My interactions with libearls on this site.

[desmalia]

Des this is a SUPERB post (as usual). <img src=\"http://www3.christianforums.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"\" title=\"Thumbsup\" smilieid=\"89\" class=\"inlineimg\" />

Lots of interesting points I hadn\'t thought about; like the angle people
are coming from (sin) & why it doesn\'t work.
That\'s very true - but I do think a sin angle can work in talking w/ people
but only if the Lord\'s been working in their spirit first & lead them
to hearing instead of shutting it out.

& the thread questions that they don\'t really want answers to....
I don\'t go in there to know what they do :/

But it\'s SO true that going after sin just emboldens them to hang
onto the sin that much more in rebellion. I used to be like that in my
younger years w/ my music & alcohol.
The more I heard them preaching against it, the more fond of it
I got. Paul mentions that about the Law tho too.
He said something to the effect that since it\'s in the law, it makes us
WANT to do those things all the more - the minute they\'re off limits,
our interest in it peaks.

CRAZY. I guess it\'s just sin nature that brings that up in us.

Anyways, I sure wish I knew what was going on with the programming
of this site that keeps your computer wacked out.
I don\'t want you to have to stay away so long, but I really do
understand that you cant\' hardly take it anymore.

You almost have to type out a post on Notepad, copy it,
then slam it into a post & submit it... but it looks like you can\'t even
format it once you do paste it in.
<img src=\"http://www3.christianforums.com/images/smilies/sigh.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"\" title=\"sigh\" smilieid=\"65\" class=\"inlineimg\" />

[SIZE=\"4\"][COLOR=\"indigo\"][COLOR=\"red\"]MERRY CHRISTMAS[/COLOR] to you & your husband,[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=\"4\"][COLOR=\"indigo\"]I hope you have a really special holiday & God bless[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=\"4\"][COLOR=\"indigo\"]your new year sister.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
I hope to see you around still. <img src=\"http://www3.christianforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"\" title=\"hug\" smilieid=\"51\" class=\"inlineimg\" /> <img src=\"http://www3.christianforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"\" title=\"hug\" smilieid=\"51\" class=\"inlineimg\" /> <img src=\"http://www3.christianforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"\" title=\"hug\" smilieid=\"51\" class=\"inlineimg\" />

Great points Nadiine, and thanks!! Yes, the programming on this site is driving me batty. And I\'m noticing more and more people seem to be getting booted off now. So hopefully the issue will be addressed soon. As long as I sign in through a proxy server it lets me stay signed in. But then all I get is these ugly posts with errant code mixed throughout. And yep, no more graphics or formatting. Oh well.

 

[Nadiine]

Great points Nadiine, and thanks!! Yes, the programming on this site is driving me batty. And I\'m noticing more and more people seem to be getting booted off now. So hopefully the issue will be addressed soon. As long as I sign in through a proxy server it lets me stay signed in. But then all I get is these ugly posts with errant code mixed throughout. And yep, no more graphics or formatting. Oh well.

Ya I thought you were going slash happy there at first.


Quite a few times the site's been down the past few days, & then
I get major page load slow down & time outs....
so they're doing something.
I HOPE it gets fixed, I know how irritating it gets after awhile.

I'm glad you've hung in this long tho. Should I pray for patience
for you? lol

 

[desmalia]

Ya I thought you were going slash happy there at first.
<img src=\"http://www3.christianforums.com/images/smilies/kawaii.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"\" title=\"Kawaii\" smilieid=\"66\" class=\"inlineimg\" /> <img src=\"http://www3.christianforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"\" title=\"razz\" smilieid=\"32\" class=\"inlineimg\" /> <img src=\"http://www3.christianforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"\" title=\"hug\" smilieid=\"51\" class=\"inlineimg\" />

Quite a few times the site\'s been down the past few days, & then
I get major page load slow down & time outs....
so they\'re doing something.
I HOPE it gets fixed, I know how irritating it gets after awhile.

