MY favorite arguments for the existence of the Christian God:

[Dave RP]

If I read every paper someone linked to here, I would have no time for life, much less time to post here. I always insist you bring a condensed version to the board and am doing that now.

Did you read it and are convinced it's true? Or are you just throwing things my way?

Yes I read it, yes I believe Mr. Hawking is an extraordinary genius and has been able to back up his theories with evidence.

I still don’t think we know how the universe started, maybe we’ll never know, but that still doesn’t make me say, blast we don’t know therefore it must be god.

 

[Kenny'sID]

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," Hawking said. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."

The Grand Design was Hawking's first major publication in almost a decade. Within his new work, Hawking set out to challenge Sir Isaac Newton's belief that the universe had to have been designed by God, simply because it could not have been born from chaos. "It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going," Hawking said.

Though I am a big Hawking fan for my own reasons, I have to go with Newton here. And how has that man managed to live this far past the 2yrs the doctors gave him? One reason I'm a fan, I guess.

The question remains, how did Hawking draw his conclusion?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

And here I was certain you would catch on.

Of course I don't want to pretend that or anything else, I merely want to point out that you changed things and did an improper experiment to prove mine wrong, you added what was it, lotion/whatever to the mix? So it is no longer what I described. And you were genuinely unable to pick up on that?

Your twist is a kin to putting on asbestos gloves, putting them/your finger in the fire for the length of time it would take to burn the average finger, and then telling me, "See, you were wrong, my finger is not burned".

Stunning.

Let's recap on who said what:

You: If I put my finger in a fire it gets burnt. Every time. No exceptions.
Me: Here's an example of how you can put your finger (completely unprotected) in fire and not get burnt.
You: But you've changed things. The guy used some sort of protection.

Seems you don't understand a) what you're talking about and b) what I demonstrated. It's really not difficult - not all substances burn at a temperature that will burn your finger. If you can't understand that then you really need to learn some basic science.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I still don’t think we know how the universe started, maybe we’ll never know, but that still doesn’t make me say, blast we don’t know therefore it must be god.

Fair enough, and that doesn't make me say, for the same reason, there is *no* God....he still makes perfect sense to me.

Hawking is an extraordinary genius and has been able to back up his theories with evidence.

And that evidence would be what we are after.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Let's recap on who said what:

You: If I put my finger in a fire it gets burnt. Every time. No exceptions.
Me: Here's an example of how you can put your finger (completely unprotected) in fire and not get burnt.
You: But you've changed things. The guy used some sort of protection.

Seems you don't understand a) what you're talking about and b) what I demonstrated. It's really not difficult - not all substances burn at a temperature that will burn your finger. If you can't understand that then you really need to learn some basic science.

Sorry, was hoping it wouldn't come to this and I really did try, but we're done with this. Maybe you can get someone else to agree your claim was the big "Gotcha" you think it was... I never will.

Dogma might work with you on that.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Oh, and my quotes on Hawking up there didn't come from the provided link...just ran across that while looking into his age.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Sorry, was hoping it wouldn't come to this and I really did try, but we're done with this. Maybe you can get someone else to agree your claim was the big "Gotcha" you think it was... I never will.

Dogma might work with you on that.

Why can't you just admit that you were wrong? Learn from your mistake and move on.

 

[Dave RP]

Fair enough, and that doesn't make me say, for the same reason, there is *no* God....he still makes perfect sense to me.



And that evidence would be what we are after.

Try this:

The Big Bang Theory

Or this:

Where did the universe come from?

They’ll only take 10 mins to read

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

And what pray tell else would I expect you to say?

So why ask?

lol. Jeez people, turn the attitude off.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

The question remains, how did Hawking draw his conclusion?

He used the laws of physics underlying the most successful current model of how the universe behaves to find a solution to how matter and energy could spontaneously appear from an 'empty' zero energy state in which those laws apply - commonly referred to as 'nothing'. It turns out that 'nothing' is metastable and can generate a universe (or universes).

If you want to know where this background state ('nothing') came from, the likely answer would be - we don't know, but maybe it's always been there.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Are you really completely incapable of seeing the cause of said irony.

Amazing....take some responsibility

 

[Kenny'sID]

Why can't you just admit that you were wrong? Learn from your mistake and move on.

Ah, another dose of child psychology. Man, you really have my attention now.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Try this:

The Big Bang Theory

Or this:

Where did the universe come from?

