My latest questions! :)

[Suzannah]

I appreciate all of you being so helpful and willing to answer all my lame questions....I just so want to be respectful of other people and the custom....as one of our Early Church Fathers said, "When in Rome, do as the Romans." (St. Augustine I think??)


Hugs to all of you!

1. I have noticed that in my church, all the women wear dresses, with black tights, and seem to cover up a LOT. Should I be wearing dresses and coats/sweaters that cover everything? One lady keeps her overcoat, completely buttoned and belted with the lapels turned over each other toward the centre. She has done this every service I have been to.

2. I also saw that the ladies all wear scarves on their heads. Do I need to do this in order to be respectful? Does it have to be any particular color? I so want to be respectful and don't want to seem irrreverent.

3. In my prayer corner, I have hung my icons. Are they supposed to be hung in any particular way???? I hung the triptych of Jesus on top just because that seemed appropriate.

Please help the village idiot(me), out here!

Thank you!

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

I appreciate all of you being so helpful and willing to answer all my lame questions....I just so want to be respectful of other people and the custom....as one of our Early Church Fathers said, "When in Rome, do as the Romans." (St. Augustine I think??)

St. Augustine said that?:o

P.S. I'll let somebody else handle your other questions since I'm Greek Orthodox.

 

[Moros]

1. I have noticed that in my church, all the women wear dresses, with black tights, and seem to cover up a LOT. Should I be wearing dresses and coats/sweaters that cover everything? One lady keeps her overcoat, completely buttoned and belted with the lapels turned over each other toward the centre. She has done this every service I have been to.

2. I also saw that the ladies all wear scarves on their heads. Do I need to do this in order to be respectful? Does it have to be any particular color? I so want to be respectful and don't want to seem irrreverent.

3. In my prayer corner, I have hung my icons. Are they supposed to be hung in any particular way???? I hung the triptych of Jesus on top just because that seemed appropriate.

1. It's probably just a display of modesty. I wouldn't go overboard, but the less skin the better. (IMO)

2. scarves are a russian cultural custom.

3. i dont think it matters.

 

[MariaRegina]

I appreciate all of you being so helpful and willing to answer all my lame questions....I just so want to be respectful of other people and the custom....as one of our Early Church Fathers said, "When in Rome, do as the Romans." (St. Augustine I think??)


Hugs to all of you!

1. I have noticed that in my church, all the women wear dresses, with black tights, and seem to cover up a LOT. Should I be wearing dresses and coats/sweaters that cover everything? One lady keeps her overcoat, completely buttoned and belted with the lapels turned over each other toward the centre. She has done this every service I have been to.

Dear Suzannah:

My priest told me to always wear my Sunday best, with skirts or dresses preferred that hang well below the knees. Long sleeved shirts are preferred or wear a blazer that covers a short sleeved/sleeveless shirt. Don't wear the plunging neckline and you'll be okay. Coats and sweaters are not necessary; however, little old ladies tend to get cold.

2. I also saw that the ladies all wear scarves on their heads. Do I need to do this in order to be respectful? Does it have to be any particular color? I so want to be respectful and don't want to seem irrreverent.

Ask the priest. Some churches have a policy that women should wear a head covering especially if they are going to receive Holy Communion. This is especially true with the Coptics, ROCOR, patriarchal Russian and Serbians.

3. In my prayer corner, I have hung my icons. Are they supposed to be hung in any particular way???? I hung the triptych of Jesus on top just because that seemed appropriate.

Please help the village idiot(me), out here!

Thank you!

Some people place Jesus in the center with the other Icons surrounding Him or they place him at the top. Others place the arrangement similar to that found in a church. Again, ask your priest, as he will come to bless your apartment if you ask him.

Hope this helps.

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear Suzannah:

This is something I found out in a very embarrassing way:

Don't wear white during Great Lent (starts on February 23 this year). I made the mistake of visiting an Orthodox Church when I was an inquirer on Good Friday. Because of the Calendar difference, this was in 1994, we were 5 weeks off. So I was the only person in the whole church wearing white -- was my face red. Everyone else wore dark blue or black.

The priest gave me a general rule that most laity follow -- wear colors similar to what the priest wears. So during Christmas the ladies tend to wear a lot of red. During Lent, you will see more subdued purples, blues, browns, blacks and greys. Then during Pascha, the light pastels and whites.

In general, the Greek and Serbian ladies tend to wear more subdued colors for the Divine Liturgy. The widows will wear black, especially those from Greece or the Old Country.