I\'m glad you\'ve hung in this long tho. Should I pray for patience
for you? lol <img src=\"http://www3.christianforums.com/images/smilies/saint.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"\" title=\"holy\" smilieid=\"52\" class=\"inlineimg\" /> <img src=\"http://www3.christianforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"\" title=\"razz\" smilieid=\"32\" class=\"inlineimg\" />

LOL, YES PLEEEEEEEASE!

 

[Sitswithamouse]

Here is something else that Liberals have deluded themselves into thinking. This is reflected also in post 229 where it says "Even Nuns and the clergy were openly homosexual and at the time Leviticus was seen by most clergy to have been abolished along with animal sacrifice because of the atonement of Jesus."

We can see what the earlier Church thought of this notion by looking at the quotes of prominent Church authorities throughout the ages. I'll post just a couple. More are at the link.

Link

Tertullian
"[A]ll other frenzies of the lusts which exceed the laws of nature, and are impious toward both [human] bodies and the sexes, we banish, not only from the threshold but also from all shelter of the Church, for they are not sins so much as monstrosities" (Modesty 4 [A.D. 220]).

Augustine
"[T]hose shameful acts against nature, such as were committed in Sodom, ought everywhere and always to be detested and punished. If all nations were to do such things, they would be held guilty of the same crime by the law of God, which has not made men so that they should use one another in this way" (Confessions 3:8:15 [A.D. 400]).

Actually, this is another good reason not to argue with liberals because actual facts mean nothing to them. If reality doesn't support their belief then they make things up.

Thanks for that, but I am not going to argue semantics in your part of the forum as it would be disrespectful.

Nuns and clergy did take part in this type of activity and love for one another was the main reason not lust.
Look up some of the letters and poetry of that time regarding this.

You have your veiws I have mine and never the twain shall meet, so it would be fruitless to argue or debate (and this is not the intention of my post.)

I'd like to discuss this further and hopefully some one could(perhaps yourself) could open another thread in debates section of this forum, I would be interested in what you ahve to say. I am a little busy with christmas and family at present but could contribute after the new year, so it doesn't look as though I am evading the issue.

Merry christmas to you and everyone here at conservative christianity and have a peacefull and happy time.

God Bless.

 

[Secundulus]

Thanks for that, but I am not going to argue semantics in your part of the forum as it would be disrespectful.

Nuns and clergy did take part in this type of activity and love for one another was the main reason not lust.
Look up some of the letters and poetry of that time regarding this.

Of course there were homosexual Nuns and Clergy just like there were homosexual other kinds of people. I don't dispute that. What I dispute is your premise that the Church or anybody else never opposed homosexual activity before 1100. That is simply not true.

Homosexuality, especially between adult men has never in the history of the world been socially acceptable anywhere, in any religion, until within the last 10 years.

What I object to is the fantasy histories you all make up and pass off as fact to unsuspecting people.

 

[Nadiine]

Thanks for that, but I am not going to argue semantics in your part of the forum as it would be disrespectful.

Nuns and clergy did take part in this type of activity and love for one another was the main reason not lust.
Look up some of the letters and poetry of that time regarding this.

You have your veiws I have mine and never the twain shall meet, so it would be fruitless to argue or debate (and this is not the intention of my post.)

I'm not sure how that supports homosexuality any???
Priests molest little boys too, do we sanction pedophilia next becuz
they consider it "love"?

We don't point to people's (including people who claim Christianity)
immorality to prove God's ok with it.

 

[HerbieHeadley]

What a relief to read this thread. I am celebrating my first year here in the CF and have felt at whit&#8217;s end sometimes debating all the new wave biblical theology and especially the Liberal.

I can&#8217;t help but feel it is a war against Christianity as I know it to be.
So much feeling that I&#8217;m not alone in fellowship I get here reading in this particular thread and forum, but it took me a year to find this place cuz I&#8217;m simple like that.
I was under the impression that this place had gone to hell, so to speak.

