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Choose Wisely

Forgiven
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Very impressive work. I read all of it. I was most impressed that you were able to conclude that there will be a pre trib rapture and a gathering after that.

Have you considered that the gathering will be a gathering from heaven and earth.
Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

It will be the Church that is gathered from heaven (raptured pre trib) and it will be the 12 tribes that are gathered from the earth. There will be two harvests, as you say................the fig tree has two harvests.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

Israel served other Gods...........so they would not be the first harvest.

Jer 8
20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

Another thing you could consider. You are correct that the seals are the tribulation. The tribulation is over when the gathering of Matt 24 (Rev 6) occurs. The 70th week is over then. You are saying that the gathering is at the middle of the week. I don't believe that is correct. The gathering is at the end of the week............and then the wrath of God begins. It is the nation of Israel that goes through the wrath of God.........in a place of protection. The Church is gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes are gatherer from the earth. They (the twelve tribes) are instructed to look up......your redemption draws nigh. All of the Elect go to heaven for the marriage supper and return to earth with the Lord after the marriage supper.

Just something for your to consider. Really enjoyed reading your hard work. Thanks...............
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi Bible Highlighter,

I agree with much of what you posted however there are a few details that I would like to discuss with you. The first one regards number 4. Earth is Purified by fire.

I believe you are misunderstanding the Days of God`s prophetic calendar.

....I....(Day of Christ).....I.......(Day of the Lord).......I......(Day of God).........>

Day of Christ - from ascension to catching away,
Day of the Lord - from tribulation, through the millennium, (& finally earth purified by fire)
Day of God - New heavens and New Earth and on into eternity.

The purifying does NOT occur after the tribulation (but after the millennium) for -

`This water flows towards the eastern region, goes down into the valley, and enters the sea. When it reaches the sea its waters are healed. And it shall be that every living thing that moves, wherever the rivers go, will live.` (Ez. 47: 8)

This is the living water that flows from under Jerusalem when the Lord splits the Mount of Olives when His feet touches it. This purification by water is after the tribulation, while the final purification will be by fire at the end of the Millennium before the New heavens and New Earth.

regards, Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi Bible Highlighter,

This is my second point for discussion with you. The Old Testament saints are in the General Assembly in the angelic realm, (3rd heaven) and are awaiting their city which was promised them.

`...you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the General Assembly and Church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, TO THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT, to Jesus...` (Heb. 12: 22 & 23)

These `just men, (& women)` are those of the OT saints.

`But now they desire a better, that is a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 16)

Only the Body of Christ is IN Christ and has a different inheritance - with Christ on His throne.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

Marilyn.
 
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iamlamad

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You have made this FAR more complicated that it really is, and in fact, you are simply mistaken on timing.

God "marked" (His word not mine) the entire 70th week for easy finding: the 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the 7th vial ends the week.
It is easy to see then that the trumpets make up the first half of the week and the vials are in the second half.

Many people have preconceived ideas that the week begins with the first seal, but that is totally wrong.

The purpose of chapters 4 and 5 are to set the context and timing of the first seal. In chapter 5 John saw Jesus ascended into the throne room and send the Holy Spirit down. We all know this happened: the Holy Spirit was sent down when Jesus ascended. John, in vision form looking back in time SAW this event. Why would John record the Holy Spirit being sent down in his 95 AD writing? It was the Holy Spirit setting the timing of the first seal.

You see, God had a problem: He wanted to introduce John to the book with 7 seals, but wanted to start this story while the book was still in the hands of the Father. Out of necessity then, God had to somehow show John in the vision that what he was seeing was history, but future. How did God accomplish this?

God showed John a throne room with Jesus MISSING: not seen at the right hand of the father where John would have expected to see Him.

God showed John that the Holy Spirit was there IN the throne room, when John would have expected Him to be already sent down.

Finally, God showed John a search for one worthy to take the book - but that first search ended in failure - when John would have expected Jesus to have been found.

WHEN was there a time when Jesus would not have been at the right hand of the Father? of course, while He was on the earth.

WHEN would the Holy Spirit have been in the throne room? Of course, before Jesus ascended to send Him down.

WHEN would Jesus have NOT been found worthy to take the book? That would be before He died and rose again.

Next, God showed John that Jesus WAS suddenly found worthy - which shows us that Jesus had just risen from the dead to become worthy to take the book.

Finally, God showed John the moment Jesus ascended back into the throne room - right after telling Mary not to touch Him for He had not yet ascended.

All this was to set the timing of the first seal as to the moment Jesus ascended and got the book into His own hands.

The first seal then was opened in 32 AD. It COULD NOT POSSIBLY represent the Beast. It could not possibly be the start of the 70th week. What then is the first seal? It is the CHURCH taking the GOSPEL to the nations. This is confirmed by at least one commentary.