Hope this helps

Lovingly yours in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

 

[Matrona]

1. I have noticed that in my church, all the women wear dresses, with black tights, and seem to cover up a LOT. Should I be wearing dresses and coats/sweaters that cover everything? One lady keeps her overcoat, completely buttoned and belted with the lapels turned over each other toward the centre. She has done this every service I have been to.

Maybe she was just cold...

I think these women are just being modest. I would suggest wearing long skirts and long-sleeved shirts, or dresses like that. By necessity most of the time I have to wear more casual clothes than I would like. But if I had my way (and perhaps some money ) I would wear long skirts and scarves.

2. I also saw that the ladies all wear scarves on their heads. Do I need to do this in order to be respectful? Does it have to be any particular color? I so want to be respectful and don't want to seem irrreverent.

In some of the more traditionalist churches, this is more common. Headcoverings are not required in most churches; it is simply a pious custom. I like the idea of wearing a scarf and I would if I had one (although I'd like to wear dresses or skirts with it and I don't have many of those). As with so many things in Orthodoxy, the best thing to do is to ask your priest!

3. In my prayer corner, I have hung my icons. Are they supposed to be hung in any particular way???? I hung the triptych of Jesus on top just because that seemed appropriate.

That is fine. Since Orthodox homes are "little churches", you may wish to imitate the placement of icons on the iconostasis--an icon of Christ Pantokrator (He holds His right hand up in blessing and a Gospel book in His left) on your right, the Theotokos to His right, John the Baptist to His left and a special saint to you (perhaps a saint you would like to have as your patron) to the right of the Theotokos. So from left to right that would be the patron saint, the Theotokos, Christ Pantokrator, and John the Baptist.

And don't call yourself the village idiot, you are very smart indeed and a blessing to our forum!

 

[Matrona]

In general, the Greek and Serbian ladies tend to wear more subdued colors for the Divine Liturgy. The widows will wear black, especially those from Greece or the Old Country.

Dear chanter,

About the liturgical colors... I have never figured them all out. Could you tell us what they all mean and when they are worn?

I try to wear the most subdued colors I can to liturgy. Dark blue, dark green, mulberry, etc. The brightest color I will wear (unless I absolutely have to do otherwise) is medium blue. I wish I had nicer clothes to wear but I can't help it right now. I feel bad about it.

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear chanter,

About the liturgical colors... I have never figured them all out. Could you tell us what they all mean and when they are worn?

I try to wear the most subdued colors I can to liturgy. Dark blue, dark green, mulberry, etc. The brightest color I will wear (unless I absolutely have to do otherwise) is medium blue. I wish I had nicer clothes to wear but I can't help it right now. I feel bad about it.

One priest said that we shouldn't be looking to see what others are wearing. However, the Greeks have a reputation for wearing the latest fashions. Here on the west coast, many Greek Orthodox Churches will have an annual fashion show and a Greek festival as fundraisers.

From what I have read, the vestment colors were a western tradition that the Eastern Church borrowed from the Latins. Therefore, in poor Russian Churches, the priest may only own one gold and perhaps one white vestment. The gold he will wear year round, while the white vestment is reserved for Pascha, weddings and baptisms.

Red stands for joy or for the feast day of martyrs. So at Christmas time the priest wears red vestments during Advent in preparation for the Nativity. (In the Latin church they wear purple or pink vestments during Advent. The Latins reserve red for the feast of Pentecost and for the feast days of martyrs.)

Purple stands for repentance. It is used during Great Lent. (The Latins use purple for both Advent and Lent.)

Blue is used for the feast days of the Theotokos. (The Latins also use blue vestments in her honor.)

White is used for Pascha, weddings and baptisms. It symbolizes the Light of Christ.

Gold is a kingly color and is used most of the time in Russian Churches.

Green is the color of Pentecost and the Sundays following Pentecost. (In the Latin Churches, green is used to represent days in which no saints are celebrated, called "ferial" days or for the Sundays after Pentecost.) In some churches, branches of trees are cut and brought into the Church at Pentecost. We are the branches.

Hope this helps.

 

[Super Mickey]

2. I also saw that the ladies all wear scarves on their heads. Do I need to do this in order to be respectful? Does it have to be any particular color? I so want to be respectful and don't want to seem irrreverent.

