My Goosenecks challenge.

[_-iconoclast-_]

Which is exactly the problem. If the human population had been reduced to eight people 4,000 years ago, the genetic bottleneck would be glaringly obvious.

Hello

As stated before im not interested in a discussion with you. Maybe another time friend

 

[Subduction Zone]

This diversity in human genes suggests there may be no bottle neck.

Toba catastrophe theory is the only major bottleneck i have encountered so far.

However, subsequent research, especially in the 2010s, appeared to refute both the climate argument and the genetic argument. Recent research shows the extent of climate change was much smaller than believed by proponents of the theory.[11] In addition,coalescence times for Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial DNA have been revised to well above 100,000 years since 2011.

Finally, such coalescence would not, in itself, indicate a population bottleneck, because mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosome DNA are only a small part of the entire genome, and are atypical in that they are inherited exclusively through the mother or through the father, respectively.


What u think?

The cause of the human population bottleneck is still being debated. Its existence is not, as far as I can see. The human bottleneck is far less intense than that of the cheetah. And that tells us that there was no Noah's Ark flood where people got reduced to only eight individuals. If that happened to us you could get an organ transplant from almost anyone.

And please don't conflate Mitochondrial Eve with a bottleneck. Even during her time there were thousands of human beings. Why bring that up?


Do you understand how the lack of a cheetah magnitude population bottleneck refutes the flood story?

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

Do you understand how the lack of a cheetah magnitude population bottleneck refutes the flood story?

Tell me. How does the bottleneck population refute the flood story?

The cause of the human population bottleneck is still being debated. Its existence is not, as far as I can see. The human bottleneck is far less intense than that of the cheetah. And that tells us that there was no Noah's Ark flood where people got reduced to only eight individuals. If that happened to us you could get an organ transplant from almost anyone.

I dont believe noahs ark was a world flood as i stated previously.

I believe noahs ark was localised.

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

The cause of the human population bottleneck is still being debated. Its existence is not, as far as I can see. The human bottleneck is far less intense than that of the cheetah. And that tells us that there was no Noah's Ark flood where people got reduced to only eight individuals. If that happened to us you could get an organ transplant from almost anyone.

And please don't conflate Mitochondrial Eve with a bottleneck. Even during her time there were thousands of human beings. Why bring that up?


Do you understand how the lack of a cheetah magnitude population bottleneck refutes the flood story?

I view the flood as local but am always willing to see an arguement that may convince me.

There is good argument for 6th day creation - go forth and multiply and nth day creation of Adam and eve - stay in the garden.

It could be possible that there were 2 seperate creations. 6th day and Adams descendants - after Gods rest

If this is so then 'the sons of God' (who had the breath of life) could possibly have stayed in one area.


7:4 For yet 5750 seven 7651 days 3117, and I will cause it to rain 4305 8688 upon the earth 776 forty 705 days 3117 and forty705 nights 3915; and every 3605 living substance 3351 that I have made 6213 8804will I destroy 4229 8804 from off 5921 the face 6440 of the earth 127.(destroy: Heb. blot out)


127 of the earth

Strong: H127

Orig: from 119; soil (from its general redness):--country, earth, ground, husband(-man) (-ry), land

Note
The event of rhe tower of babel suggests the descendants of Adam and Noah had not scattered yet and maybe all in one place.

noahs ark was before tower of babel. Tower of babel is linked with the scatter of the indo-euro proto language.

Please tell me what u think?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Tell me. How does the bottleneck population refute the flood story?

The lack of a bottleneck refutes the Noah's Ark story.

I dont believe noahs ark was a world flood as i stated previously.

Yes, but you have not been clear in what you believe.

I believe noahs ark was localised.

That tells us nothing. Do you think that humanity was threatened? Were animal species threatened? Which ones and why?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Let's try to be honest and bring up one claim at a time.

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

Yes, but you have not been clear in what you believe

Refer to page 6 of this thread friend.

The lack of a bottleneck refutes the Noah's Ark story

Pls refer you to post 118 page, p age 6

I believe 'those who had the breath of life' and some 6th day ppl perished - opinion . Noah, his descendants and 6th day creation were left


6th day went forth..