When I look back at the homosexuality threads, most try to say homosexuality was not condemned by God&#8217;s word, I see most of the posts trying to justify themselves in their sin. A great majority of the time you the Christian are the sinner, for hating me, and God says not to judge Blah Blah, and Sodom and Gomorrah was really about rape, and not homosexuality, (like that is any better), and I am in a loving relationship where we care for one another and yes, Paul doesn&#8217;t count.

They really want to have the Christian love the sin IMO. They don&#8217;t want to have to bring themselves to deal with the condemnation that they know in their heart is there in the Word, so they want to change the meaning in the Word, and have you except the sin because we are all sinful, so as to make themselves feel good and God will forgive them.

Maybe they are right, God is the only judge, none are righteous.
However, to change the Word to fit the way they want and not the want to face the sin doesn&#8217;t help anyone&#8230;.and yes I have my own brick house in my eye, but at least I realize the faults and try everyday to overcome.

The purpose, (I believe) is to break you down to their sense righteousness and tolerance. Which is kinda funny, (but really sad since they themselves are really the least tolerant of all), and when the Christian atempts anything in truth, you are ridiculed and belittled for your faith with mocking of &#8220;you must believe everything in the Bible to be true approach&#8220;, and then down the gutter lane of defending your belief to a mocker.
Well I do believe every word and know if there seems to be a contradiction; it is generally a misunderstanding due to faulty interpretation or translation.

All I can say is God bless you all!

PS-Relived to read that about the others having problems on CF, I also have been having problems myself with the login and posting before getting booted. Also, McAfee and other security programs keep telling me there are Trojans that were blocked and deleted about half the time I log in here.
What is up with that?

PPS- I have a problem with the idea that the dietary laws WERE done away with, could someone point me to biblical support as to why it is OK to eat the swine and shellfish? I&#8217;m thinking this is a problem for Christians that the heathen might have a point.

Go easy on me&#8230;.look at this face^^^^^^^^

 

[Secundulus]

I'm not sure how that supports homosexuality any???
Priests molest little boys too, do we sanction pedophilia next becuz
they consider it "love"?

We don't point to people's (including people who claim Christianity)
immorality to prove God's ok with it.

I expect that this "history" is coming from John Boswell's book, Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe.

Here is a review of this book by Marian Therese Horvat, Ph.D. She She holds a degree in Journalism and a Master's and Doctorate in Medieval History from the University of Kansas. She has the academic credentials to write a critical review of this book.

Her review begins with the words, "One of the most disturbing trends in academia today is the wholesale practice of historical revisionism, or what has been described as “advocacy scholarship,” that is, scholarship in the service of a social and political agenda." I'm sure you can imagine where the rest of the review leads. Read her book review here.

Without some corroborating evidence, of which there is none, I think it is academically inadvisable to take Boswell's conclusions seriously.

 

[sealacamp]

Well, I have been in the liberal section for a bit... especially debating homosexuality in this thread:
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7098875
It finally broke down into me getting insulted and my faith being questioned by the liberals!
(Note their forum's motto!!!!)

I just thought you all might enjoy watching how the argument progressed and collapsed and why I believe liberalism is not an intellectual ideology but is rather an emotional ideology based around emotional attachments to positions and ideas that are rooted not in reason but emotion and preference.

You can see that in the posts today on December 22nd-23rd where my academic arguments are treated as equal to personal attacks on par with me being referred to as an SOB and having the genuineness of my faith questioned.

Please tell me what you think!

Edit note: Misspelled the title... oops.

I think you are dead on. It has well been known to me and many others that liberals operate out of feelings and not facts. Wisdom has no meaning to such as these since if it feels good then it must be good is the guiding force. That being the case it does not matter if it is right, wrong, whether or not something works or doesn't work, how much it costs is irrelevant and the list goes on and on. What matters is does it feel good, does it align with their personal ideal of what is fair. A great example of this is equality between men and women. For a liberal that means equal in every way when the reality is that men and women are different. And if you state the fact that men and women are different and then list a few differences suddenly you will be what ever it is they decide to call you that is demeaning and derogatory in an effort to undermine any evidence you may supply.

