 7 vials are poured out while the 2 witnesses lay there in Jerusalem. At 6pm when the battle of Armageddon is finished, is when the 7th Trumpet stops. That is the end, 6pm is the start of Monday and the new millennium.

When the 7th Trumpet starts 6pm Saturday evening going all day Sunday the war in heaven between Michael and Satan is when Satan is cast out. Remember that at least 5 months prior, or more, Satan was allowed to open the pit and release his angels. They were waiting for this very time period of 5 months to torment humans. The 7th Trumpet defeats them and they can no longer have access to heaven. It is then Satan is allowed to split this week in half. Christ and the saints in Jerusalem leave for heaven, and Satan is given full authority. Only the 2 witnesses are left to deal with humanity. Humanity can only escape Satan by having their heads chopped off. Those who keep their heads and worship Satan will be marked with the curse 666, and their names are no longer found in the Lamb's book of life.

The 7th Trumpet is supposed to be the end of Adam's 6000 year punishment. The command 6 days thou shalt labor will be fulfilled at the 7th Trumpet. Those who follow Satan refuse to see it God's way. God gives them their desires, and will later claim He never knew them. That is what the last half is about. Rejecting God to the point, they refuse to know God, and God removes them from His memory as well. The only way to endure is to have your head chopped off.

The 7th Trumpet is for a week of days. Prove it with scripture, else it is imagination.

The 42 months given to Satan, the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses, this time frame splits the week in half. Are you saying one of these two is in the first half?

The 7th Trumpet then sounds for the whole 3.5 years, plus the first 4 days, and then the 4 days after. Pure imagination - cannot be proven with scripture. The trumpet is sounded by an angel, by blowing into it. Sorry, no angel has that kind of lung power. The truth is, John does not tell us how long a trumpet sounds. It is probable that events that happen when a trumpet sounds, take longer than the trumpet sound itself.

You have too much imagination to continue.