King James Version of the Bible
Book of 1 Corinthians
Chapter 11

11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

11:4
Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

11:5
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

11:6
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

11:7
For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

11:8
For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

11:9
Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

11:10
For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

11:11
Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

11:12
For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

11:13
Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

11:14
Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

11:15
But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

11:16
But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

 

[prodromos]

1. I have noticed that in my church, all the women wear dresses, with black tights, and seem to cover up a LOT. Should I be wearing dresses and coats/sweaters that cover everything? One lady keeps her overcoat, completely buttoned and belted with the lapels turned over each other toward the centre. She has done this every service I have been to.

2. I also saw that the ladies all wear scarves on their heads. Do I need to do this in order to be respectful? Does it have to be any particular color? I so want to be respectful and don't want to seem irrreverent.

3. In my prayer corner, I have hung my icons. Are they supposed to be hung in any particular way???? I hung the triptych of Jesus on top just because that seemed appropriate.

1. You are at Divine Liturgy to worship God, not to show off your taste in fashion . Modesty is key but I think some of the women in your church might be taking it to extremes and are in fact drawing attention to themselves (I hope I'm wrong though, I often am).

2. Women covering their heads in church is biblical though not manditory (in some churches they hand scarves to women who "forgot" to bring theirs ). I don't believe it is cultural as such as Russia has been Orthodox for 1000 years and it is difficult to know if head scarves were worn before orthodoxy. Wearing a scarf is an act of obedience though and will be richly blessed. Father Averky on Monachos.net related the story of a Russian woman in America who wore her scarf despite none of the other women in church wearing them. She had to undergo chemotherapy, but Panagia told her that because of her faithfullness she would not lose a single hair during treatment (and she didn't!). She apparently had very beautiful hair.

3. If possible, your icons should be on an eastern wall so that you are facing east when you look at your icons (all Orthodox churches are built East-West)

John.

 

[prodromos]

11:14
Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

IIRC this translates better as "styled hair" rather than "long hair", having to do with men fussing over the appearance of their hair. I think the majority of the saints and especially Christ had long hair. Have a look at your icons .

John.

 

[Super Mickey]

IIRC this translates better as "styled hair" rather than "long hair", having to do with men fussing over the appearance of their hair. I think the majority of the saints and especially Christ had long hair. Have a look at your icons .

John.

:notme: I didn't make the translation I just quoted it
w ww.cforc.com/kjv/1_Corinthians/11.html

 

[Suzannah]

Thank you to everyone who responded! I will get a scarf (haven't owned one in years) and I will wear simple clothes.

p.s: Andreas: yes, he really said it I found it in a book entitled "The Early Church Fathers"
(I really think he only meant it in a geographical sense.)

 

[Matrona]

Blue is used for the feast days of the Theotokos. (The Latins also use blue vestments in her honor.)

My priest wears blue vestments for baptisms... I wonder why? (You can see it in my picture. I don't think he has white, otherwise I guess he would have worn them at Pascha too.) At mine I had wondered if it was just because we were still during Holy Week. But I saw another baptism that was after Pentecost and it was the same way. Also when our bishop was here, he wore blue for the liturgy, too.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

Thank you to everyone who responded! I will get a scarf (haven't owned one in years) and I will wear simple clothes.

p.s: Andreas: yes, he really said it I found it in a book entitled "The Early Church Fathers"
(I really think he only meant it in a geographical sense.)

WOW! That's pretty cool to know, thanks.

 

[Matthias]

I wasn't aware of such bizzaire dress codes!

 

[Suzannah]

I finally got up the courage to ask Father James wife about this. She told me: "Many of these women are new to Orthodoxy and they want to experience ALL of it, including the ethnic Serbian traditional ways. It has nothing to do with piety, but is simply how they are expressing themselves right now. In some churches in the old country, you would see the headscarves and more modest clothing than we are used to in the States. No one expects you to wear anything in particular. Modesty should be important in any church, Orthodox or not. Just wear what you've always worn; you've always looked fine to me."

 

[Oblio]

You see this in many of the 'traditional' Russian churches. Converts who have not a drop of Russian/Slavic blood but think that now that they are Orthodox, they are Russian. While there is nothing inherently wrong with this, it is important that ones zeal for the culture does not overcome your zeal for Christ. It is quite easy to fall into the temptations of legalism and prelest.

 

[Photini]

Converts who have not a drop of Russian/Slavic blood but think that now that they are Orthodox, they are Russian.

LoL...after my Baptism, someone came up to me and jokingly said...."Now you are Greek! Now you must also learn to speak Greek!"

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

3. If possible, your icons should be on an eastern wall so that you are facing east when you look at your icons (all Orthodox churches are built East-West)

John.

Did not know this, what is the reason?