Ultimately the people they are fooling are themselves and other liberals that follow them around eating what ever the lie of the day is and calling it good. I pray for these people constantly and would advise everyone else to do the same. Only the Lord can reach these people and lead them into His truth in order for them to be set free. That is another issue but they believe themselves to be free when in fact they are bound. Pray for them for they don't know what they are doing.

Sealacamp

 

[Secundulus]

The purpose, (I believe) is to break you down to their sense righteousness and tolerance.

You might like this from Bishop Fulton Sheen.

Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it.

It does penance for the sins of others, but it is not broadminded about sin.

The cry for tolerance never induces it to quench its hatred of the evil philosophies that have entered into contest with the Truth. ​

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0014.html

PPS- I have a problem with the idea that the dietary laws WERE done away with, could someone point me to biblical support as to way it is OK to eat the swine and shellfish? I&#8217;m thinking this is a problem for Christians that the heathen might have a point.

This one is easy. I have provided the scripture below. Please read the whole thing, as long as it is. This was known as the Council of Jerusalem where the Apostles came together to define what Mosaic Laws the church would be subject to.

When reading this it is useful to remember Jesus' instructions to the Apostles.

""Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven." (Matthew 18:18, NASB95)

This verse is in fact the basis for the Apostolic Church. Jesus gave his Apostles the authority to speak in his name and make the rules.

The Council at Jerusalem
" Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." And when Paul and Barnabas had great dissension and debate with them, the brethren determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue. Therefore, being sent on their way by the church, they were passing through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and were bringing great joy to all the brethren. When they arrived at Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them. But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses." The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter. After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." All the people kept silent, and they were listening to Barnabas and Paul as they were relating what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, "Brethren, listen to me. "Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. "With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, &#8216;After these things I will return, And I will rebuild the tabernacle of David which has fallen, And I will rebuild its ruins, And I will restore it, So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,&#8217; Says the Lord, who makes these things known from long ago. "Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. "For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath." Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them to send to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas&#8212;Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren, and they sent this letter by them, "The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings. "Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls, it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. "Therefore we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word of mouth. "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."" (Acts 15:1-29, NASB95)

 

[Kodos]

I have frequently debated with liberals regarding politics, before I came to Christ. They treat the Constitution of the United States with the same contempt they hold for the Bible.

They really are like spoiled little children. They want to do it, they want to do it their way, and the rules must be changed to fit their particular little temper tantrums and feelings.

It's unfortunate that Christians have been seduced by this narcissistic personality disorder that plagues our society.

 

[Atlantians]

Atlantians is flamed in at least 3 posts. He responded with immense grace, but the thread should be closed before it devolves any more than it has.

Am so tired of CF's dynamic when it comes to liberal vs. conservatives.

I like being flamed actually, makes my job easier.

Seriously though, I would like to request that it remain open as I take no offense from those posts, forgive the posters, and would like anyone else to be able to see how the debate transpired.

All ARE welcome, just not to preach to us or insult our believes! Please read our FSRs!!!!

What exactly would those beliefs be?

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I have frequently debated with liberals regarding politics, before I came to Christ. They treat the Constitution of the United States with the same contempt they hold for the Bible.

They really are like spoiled little children. They want to do it, they want to do it their way, and the rules must be changed to fit their particular little temper tantrums and feelings.

It's unfortunate that Christians have been seduced by this narcissistic personality disorder that plagues our society.

I thought we were talking theological liberalism. Political liberalism isn't quite the same thing, though there is a lot of overlap. Still, it's quite possible to be a theological conservative and a liberal, a socialist or a libertarian (as in my case) politically. Conversely, it's also possible to be theologically liberal or even pagan or atheist and be politically conservative.

 

[Atlantians]

Thank you all for all the input!
It is all greatly appreciated.

They will tell you that the scripture is irrelevant. It is simply the writings of men 2000 years ago and has little relevance to the modern world. They will tell you that Jesus didn't say anything about homosexuality in the Gospels and that Paul is a lunatic to be ignored.