Breath of life - adam

That tells us nothing. Do you think that humanity was threatened? Were animal species threatened? Which ones and why?

Noahs ark saved the last of the descendants of adam. My opinion - the 2 by 2 animals were used to replenish area where noah landed..

Remember noah only got as far as turkey. Noah may have lived in the fertile crescent. The sons of God may not have gotten far. The flood - imo - was to destroy sons of God who became corrupted.

God told 6th day creation to go forth and multiply.

Check this link
Biblical-Type Floods Are Real, and They're Absolutely Enormous | DiscoverMagazine.com




Why is it important for you that God does not exist?


Cheers

 

[Subduction Zone]

Refer to page 6 of this thread friend.





Pls refer you to post 118 page, p age 6







Noahs ark saved the last of the descendants of adam. My opinion - the 2 by 2 animals were used to replenish area where noah landed..

Remember noah only got as far as turkey. Noah may have lived in the fertile crescent. The sons of God may not have gotten far. The flood - imo - was to destroy sons of God who became corrupted.

God told 6th day creation to go forth and multiply.

Check this link
Biblical-Type Floods Are Real, and They're Absolutely Enormous | DiscoverMagazine.com




Why is it important for you that God does not exist?


Cheers

So you feel free to reinterpret the Bible to almost any extent, as long as you can claim that it is "accurate".

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

So you feel free to reinterpret the Bible to almost any extent, as long as you can claim that it is "accurate".

I just gave you an instance based on the chronological order of genesis in relation to noahs ark.

Lets see your cards friend.

What do you believe in?
Ie what is your belief system and where do you get your morals from

 

[Subduction Zone]

I just gave you an instance based on the chronological order of genesis in relation to noahs ark.

Lets see your cards friend.

What do you believe in?

Sorry, but you are ready to reinterpret your myth at the drop of a hat.

I don't believe that there was a flood of Noah. There was a severe flood that inspired the myth, and it has been found, but it was local to only the Tigris/Euphrates drainage system. It did not threaten man at all, and there was no magic boat.

Your version of the flood already makes it rather pointless. People would have survived regardless, animals were not threatened at all. There was no point to the Ark in your version.

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

Sorry, but you are ready to reinterpret your myth at the drop of a hat.

I do not reinterpret anything. I looked at genesis and read it literally.

You do seem to attack me a lot. How are you not guilty of ab hominem?

(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

You seem to attack my integrity a lot.

I don't believe that there was a flood of Noah. There was a severe flood that inspired the myth, and it has been found, but it was local to only the Tigris/Euphrates drainage system. It did not threaten man at all, and there was no magical boay

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://abcnews.go.com/amp/Technology/evidence-suggests-biblical-great-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533&ved=0ahUKEwjm8YPTt8_VAhUCipQKHee1C_kQFggmMAM&usg=AFQjCNHLbUFbCyUkvPPKERIMsG2PI_ZF-g&ampcf=1

Why is noahs boat magic?

Your version of the flood already makes it rather pointless. People would have survived regardless, animals were not threatened at all. There was no point to the Ark in your version.

As mentioned before noahs flood was a flood to wipe out the sons of Gods. Descendants of Adam.

Why would God punish a goup of ppl He told you go forth and multiply? God was interested in Adams descendants.


Where do you get your morals from?
How do you know what is right and wrong?

 

[lesliedellow]

Hey hey sub.

Have you considered that noahs flood may not have been a world wide flood?

Cheers

I thought AV was the licensed ressurectionist around here; bringing threads back from the dead.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I do not reinterpret anything. I looked at genesis and read it literally.

No, you don't. If you read it literally you would believe in a global flood since it clearly states that the entire Earth was covered. You would believe that all land life except that aboard the ark died as well since the Bible clearly states that as well. You are merely reinterpreting.

You do seem to attack me a lot. How are you not guilty of ab hominem?

You should not use phrases that you do not understand. Correcting your errors is not an "attack".

(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

You seem to attack my integrity a lot.