Seals 2 through 4 are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel.
Seal 5 is the martyrs of the church age. There will still be church age martyrs being added to this number UNTIL the pretrib rapture ends the church age.

Then the next event - the 6th seal - starts the DAY of wrath of God on earth.

You put a LOT of time into this! Blessings!
 
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Douggg

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God "marked" (His word not mine) the entire 70th week for easy finding: the 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the 7th vial ends the week.
7th seal - entry into middle of the 7 years.
7th trumpet - just after the midpoint.
7th vial - at the very end of the 7 years.
 
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Timtofly

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There is no Antichrist in the seals either. The seals deal with the church. Those sealed in the Lamb's book of life. Nothing else, and Satan is exposed in the 6th seal.
 
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ItIsFinished!

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There is no Antichrist in the seals either. The seals deal with the church. Those sealed in the Lamb's book of life. Nothing else, and Satan is exposed in the 6th seal.
The Church will be removed before the Seals are opened.
I thought this was a Pre-trib forum??
 
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Timtofly

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The Church will be removed before the Seals are opened.
I thought this was a Pre-trib forum??
Did you read the rules of this forum? Did you read the first post of this thread? Some here think the seals were opened in the 1st century. This forum I doubt has any one who agrees 100% unless they are the same person under different log ins.
 
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iamlamad

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The Church will be removed before the Seals are opened.
I thought this was a Pre-trib forum??

The Church will be removed before the Seals are opened.
This is myth. Go back and study chapters 4 & 5 that show us WHEN Jesus got the book into His hands: it was right after He ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down.

Next, discover the parallels between Jesus' discourse and the first seals - and note well, Jesus said "the end is not yet." He did not begin to speak of end times until verse 14 in Matthew 24.
 
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iamlamad

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There is no Antichrist in the seals either. The seals deal with the church. Those sealed in the Lamb's book of life. Nothing else, and Satan is exposed in the 6th seal.
There is no Antichrist in the seals either. Brilliant! Truth!
 
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ItIsFinished!

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There is no Antichrist in the seals either. Brilliant! Truth!
Yes there is . He is the first seal that is opened.
The rider on the white horse with a bow is the Anti-Christ . Rev. 6-2 (KJV).
 
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The Groom (Christ) removes the Bride (Church) before His divine judgment is handed down to a lost and rejecting world .
The Church is not left to suffer His wrath.
 
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Timtofly

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Yes there is . He is the first seal that is opened.
The rider on the white horse with a bow is the Anti-Christ . Rev. 6-2 (KJV).
Covid19 is the antichrist then. Who knew it would be a virus that unites the world into one body to figure out the cure to what is killing people all over the world?
 
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Covid19 is the antichrist then. Who knew it would be a virus that unites the world into one body to figure out the cure to what is killing people all over the world?
Covid19 is a virus.
The Anti-christ is a human man infused (if you will) by Satan himself to carry out his Hellish agenda upon earth for 7 years during the 7 year Tribulation with the help of the False Prophet.
 
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Timtofly

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Covid19 is a virus.
The Anti-christ is a human man infused (if you will) by Satan himself to carry out his Hellish agenda upon earth for 7 years during the 7 year Tribulation with the help of the False Prophet.
I know that the Antichrist does not come until Chapter 13. There will be one who is announced as a Messiah, but it is not the white horse in chapter 6. The Rapture happens first.
 
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I know that the Antichrist does not come until Chapter 13. There will be one who is announced as a Messiah, but it is not the white horse in chapter 6. The Rapture happens first.
Yes the Rapture happens first.
Rev. 6-2 the Anti-christ is shown as riding a white horse with a bow.
The first Seal.
 
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I thought the AC was revealed first and then come to the rapture immediately after...
No. The Church/Bride are removed before he is revealed.
The whole point of the 7 year Tribulation is to judge a rejecting world, but mainly for God to focus on Israel. The Church is not appointed to the wrath of God. The Church is the Body of Christ . Those in Christ are washed in the blood of Christ.
Those left behind however are not hence the Tribulation. The Church Age/ Age of Grace ends when the Church is removed .
 
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keras

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7th seal - entry into the 7 years.
7th trumpet - just after the midpoint.
7th vial - at the very end of the 7 years.
Please explain why you place the Sixth Seal at Jesus Return? On your 'charts'.
After, or at the Seventh Vial.

I do know that Revelation 19:15 mentions the wrath of God, but in a past tense.
The clincher that the Sixth Seal Day of the Lord's wrath, is some time before the Return, is how Jesus Returns in garments already splashed in blood. Rev 6:13.
Isaiah 63:1-6 describes that terrible Day; plainly not His Return in glory!
 
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