My FTS Challenge

[AV1611VET]

How is this a game of KotM?

AV1611VET: God is self existent.

Scientific Methodists: No He isn't, the universe is.

Which one belongs at the top of the mountain?

God or the universe?

 

[Mobezom]

If God doesn't exist, then the universe obviously belongs at the top.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Well if you want to turn this into a game of King of the Mountain, the Bible wins by default.

Good thing, then:

1. This isn't a game of King of the Moutain
2. The Bible wins nothing by default.

 

[TLK Valentine]

AV1611VET: God is self existent.

Scientific Methodists: No He isn't, the universe is.

Which one belongs at the top of the mountain?

God or the universe?

If you want to play that game, the "winner" would be the one that indisputably exists.

Universe:1 God:0

 

[Mobezom]

Twisting words is fun and proves absolutely nothing, AV.

 

[AV1611VET]

Twisting words is fun and proves absolutely nothing, AV.

You mean like calling a child in the womb a "fetus," or calling miracles "magic"?

 

[Mobezom]

You mean like called a child in the womb a "fetus," or calling miracles "magic"?

Fetus: what would you have me call one? A child? Not specific enough. An "unborn child"? Not sciency enough. Fetus, embryo, zygote, gamete, these are the scientific terms. It doesn't mean that a fetus isn't human, any more than calling an adult human an "adult" makes them not-human.

Magic: magic is what lies beyond the edge of science and knowledge; it is "here be dragons," it is "it just works." Magic is anything that hasn't been analyzed yet, tested and reproduced yet. Sci-fi has magic coming out the wazoo, ferex. Most "magic" isn't real, like fairies and magic wands, but nuclear power and nuclear bombs would seem like magic to the Founding Fathers, even in the early 1900s. Magic doesn't mean wrong or bad, it just means "not scienced yet".

 

[AV1611VET]

Fetus: what would you have me call one? A child? Not specific enough.

It's too bad children have to die because you guys can't get "specific enough."

Magic: magic is what lies beyond the edge of science and knowledge;

So are miracles.

There are some things miracles can do that magic can't ... as Pharaoh's magicians found out.

That doesn't warrant you guys plutoing the term "miracles" to "magic."

 

[TLK Valentine]

It's too bad children have to die because you guys can't get "specific enough."

You'd prefer they die because God commands it?

There are some things miracles can do that magic can't ... as Pharaoh's magicians found out.

Or... pharaoh's magicians got out-magiced... No matter how good you are, there's always someone better...

 

[Mobezom]

It's too bad children have to die because you guys can't get "specific enough."So are miracles.

Calling a fetus a fetus doesn't justify abortion. Unlike you, I don't achieve my goals by twisting words until I am defined to have won.

Even if we assumed that a fetus was a child, a human being, with all the rights that entails, biology would still use the term fetus. Same as with gamete, zygote, embryo, etc. "Oh, but they dehumanize the baby!"? So does medicine, by that definition. Biology is coldly objective.

But biology doesn't say anything about when a human life begins. It can help us understand when human cognition begins (neuroscience and whatnot), but abortion is more of a philosophical issue than a scientific one.

Now, why on earth would you want the term "fetus" to go unused? Oh, I know! If the only terms for fetuses were emotionally charged words, it would reinforce your religious dogma. It's 1984 all over again - shape the language and you shape the speakers. Yeah, no [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ing way AV, I'll call a fetus a fetus.

There are some things miracles can do that magic can't ... as Pharaoh's magicians found out.

There are some things race cars can do that automobiles can't... as the tractor racer found out.

Sounds like nonsense? It is. By this definition of magic which I gave, miracles are a subset of "magic." So is sci-fi handwavium. Miracles are deity-related magic, that's all. According to your book, your magic is the best magic and nobody else's magic can beat it - okaaaay? Nice narrative you've got there...

That doesn't warrant you guys plutoing the term "miracles" to "magic."

You wanna talk Pluto? Sure, let's talk Pluto.

Pluto is weird. It's not like the other terrestrial planets - it's further out, it hasn't cleared its orbit, it's rather small, etc. So it gets a new category - dwarf planets. (Additionally, it gives its name to plutoids and plutinos, which are, respectively, trans-Neptunian dwarf planets and bodies in a 2:3 orbital resonance with Neptune.)

We now have three kinds of planets - terrestrial planets, Jovian planets, and dwarf planets. The dwarf planets wouldn't fit well in the terrestrial part, so they get their own room. Additionally, the term "planet", as it has traditionally been used, refers to the several large bodies around the Sun, not the smaller ones, so we group the first two together and call them "planets".

It's just a name - it's the easiest and best way of grouping the planetary-mass objects around the Sun.

 

[AV1611VET]

Pluto is weird.

When did Pluto start becoming "weird"? in 2006?

It's not like the other terrestrial planets - it's further out, it hasn't cleared its orbit, it's rather small, etc.

And how long was that known before Pluto suddenly came down with the "weirds"?

So it gets a new category - dwarf planets.

Ya ... by way of a rigged vote.

 

[Mobezom]

When did Pluto start becoming "weird"? in 2006?

As soon as it was discovered; nay, as soon as it began to exist. Pluto isn't like the terrestrial planets.

And how long was that known before Pluto suddenly came down with the "weirds"?

Until we found more dwarf planets, we thought that one oddball was fine, but we didn't want to invite dozens of dwarf planets to the party...

Ya ... by way of a rigged vote.

It's just a name! If you want Pluto to be a planet, consider PMOs to be planets and rename "planet" to "normal planet", your choice, but our standard terminology is this way.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's just a name!

Then why did [unqualified] scientists have to rig a vote, if Pluto's reclassification was so convincing?

 

[Mobezom]

Then why did [unqualified] scientists have to rig a vote, if Pluto's reclassification was so convincing?

Convincing? No. People like Pluto. They saw this as a "demotion". But it's really not.

 

[Kylie]

So much for your self-existent universe then, if you have to invoke Harry Potter and evict God.

Way to miss the point.

BTW, I never invoked Harry Potter to explain the formation of the universe, did I?

 

[Kylie]

Thank you, Kylie. (May I call you KTS?)

Feel free to call me Kylie if you like. I only have the KTS user name because Kyliue was already taken. So I used my initials.

In the face of evolution I try to remain good-Natured, and as I said, I don't want to offend anyone. Evolutionary scientists make this stuff called powdered milk, it's very dry and I can barely drink it. Still, we don't discriminate based on race, color or cream, so what prima facie looked to be a statement of fact (although it did not do the looking, it was actually the thing looked at) I understood as colloquialism, and for various reasons legal and moral I deemed it prudent for all concerned to ignore what you said. Fetishes are, heartbreakingly, not mine for the inducing.

My point was that evolution provided us with salivary glands because lubricated food is easier to swallow. If we did not have saliva glands, we would find it extremely painful to swallow. Of course, saliva is not the same as water...

 

[TLK Valentine]

When did Pluto start becoming "weird"? in 2006?And how long was that known before Pluto suddenly came down with the "weirds"?Ya ... by way of a rigged vote.

Not every vote is weird just because they disregard your input...

 

[TLK Valentine]

Then why did [unqualified] scientists have to rig a vote, if Pluto's reclassification was so convincing?

Are they "[unqualified]" because you didn't get a chance to qualify them?

 

[AV1611VET]

Not every vote is weird just because they disregard your input...

They disregarded a LOT of peoples' input.

They made sure of that; even breaking the rules to do it.

 

[AV1611VET]

Are they "[unqualified]" because you didn't get a chance to qualify them?

Nope.

They effectively filtered out the qualified ones; viz., the planetary astronomers.