They’ll only take 10 mins to read

Since you seem to be the olu one left here not wasting time, I'll take a loof when I get the chance, but in the end, surely you know it's not going to do a thing for me.

May I ask why an Atheist would come to a Christian site and attempt to convince them there was no God? I ask because the way some go on here, it seems extremely important they do that.

 

[bhsmte]

Why can't you just admit that you were wrong? Learn from your mistake and move on.

That would be too painful.

 

[Speedwell]

Since you seem to be the olu one left here not wasting time, I'll take a loof when I get the chance, but in the end, surely you know it's not going to do a thing for me.

May I ask why an Atheist would come to a Christian site and attempt to convince them there was no God? I ask because the way some go on here, it seems extremely important they do that.

You have to consider the political aspect. If it wasn't for that, nobody would care what you believed or try to talk you out of it, any more than we care that Seventh-Day Adventists don't eat meat or that Mormons wear funny underwear. What the argument boils down to is, "You don't have enough evidence for the existence of your god to force it on me--in the schools, in the courts or anywhere else."

 

[Kenny'sID]

You have to consider the political aspect. If it wasn't for that, nobody would care what you believed or try to talk you out of it, any more than we care that Seventh-Day Adventists don't eat meat or that Mormons wear funny underwear.

You saying that makes it true? And you're talking about no one believing me? lol

"You don't have enough evidence for the existence of your god to force it on me--in the schools, in the courts or anywhere else."

Yep, the tired old answer:

"Boo hoo, we don't want you forcing our kids to believe in a God, not while we are forcing our unproven nothing from nothing beliefs on them."

At the very best they cancel each other out so it's just an excuse, an no one is as mistreated as they claim.

And this "we do it for the children" cop out...I don't buy it.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

"Boo hoo, we don't want you forcing our kids to believe in a God, not while we are forcing our unproven nothing from nothing beliefs on them."

If you really meant 'nothing from nothing', that statement is incoherent.

If you meant 'something from nothing', it's a strawman on two counts - firstly atheism has nothing to say about 'something from nothing', and secondly, if you meant atheist scientists, they would not be forcing 'something from nothing beliefs' on anyone; the scientific answer in that context is, 'we don't know'. 'Something from nothing' is an hypothesis, just one of a number of suggestions to be considered.

 

[Speedwell]

You saying that makes it true? And you're talking about no one believing me? lol

Creationism is not science. Even if creationists were right about our origins and scientists wrong, it still wouldn't be science, because it rests on an entirely different epistemological foundation than science does. Since the principle purpose of basic science classes as taught in the public schools is to teach scientific epistemology--how science gathers data and reaches conslusions--creationism has no place there.

"Boo hoo, we don't want you forcing our kids to believe in a God, not while we are forcing our unproven nothing from nothing beliefs on them."

Creationism is a sectarian religious doctrine which not even all Christians subscribe to--in fact, most do not. The rhetorical device of trying to turn it into a cosmic struggle between theism and atheism is bankrupt. You should give it up.

And this "we do it for the children" cop out...I don't buy it.

It's true. We do it for the children. Not just those few who come from atheist homes, but for Catholic children, mainline Protestant children, Orthodox children, even Buddhist and Muslim children. Why should they be subject to indoctrination with your particular religious dogma?

 

[Dave RP]

Since you seem to be the olu one left here not wasting time, I'll take a loof when I get the chance, but in the end, surely you know it's not going to do a thing for me.

May I ask why an Atheist would come to a Christian site and attempt to convince them there was no God? I ask because the way some go on here, it seems extremely important they do that.

The opening proposition of this thread was “my favourite arguments for the existence of the Christian god” and it was written on a debating site, where religious adherents and non religious adherents can discuss their individual thoughts.

I’m not trying to persuade you not to believe, faith is a very personal thing and I respect anyone’s faith. My current lady friend is a committed Christian and I respect her faith, even though I don’t sheare it.

But this is s debating site, I’m showing you why I do not have they faith, and you ate explaining why you do??

It’s not personal and no one is “correct” we just have conflicting views, we might be right or wrong - we’ll maybe find out later, but we are not having an argument.

Best wished

 

[Skreeper]

Why can't you just admit that you were wrong? Learn from your mistake and move on.

I have noticed that the older people get the more stubborn and closed-minded some people become. I think Kenny pretty much proves that observation.