My Discovery Challenge

[AV1611VET]

So, no, it seems that Moses didn't write that part of the Bible.

For the sake of argument, let's say you're right.

Now ... please answer my challenge, would you?

 

[Kylie]

How is it that the common people knew the universe had a beginning long before "modern" scientists came along and discovered the universe had a beginning?

Because people wanted to know how the world got here and how it got the way it is. You'll find that most cultures have some kind of creation myth. Christianity isn't special.

By the same token, how is it that the common people knew the universe was expanding long before "modern" scientists came along and discovered the universe is expanding?

Citation required.

Did "modern" scientists really discover it? or are they just confirming something that was already written in a [book] they don't want taught in school?

They found evidence for something. You have not yet shown that your religion made the claim. Indeed, I seem to recall that most people thought the universe was unchanging.

 

[gaara4158]

So Moses didn't write it either?

You tell me! You're the one talking like you know these things. Show me!

 

[AV1611VET]

Citation required.

You're not aware of the Bible speaking of the universe being stretched?

 

[AV1611VET]

You tell me!

I already did.

I believe Adam wrote Genesis 1.

You're the one talking like you know these things.

Really? Just made that up, did I?

Show me!

Tablet Theory

 

[Moral Orel]

Adam walked and talked with God often (daily?).

How long were they in the Garden before they screwed up? Since they got kicked out before Adam knocked up Eve, I can't imagine it was long at all...

 

[AV1611VET]

How long were they in the Garden before they screwed up? Since they got kicked out before Adam knocked up Eve, I can't imagine it was long at all...

I'm not going to dignify this with a response.

 

[Moral Orel]

I'm not going to dignify this with a response.

Should I have phrased it more delicately? Seems like a good question to me...

 

[Kylie]

You're not aware of the Bible speaking of the universe being stretched?

I'm not aware of any passage which clearly and unambiguously states that the universe is expanding in size.

Are you talking about that passage that speaks of the heavens being stretched across the sky or something? Because that doesn't fit the bill. It's vague and people only started claiming that passage spoke of an expanding universe AFTER science showed that the universe was expanding. Before that, it was generally accepted that the universe was unchanging.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm not aware of any passage which clearly and unambiguously states that the universe is expanding in size.

There's a difference between "expanding" and "stretching."

Expanding grows in size internally; stretching grows in size externally.

The Bible speaks of the universe being "stretched."

That means something outside of it is pulling on it.

Are you talking about that passage that speaks of the heavens being stretched across the sky or something?

Or something.

Psalm 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out;

Because that doesn't fit the bill.

Then get better currency.

It's vague and people only started claiming that passage spoke of an expanding universe AFTER science showed that the universe was expanding.

Another easter egg confirmed by science.

Before that, it was generally accepted that the universe was unchanging.

IF that's true, it was done in spite of the Bible, not with respect to It.

 

[Kylie]

There's a difference between "expanding" and "stretching."

Expanding grows in size internally; stretching grows in size externally.

The Bible speaks of the universe being "stretched."

That means something outside of it is pulling on it.

Or something.

Psalm 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out;

Is there a dictionary in the world that supports this, or are you just randomly redefining words so they can mean whatever you want in order to try to support your point?

Then get better currency.

Reality, mate. Best currency there is.

Another easter egg confirmed by science.

Shall we add "confirm" to the ever increasing list of things you don't understand? Also, "easter egg."

IF that's true, it was done in spite of the Bible, not with respect to It.

You know, EVERYONE thought the universe was unchanging prior to about the 1920s, INCLUDING the church!

 

[ruthiesea]

You know, EVERYONE thought the universe was unchanging prior to about the 1920s, INCLUDING the church!

Theory of

Even Einstein favored the Steady State Theory, even though his General Theory of Relativity showed an expanding universe. He finally came around after that was pointed out to him several times and as the result of many experiments that showed it to be true.

 

[AV1611VET]

Is there a dictionary in the world that supports this,

Yup.

As verbs the difference between stretch and expand is that stretch is to lengthen by pulling while expand is to change from a smaller form and/or size to a larger one.

SOURCE

 

[Mr Laurier]

How is it that the common people knew the universe had a beginning long before "modern" scientists came along and discovered the universe had a beginning?

By not knowing any such thing.
Folk tales and mythology are not knowledge.

 

[AV1611VET]

By not knowing any such thing.

What's this then?

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created ...

 

[Mr Laurier]

What's this then?

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created ...

A line of text. And a fragment ripped from a longer section

 

[AV1611VET]

A line of text. And a fragment ripped from a longer section

If that's all you see, then you're missing the bigger picture:

The common people knew the universe had a beginning long before "modern" scientists came along and discovered the universe had a beginning.

 

[Mr Laurier]

If that's all you see, then you're missing the bigger picture:

The common people knew the universe had a beginning long before "modern" scientists came along and discovered the universe had a beginning.

The common people THOUGHT the universe had a beginning.
They had no evidence.
They had only mythology. Stories and songs. And no facts.
They assumed that the universe was small, and young.
The bible writers assumed the universe was a solid structure over a flat disk. And the disk itself resting on pillars.
They thought the stars were small. And very close.
They thought that stars were conscious beings. Aware and actively involved in the lives of people. They had a particularly limited view of the universe, even by the standards of the late bronze age.
The Chinese. The Hindus. The Egyptians. The proto-Inca. All had a better understanding of the universe, than did the people who wrote the bible.


Astronomers discovered that the universe was vast, and the stars were huge balls of burning gas. And there were more stars than could be seen by the naked eye.

Physicists discovered how stars actually work. Not burning gas, but converting it via nuclear fusion. Creating heavier elements.

Cosmologists discovered galaxies, and quasars, and black holes.
They discovered the age of the universe.

When the scientists you so disparage, calculated the age of the earth to 4.5 billion years, Hindu priests checked their scriptures and found that the age was close enough to make no difference. They cheered that science had discovered the Vedas.
Maybe you should start leaving offerings of milk and flowers out for Shiva.

 

[AV1611VET]

The common people THOUGHT the universe had a beginning.

And I would venture to say that, if some academians went back in time and attempted to show the common people that the universe started out as a primordial atom in 13,700,000, 000 BC, the common people would die a martyr's death disagreeing -- (if it came to that).

Maybe you should start leaving offerings of milk and flowers out for Shiva.

That advice led to the Sarin attacks on Tokyo years ago.

Remember Shoko Asahara, who wanted to worship Shiva in aumshinri kyo ("pure truth")?

 

[Mr Laurier]

And I would venture to say that, if some academians went back in time and attempted to show the common people that the universe started out as a primordial atom in 13,700,000, 000 BC, the common people would die a martyr's death disagreeing

You would be wrong then. As usual.
If some divinity students from the seminaries of christian Europe went back in time to show earlier people that the universe was older than their mythology indicated, they would most likely be invited to tell their story over roast mutton and wine.
Nobody would "die a martyr's death".

-- (if it came to that).That advice led to the Sarin attacks on Tokyo years ago.

When you resort to flat out lies, you discredit yourself. So dont do it please.

Remember Shoko Asahara, who wanted to worship Shiva in aumshinri kyo ("pure truth")?

No. i dont.