My Goliath Challenge

[Freodin]

Slingshot wasn't very efficient against armoured targets, but it was very much more so against unarmoured opponents. Or, as in this case, if it could be made to hit the enemy in a vulnerable spot.

It was a valued weapon of war, especially in the hand of competent users.

 

[AV1611VET]

David and Goliath is an interesting story, and one can find different moral conclusions within it. (I liked the moral: those who cheat best win.)

But to use it in some way as an argument against science: the irony is priceless... yet exactly what I have become to expect from AV.

-- Thank you.

 

[JustMeSee]

Read 1 Samuel 17, then:

1. Explain how those who scientifically assessed the situation were rendered useless.
2. Explain how David's science-can-take-a-hike approach was justified.

According to the story, GOD DID IT.

37 The LORD who rescued me from the paw of the lion and the paw of the bear will rescue me from the hand of this Philistine.”

 

[Split Rock]

Read 1 Samuel 17, then:

1. Explain how those who scientifically assessed the situation were rendered useless.
2. Explain how David's science-can-take-a-hike approach was justified.

I think it has something to do with tuna fish...

 

[AV1611VET]

According to the story, GOD DID IT.

ZOWIE!

And I was just starting to lose hope and give up on you guys!

I haven't failed to notice though, that no one has tackled #1 yet.

 

[Tiberius]

Actually, according to the story, David THOUGHT God did it.

WOULD do it, to be completely honest.

 

[Cromulent]

Read 1 Samuel 17, then:

1. Explain how those who scientifically assessed the situation were rendered useless.
2. Explain how David's science-can-take-a-hike approach was justified.

Read 1 Samuel 17, then:

1. Explain how anybody "scientifically assessed the situation".

2. Explain how David's attitude said "science can take a hike", paying particular attention to 1 Samuel 17:34-36 where David provides evidence that he is a capable fighter.

 

[Jazer]

Well, yeah, I suppose I could if I wanted to, but I don't really fancy the idea of hurting or killing someone.

Actually, I would tend to agree. I have no interest in getting involved in that sort of thing.

 

[razeontherock]

Read 1 Samuel 17, then:

1. Explain how anybody "scientifically assessed the situation".

2. Explain how David's attitude said "science can take a hike", paying particular attention to 1 Samuel 17:34-36 where David provides evidence that he is a capable fighter.

1. All natural reasoning concluded the situation was hopeless

2. All natural reasoning concluded David had no chance

 

[Cromulent]

1. All natural reasoning concluded the situation was hopeless

2. All natural reasoning concluded David had no chance

All I can find is this quote from Saul: "And Saul said to David, Thou art not able to go against this Philistine to fight with him: for thou art but a youth, and he a man of war from his youth."

To which David essentially replies "I've killed a lion and a bear. There's every chance I can kill a man".

It was this natural reasoning that got David into the situation to have a pop at Goliath in the first place.

 

[Assyrian]

1. All natural reasoning concluded the situation was hopeless

2. All natural reasoning concluded David had no chance

Hopeless? He was armed with a lethal weapon. Terrifying more like, Goliath was big heavily armed and heavily armoured and the consequences were not just for the Israelite who risked his own life facing the Philistine, he was representing all of Israel in the battle.

David certainly did have a chance, just not a great one on the face of it.

 

[AV1611VET]

Hopeless? He was armed with a lethal weapon. Terrifying more like, Goliath was big heavily armed and heavily armoured and the consequences were not just for the Israelite who risked his own life facing the Philistine, he was representing all of Israel in the battle.

David certainly did have a chance, just not a great one on the face of it.

Are you insinuating that the Israelite army could not have used their lethal weapons as well?

 

[Jazer]

It was a valued weapon of war, especially in the hand of competent users.

If I had to take on a lion or a bear I would want more then a sling shot. Esp if you are guarding a herd of animals. It is not a good idea to get inbetween a bear and any food they may want. The point that maybe this could be a good time to have faith in God seems to be lost right now.

What about Daniel and the Lions den. Did God shut the mouths of the lions to keep them from eating Daniel or not?

 

[razeontherock]

1. David didn't use a sling shot < staff edit >
2. David DID take both the lion and the bear "by the beard," (1 Samuel 17:35)

Which seems to suggest he did NOT use a sling, but the common element is Faith in God as Jazer said

 

[Jazer]

Which seems to suggest he did NOT use a sling, but the common element is Faith in God as Jazer said

My son was camping out in alaska last summer and had to deal with bears twice. One bear was small, maybe only two or three hundred pounds. But my son did not want to wait around to see if the mamma was there. He just abandoned the camp site. I do not know how big David's bear was. But if it were me I would not have wanted to mess with a bear. I would rather leave it alone. Esp if the bear was big enough to carry off an animal.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

Read 1 Samuel 17, then:

1. Explain how those who scientifically assessed the situation were rendered useless.
2. Explain how David's science-can-take-a-hike approach was justified.

I dunno. Beats me.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

If I had to take on a lion or a bear I would want more then a sling shot. Esp if you are guarding a herd of animals.

To be fair, I can understand the widely held belief that David faced Goliath with a slingshot since that's the common Sunday school portrayal, but a sling is actually a terrifying weapon that was frequently used for game hunting and was a common tool in an iron age arsenal. The stone could leave the sling at 60 miles per hour, travel 400 meters and, in the hands of a skilled user, was lethally accurate. Even if the rock thrown didn't kill you directly, the internal injury that it caused could still be enough to cause your death. According to the Wiki, some sling stones weighed around a pound.

Here's some information about slings as a weapon from Christian Answers:

Sling (WebBibleâ&#8222;¢ Encyclopedia) - ChristianAnswers.Net

Essentially, although the odds were still against David due to the size of his opponent and the fact that he was using a long-range weapon as well (and David wasn't armored), it wasn't the same sort of mismatch that you think of in Sunday school class. David killing a bear or lion with a sling wouldn't have been that unusual; they were lethal weapons of war.

 

[razeontherock]

We recently had a good discussion about this, and archaeologists have found stashes of stones used for slings that were about the size of billiard balls, up to tennis ball size. That could weight quite a bit over a pound, and the force they would carry would indeed be serious! (I've owned a sling)

You have failed to address AV's post - why didn't anyone in the whole Israeli army face Goliath? Surely they had slings, and were much more experienced with them than young David ...

 

[AV1611VET]

You have failed to address AV's post - why didn't anyone in the whole Israeli army face Goliath?

I have a feeling they won't address the point, either.

Judges 20:16 Among all this people there were seven hundred chosen men lefthanded; every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss.

The fact is, they were rendered useless as warriors when they saw the size and might of this guy; and David showed up and used his faith in the LORD to override reality and get the job done.

I'm planning on starting another thread later along the same line, using the twelve spies who spied out the Promised Land.

Israel's decision to go with science over faith is what cost them 40 years in the wilderness until that generation died out.

In fact, after God placed the Promised Land off-limits for the next forty years, they went ahead and tried to enter it anyway on their own, and God simply withdrew His protection and science did the rest.

 

[razeontherock]

Yep! So that draws your comment full circle, that David "told science to take a hike." any takers? (As I ready my sling )