My Goliath Challenge

[AV1611VET]

[/list]
Explain how they "scientifically assessed the situation" please. Some sort of quantitative analysis? Or are you going to argue that every time someone uses past experience to try to judge a future outcome it equates to a scientific assessment?

Ever heard of empirical analysis?

They used some of the best science available to them at the time: visual acuity.

 

[Cromulent]

Ever heard of empirical analysis?

They used some of the best science available to them at the time: visual acuity.

And then, like all good scientists, they revised their ideas when new evidence revealed itself. They weren't going to let David fight when they thought he was just a poor shepherd. Then when he revealed that he had killed lions and bears in the past, they updated their theories to fit with the new evidence.

What you would probably have done is to have told David and his evidence to take a hike.

 

[JustMeSee]

ZOWIE!

And I was just starting to lose hope and give up on you guys!

I haven't failed to notice though, that no one has tackled #1 yet.

I am but one or, under some situations, we are two. People have varying ideas and objectives.

It is best to treat individual people as individual people.

 

[razeontherock]

I am but one or, under some situations, we are two.

 

[Assyrian]

You've never used a sling, I see. David only had time to fire one.

Yes, presumably if David had missed he would just have stood still and let Goliath kill him. Wouldn't do to cheat and dodge spears like he did with Saul, to get far enough away each time to sling another one.

 

[razeontherock]

There's just not much chance to use a sling like you are picturing

 

[JustMeSee]

Actually, according to the story, David THOUGHT God did it.

WOULD do it, to be completely honest.

Yes, it was a conclusion for which I took a leap. Since it is from a religious book, I guessed God is always considered to have some involvement. That and interpretations I have heard from elsewhere.

If I had a Euro for every interpretation of every scriptural passage, I would be quite wealthy.

 

[pgp_protector]

There's just not much chance to use a sling like you are picturing

Why? How much time does it take for a competent person to fire a sling?

 

[razeontherock]

If I had a Euro for every interpretation of every scriptural passage, I would be quite wealthy.

And if you compared that to everything the Author intends, and owed a euro for everything missing, you'd never be out of debt

 

[AV1611VET]

And then, like all good scientists, they revised their ideas when new evidence revealed itself. They weren't going to let David fight when they thought he was just a poor shepherd. Then when he revealed that he had killed lions and bears in the past, they updated their theories to fit with the new evidence.

What evidence?

Yes, David killed the lion and the bear; but who did David say kept the lion and the bear from killing him, while he was killing them?

1 Samuel 17:37 David said moreover, The LORD that delivered me out of the paw of the lion, and out of the paw of the bear, he will deliver me out of the hand of this Philistine. And Saul said unto David, Go, and the LORD be with thee.

Are you saying the Israelites accepted this as evidence?

If so, I wish you guys would do the same thing.

What you would probably have done is to have told David and his evidence to take a hike.

What evidence? a dead lion and a dead bear, or a live shepherd boy? or both?

(Please answer this.)

 

[Assyrian]

There's just not much chance to use a sling like you are picturing

David couldn't dodge a man running in armour or get far enough away to use the sling again? He couldn't get another stone out of his bag the move? Come on, if you are going to keep saying 'no he couldn't', at least come up with some evidence.

Here is a picture of the valley of Elah,

The valley itself looks flat, but the two armies were on the hilltops on opposite sides of the valley. Even in the valley he could outrun the Philistine, but the hillside looks idea for an unarmoured hill shepherd trying to keep far enough ahead of a heavily armoured Philistine to use his sling.

 

[AV1611VET]

David couldn't dodge a man running in armour or get far enough away to use the sling again?

I believe David could have stopped in mid-run, closed his eyes, twirled around ten times to get a good dose of vertigo, started dancing the twist on one leg, and slung that stone straight at the Israelites [by mistake], and it would have curved back and knocked Goliath ten feet backwards on his can.

 

[Assyrian]

I think you may be mistaking him for Luke Skywalker

 

[JustMeSee]

And if you compared that to everything the Author intends, and owed a euro for everything missing, you'd never be out of debt

When or if the Author chimes in, it will be clear of His True Meaning of Scripture. Until that time, I am limited to what the authors wrote, the limitations of translation, my personal interpretations, and the many (hundreds?) interpreters (who all claim to be the only one with The Right interpretation).

 

[Cromulent]

What evidence?

Yes, David killed the lion and the bear; but who did David say kept the lion and the bear from killing him, while he was killing them?

1 Samuel 17:37 David said moreover, The LORD that delivered me out of the paw of the lion, and out of the paw of the bear, he will deliver me out of the hand of this Philistine. And Saul said unto David, Go, and the LORD be with thee.

Are you saying the Israelites accepted this as evidence?

Or perhaps David just looked trustworthy. He could have presented his arguments in a convincing way. It's hardly an incredible story, as has been pointed out several times, a sling in the right hands is a lethal weapon.

If so, I wish you guys would do the same thing.

What evidence? a dead lion and a dead bear, or a live shepherd boy? or both?

(Please answer this.)

Or an empirical knowledge that there were lions and bears in that part of the world, and a realisation that a shepherd could quite easily have come across them in the course of his work.

 

[razeontherock]

Why? How much time does it take for a competent person to fire a sling?

Longer than it would take a 9'6" person to close the distance. You center the stone in the pouch, set the sling in motion, complete a minimum of 3 rotations w/ maximum arc, then you're ready to release. The release is the critical part, anything interfering with that and you'd be better off just throwing a rock.

And do realize that the Israeli army had hundreds of experts with this weapon, who would've put David to shame on the battle field.

 

[razeontherock]

Here is a picture of the valley of Elah,

Thanks! I always wondered what kind of scale we were talking about here. I highly doubt David could outrun Goliath ...

 

[Belk]

Ever heard of empirical analysis?

They used some of the best science available to them at the time: visual acuity.

So, let me make sure I have this correct, you think that everytime someone estimates something by eye they are performing a scientific evaluation. Is that right?

 

[razeontherock]

When or if the Author chimes in, it will be clear of His True Meaning of Scripture.

You're missing the point, which is the fallacy of assuming one meaning. It's not even a logical conclusion ...

 

[Freodin]

Faith IS "different sight." Proving yet again, you have managed to completely miss the point of the story.

AV's "point" is another of his rants against "science". Everyone who does something that he disagrees with is a "scientist", every deed that he despises uses "science".

The "science" that all those cowardly "scientists" used here is a simple observation/evaluation scheme: "Hm, if we go against this brute in close combat, we don't stand a chance." Even big bad King Saul wasn't described as a giant like this one.

David used a different approach, based on the same observations, using a slightly different evaluation: "If I can't kill him up close, I'll kill him from afar."

He cheated, but within the rules of the game. I see. Got anymore jibberish to spout?

What, you don't understand such an easy concept? Challenges amongst single fighters were quite common, and followed some rules of honour. Presenting a brute as Goliath is described to have been is a little... unsporting. Yet it is within the rules: the Israelites were free to chose a champion of their own.

Consider it as a duel. You have challenged your opponent to a duel with swords. Now if you know that you are an excellent swordsman and he cannot match you, this might be considered unfair. But if he comes to the field with a pistol and shoots you... he is cheating.

Chief, David IS a hero, by any Judeo-Christian standards. (Muslim, too)

Goes to show that they have quite low standards then.