My flood water challenge

OldWiseGuy

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What happens when the flood water reaches a wide scale geographic barrier? And what happens to the landscape behind and to the sides of such barriers?

For instance, what would be the flow when floowaters topped the Urals, Mongolian Plateau or the Rocky Mountains?

Would there be the same limited erosion?

As the water would be coming over the land pretty much from all directions there would be much less erosion than if it came from one direction. So floodwaters that top a steep hill would meet waters coming up the backside, thus no erosive rush of water down the backside.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Because 39.7 is less than 40, amounting to about 20 miles distance. But how do you know the ark never got below 40 degrees north?

The building site of the ark was likely near present day Baghdad, 33 north latitude. The flood carried the ark north into the Mts. of Ararat.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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The most important thing they 'teach' in college is how to think objectively and not rely solely on other people's subjectivity.

Regardless of education most people think subjectively i.e. "What's in it for me?"
 
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Speedwell

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The building site of the ark was likely near present day Baghdad, 33 north latitude. The flood carried the ark north into the Mts. of Ararat.
So if that is correct, the ark was built below 40 north and traveled to a point below 40 north, and yet you claim it's entire journey was above 40 north..
 
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OldWiseGuy

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So if that is correct, the ark was built below 40 north and traveled to a point below 40 north, and yet you claim it's entire journey was above 40 north..

I didn't claim that. If I wasn't clear I'm sorry. :(
 
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Speedwell

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OldWiseGuy

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The "mountains of Ararat" comprise a pretty large area. The exact latitude isn't that important. I was unable to find a detailed map of exact coordinates. Anyway the journey took place in the northern hemisphere.
 
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Bungle_Bear

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Nope.

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
How is causing others to lie not lying?

1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
 
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AV1611VET

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How is causing others to lie not lying?

1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
From Adam Clarke's Commentary:
He hath permitted or suffered a lying spirit to influence thy prophets. Is it requisite again to remind the reader that the Scriptures repeatedly represent God as doing what, in the course of his providence, he only permits or suffers to be done? Nothing can be done in heaven, in earth, or hell, but either by his immediate energy or permission. This is the reason why the Scripture speaks as above.
 
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SelfSim

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OldWiseGuy said:
SelfSim said:
The most important thing they 'teach' in college is how to think objectively and not rely solely on other people's subjectivity.
Regardless of education most people think subjectively i.e. "What's in it for me?"
Objective thinking still requires agreement amongst like thinking minds.
Its also highly useful for survival purposes .. which goes a long way in providing answers to such questions.
 
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SelfSim

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Bungle_Bear said:
AV1611VET said:
From Adam Clarke's Commentary: ...
As usual the question is avoided. Try again - as the commentary says, it is God's choice to allow others to lie. How is that not lying?
Not attempting to argue AV1611VET's counter quote (nor any religious PoV) .. but isn't God himself supposed to be taken as the sole arbiter of what is and isn't a lie? Ie: there is no 'truth' other than what he speaks, even if what he says isn't logical nor objectively evidenced(?)

The problem I have is that the way our minds work is also supposed to be 'in his likeness' and yet we apparently aren't permitted to perform miracles ourselves, nor understand his .. and now, not lie ourselves out of our own free will, even though we are capable of lying out of our own free will(?)
 
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Bungle_Bear

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Not attempting to argue AV1611VET's counter quote (nor any religious PoV) .. but isn't God himself supposed to be taken as the sole arbiter of what is and isn't a lie? Ie: there is no 'truth' other than what he speaks, even if what he says isn't logical nor objectively evidenced(?)

The problem I have is that the way our minds work is also supposed to be 'in his likeness' and yet we apparently aren't permitted to perform miracles ourselves, nor understand his .. and now, not lie ourselves out of our own free will, even though we are capable of lying out of our own free will(?)
Irrelevant. If God says he lied, he lied. And that's what the bible has God saying. Either that or God didn't lie, in which case that passage is a lie - apparently inspired by God, which makes God a liar.
 
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SelfSim

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Irrelevant. If God says he lied, he lied. And that's what the bible has God saying. Either that or God didn't lie, in which case that passage is a lie - apparently inspired by God, which makes God a liar.
Accepted!

Gee its hard to argue logically when the 'rules' for argument are illogical!

Its interesting to note that (for the umpteenth instance) it really comes down to what the words themselves mean. From what you said, I could speculate that there might be a lie of type#1 and a lie of type#2 here(?) :confused: Its a miracle! .. Hmm .. I know! .. I think I'll have ta go to college and bone-up on objective thinking!? ;)
 
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fwGod

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There wouldn't be much wind after 40 days of steady rain over all or most of the earth.
Steady rain..? You think that it was just a usual average steady rain..? You need to look at pictures that accurately show what a deluge of water is.

And you don't sound like you're sure that it was all of the earth? Nothing could stop the furious flow of water. The amount is greater than multiplied storms of torrential rain has ever given. Rain like that at the force that it came down creates furious winds. Or haven't you ever watched videos of a hurricane.. if you haven't actually been in one.
Temperature and air pressure would have equalized by then.
After the furious deluge.. no doubt about it. But in spite of your choosing to ignore the effects of a deluge I'm still talking about it.
The main flood waters came in about as fast as daily tides, not like a huge tsunami.
Tides only happen when there's dry land. Tides don't have the strong force that the deluge had. You're still using usual average flow of water to make your claims.

The flood of Noah made sure that all dry land was quickly turned to thick mud and several feet in depth. That could be another reason why water creatures died as well as land creatures. They took in muddy water instead of clear water.

A tsunami doesn't come anywhere near equal to that of a furious deluge of water that quickly covers the land. It would happen faster than any tsunami that has occurred post-Noah's flood.
They would cause little erosion over fairly flat ground covered with heavy vegetation.
The fast flowing water coming out of a fire hydrant can uproot vegetation and grass.. so a furious deluge by sheer unmeasurable volume can push any earth and rocks, trees and anything out of it's way.. and pile them up into mountains and carve out deep valleys. That's definitely more damage than some by comparison minor erosion.
And when the water gets deeper it would slow or even stop moving altogether at ground level as the flood ascended the land.
What ground level?, what land..? It was quickly and completely submerged under all that furious water. Nothing to indicate if the ark was even in the same geographical location where the ark had been built. Most likely it was on a large area of flat land, but they finally landed on a mountain. Who knows how far they were carried along in distance from their original spot of land by the fast moving waters?

A deluge would have been described this way. With such a forceful downpour the sinners of Noah's flood would of been knocked to the ground and pelted so hard that it would've opened up their skin. Or try the needles and pins setting in your shower some time. Or do a google search for images designated deluge force. If anyone did try to stand in it they'd be immediately pushed down to the ground.

The sinners of Noah's flood couldn't of run for safety, because the downpour upon them was holding them to the ground, to raise up even a little bit for most of them weakened by inability to get a decent breath of air, it would been like trying to lift up the upper level of roadway that fell on the cars of the lower level during the California earthquake.

All the sinners of Noah's flood could do was drown because they couldn't get air, all they breathed in would be the water.

Not only that but there was also the fountains of the deep that burst open and spewed out more water. Now with all of that going on, plus the deluge from above.. there's no way that it could have been described as less than a tsunami effect as you claim was all that it was.

The calm happened only when the deluge was over.
 
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AV1611VET

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Irrelevant. If God says he lied, he lied. And that's what the bible has God saying. Either that or God didn't lie, in which case that passage is a lie - apparently inspired by God, which makes God a liar.
The SPIRIT lied.

1 Kings 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
1 Kings 22:23 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
 
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