One of them would have then made the profound comment that God hates shrimp.

It's all very predictable.

Actually one of them DID make the profound statement that God hates shrimp.

Oh and you forgot one:
They will tell you something about the Greek words meaning something different... but never actually demonstrate how, why, or in what scholarly field such a claim is supported.

 

[Nadiine]

I expect that this "history" is coming from John Boswell's book, Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe.

Here is a review of this book by Marian Therese Horvat, Ph.D. She She holds a degree in Journalism and a Master's and Doctorate in Medieval History from the University of Kansas. She has the academic credentials to write a critical review of this book.

Her review begins with the words, "One of the most disturbing trends in academia today is the wholesale practice of historical revisionism, or what has been described as &#8220;advocacy scholarship,&#8221; that is, scholarship in the service of a social and political agenda." I'm sure you can imagine where the rest of the review leads. Read her book review here.

Without some corroborating evidence, of which there is none, I think it is academically inadvisable to take Boswell's conclusions seriously.

Kinda sounds like this prophecy doesn't it?

2 Tim 4
2preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

 

[Nadiine]

Ultimately the people they are fooling are themselves and other liberals that follow them around eating what ever the lie of the day is and calling it good. I pray for these people constantly and would advise everyone else to do the same. Only the Lord can reach these people and lead them into His truth in order for them to be set free. That is another issue but they believe themselves to be free when in fact they are bound. Pray for them for they don't know what they are doing.

Sealacamp

2 Peter 2:19
18 For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error,
promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption;
for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.

 

[Nadiine]

I thought we were talking theological liberalism. Political liberalism isn't quite the same thing, though there is a lot of overlap. Still, it's quite possible to be a theological conservative and a liberal, a socialist or a libertarian (as in my case) politically. Conversely, it's also possible to be theologically liberal or even pagan or atheist and be politically conservative.

We can make statements like this about what combinations we can
all be, but when it comes salvation, we don't know the extent of
God's judgment when it comes to being socially liberal while claiming
Theological conservatism.

It's real easy to say you can be both (just like I see some around CF claim that you can be a Christian Buddhist by selectively taking philosophical principles from another religion) - but we don't know how God
will judge that or how sound the salvation actually is of one who can
embrace social liberalism or pieces of false religions
which DOES violate scripture teachings in several ways.

So suffice it to say, we can THINK we can be both or all of the above as a self proclaiming Christian, but we cannot say we know if everyone making the claims ARE actually
born again - or how God will ultimately judge the person who carries what seems to appear as a dichotomy of spiritual/moral/social values.

 

[Nadiine]

Originally Posted by Rochir

All ARE welcome, just not to preach to us or insult our believes! Please read our FSRs!!!!
​

The problem with that as I see it is that it's within a designated
"Christian" area. If a Buddhist has their religious icon blocked,
it looks as if they're posting AS a Christian in that area.

With all the rampant false teachings I see going on around here,
it only spells out confusion & it's why there's constant infighting
which outwardly to guests appears like a bunch of "Christians"
fighting & not being able to come to ANY agreement on
anything.

That helps noone.

 

[BobRyan]

Oh and you forgot one:
They will tell you something about the Greek words meaning something different... but never actually demonstrate how, why, or in what scholarly field such a claim is supported.

When History or the Discovery channel does some supposed "objective" study into any Bible topic they frequently add the euphamism "some scholars believe" or "some scholars think" as their way of saying "most real Christian scholars would not go for this -- but we were able to find some liberal agnostic or atheist ones that would say almost anything".

Which reminds me - it is amazing how often do you see Bart Ehrman getting quoted as one of those "some scholars believe" references. Now there we have a "quality" agnostic - that is probably a bit more atheist than agnostic.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Apollo Celestio]

The thing that annoys me in these debates, and also when I frequented DoH is that those who oppose them must have some kind of hatred or desire for some type of Klu Klux Klan acid trip. They're falling for the exact things they condemn others for.