So you can see, no ad hominem. Nope, you weaken your integrity. That is why I warn you to try to stay honest.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://abcnews.go.com/amp/Technology/evidence-suggests-biblical-great-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533&ved=0ahUKEwjm8YPTt8_VAhUCipQKHee1C_kQFggmMAM&usg=AFQjCNHLbUFbCyUkvPPKERIMsG2PI_ZF-g&ampcf=1

I am sure that I linked that story, not from that source, for you already. That was the very local flood that I talked about. It merely inspired the myth. Or did you only read the title?

Why is noahs boat magic?

If you have not read the myth then there is no point in discussing it. Countless animals on a boat, for a year, with only one small window for fresh air and removing tons of waste materials. In fact there would be tons of waste a day. But I have no doubts that you will reinterpret the myth again.

As mentioned before noahs flood was a flood to wipe out the sons of Gods. Descendants of Adam.

That is reinterpretation. The Bible in now way implies that the 'Descendants of Adam' were the only people on the Earth.

Why would God punish a goup of ppl He told you go forth and multiply? God was interested in Adams descendants.

And now you contradict yourself.

Where do you get your morals from?
How do you know what is right and wrong?

The same place that you get yours from. Yours do not come from the Bible. Morals are both in born and societal. Our morals are constantly improving as man becomes more and more civilized. You do realize that there are no objective morals in the Bible, don't you?

 

[AV1611VET]

The lack of a bottleneck refutes the Noah's Ark story.

No, it doesn't.

As you know, global floodists believe a bottleneck event occurred.

That event was the Flood.

Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Genesis 7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

As you know, a bottleneck event requires a bottleneck recovery.

God recovered the earth.

Genesis 8:8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
Genesis 8:9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
Genesis 8:10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
Genesis 8:11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
Genesis 8:12 And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.

As you know, a bottleneck recovery depends on the vitality of the survivors.

God blessed the survivors with vitality.

Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

Any questions?

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, it doesn't.

Actually it does. But let's see what you have for an excuse.

As you know, global floodists believe a bottleneck event occurred.

That event was the Flood.

Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Genesis 7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

As you know, a bottleneck event requires a bottleneck recovery.

God recovered the earth.

Genesis 8:8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
Genesis 8:9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
Genesis 8:10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
Genesis 8:11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
Genesis 8:12 And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.

As you know, a bottleneck recovery depends on the vitality of the survivors.

God blessed the survivors with vitality.

Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

Any questions?

When did the magic stop? Handwaving is not an explanation. Until you explain the lack of a bottleneck the flood story is refuted.

 

[AV1611VET]

Handwaving is not an explanation.

In addition, that blessing in Genesis 9:1 effectively destroyed any chances of inbreeding depression occurring.

Until you explain the lack of a bottleneck the flood story is refuted.

I'm not going to explain the lack of a bottleneck.

I just told you one occurred, didn't I?

Here is the second sentence of Post 154:

As you know, global floodists believe a bottleneck event occurred.

Put that down as a correction.

 

[Subduction Zone]

In addition, that blessing in Genesis 9:1 effectively destroyed any chances of inbreeding depression occurring.

Nope, that is merely more handwaving.

I'm not going to explain the lack of a bottleneck.

Then your flood is refuted.

I just told you one occurred, didn't I?

Here is the second sentence of Post 154:

Put that down as a correction.

How can it be a "correction". You did not admit your error.

By not explaining the lack of a bottleneck, you admit that the flood never occurred.

 

[AV1611VET]

Then your flood is refuted.

And don't forget:

Eight people got off the Ark.

That is one doosey of a bottleneck event.

But that's nothing compared to Genesis 2, where the world's population was down (up, actually) to only two people.

And if that's not believable, I can make it more impossible:

In Genesis 1, at one time, the human population was "down" to one person!

And if that isn't a mockery of science, I can even best that:

That one person was a male!

Those who want to argue, using the Flood as some kind of bottleneck event are being too easy on us!

 

[bhsmte]

I just gave you an instance based on the chronological order of genesis in relation to noahs ark.

Lets see your cards friend.

What do you believe in?
Ie what is your belief system and where do you get your morals from

Are you claiming one needs to be a theist, to have good morals?

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you claiming one needs to be a theist, to have good morals?

Knowing the difference between vertical and horizontal helps.

Ethics = man ↔ man

Morals = man ↕ God