My Discovery Challenge

[AV1611VET]

How is it that the common people knew the universe had a beginning long before "modern" scientists came along and discovered the universe had a beginning?

By the same token, how is it that the common people knew the universe was expanding long before "modern" scientists came along and discovered the universe is expanding?

Did "modern" scientists really discover it? or are they just confirming something that was already written in a [book] they don't want taught in school?

Without that [book], they can claim they discovered it; rather than [embarrassingly] have to claim they are only really confirming it.

 

[Dawnhammer]

How is it that the common people knew the universe had a beginning long before "modern" scientists came along and discovered the universe had a beginning?

Because everything they knew had a beginning they made an educated guess their world and universe also had a beginning?

As for universe expanding they had no idea.

[Staff edit].

 

[Strathos]

So let me get this straight. You are arguing that:

A. The Bible says the universe had a beginning.
B. Scientists later discovered the universe had a beginning (The Big Bang)
C. Therefore, science confirms the Bible.

However, you are also arguing that:

A. The earth and the universe are only 6000 years old, and the Big Bang never happened.
B. Therefore, scientists are wrong about it.

There is a contradiction here.

 

[AV1611VET]

A. The Bible says the universe had a beginning.
B. Scientists later discovered the universe had a beginning (The Big Bang)
C. Therefore, science confirms the Bible.

A. Genesis 1:1a In the beginning ...

B. I am using "discovered" from their point of view. It irks me they claim it as a "discovery," and not a "confirmation."

C. Yes ... science confirms the Bible.

A. The earth and the universe are only 6000 years old, and the Big Bang never happened.
B. Therefore, scientists are wrong about it.

A. No, the earth and the universe are not only 6000 years old. They are as old as God created them. It's called "embedded age." And yes ... the Big Bang never happened. In fact, Peter mentions a "great noise" at the end of the universe; not the beginning.

B. If the Bible says otherwise, then yes, scientists are wrong about it.

 

[Hieronymus]

B. Scientists later discovered the universe had a beginning (The Big Bang)

The big bang is not a discovery, it's a naturalistic model they want you to believe / try to prove.

 

[Strathos]

A. Genesis 1:1a In the beginning ...

B. I am using "discovered" from their point of view. It irks me they claim it as a "discovery," and not a "confirmation."

C. Yes ... science confirms the Bible.


A. No, the earth and the universe are not only 6000 years old. They are as old as God created them. It's called "embedded age." And yes ... the Big Bang never happened. In fact, Peter mentions a "great noise" at the end of the universe; not the beginning.

B. If the Bible says otherwise, then yes, scientists are wrong about it.

You don't see the contradiction here?

EDIT: BTW, there would have been no noise as we understand it until several years afterwards.

 

[Hieronymus]

By the same token, how is it that the common people knew the universe was expanding long before "modern" scientists came along and discovered the universe is expanding?

Are you referring to "God stretched out the heavens" ?
Would God still be stretching out the heavens?

 

[Divide]

How is it that the common people knew the universe had a beginning long before "modern" scientists came along and discovered the universe had a beginning?

By the same token, how is it that the common people knew the universe was expanding long before "modern" scientists came along and discovered the universe is expanding?

Did "modern" scientists really discover it? or are they just confirming something that was already written in a [book] they don't want taught in school?

Without that [book], they can claim they discovered it; rather than [embarrassingly] have to claim they are only really confirming it.

That's right Brother. I think long ago they knew these things because there was a closer relationship with the spirit realm and these things were taught. Seeing Angels was not a big deal to them in biblical days because indoctrination was not widepread yet. So they knew some of these things. Then the mind of man was lost and these facts about the world. Until...ta-da! look what we discovered! Lol.

 

[A_Thinker]

However, you are also arguing that:

A. The earth and the universe are only 6000 years old, and the Big Bang never happened.
B. Therefore, scientists are wrong about it.

There is a contradiction here.

I didn't catch this part of his argument ...

 

[A_Thinker]

A. No, the earth and the universe are not only 6000 years old. They are as old as God created them. It's called "embedded age." And yes ... the Big Bang never happened. In fact, Peter mentions a "great noise" at the end of the universe; not the beginning.

What are your reasons for saying the "Big Bang" never happened ?

Many christians correlate the Big Bang with God's command "Let there be Light" ...

 

[Divide]

Many christians correlate the Big Bang with God's command "Let there be Light" ...

Huh. That could be. ...let there be light... BANG, it happened. Maybe.

 

[gaara4158]

How is it that the common people knew the universe had a beginning long before "modern" scientists came along and discovered the universe had a beginning?

By the same token, how is it that the common people knew the universe was expanding long before "modern" scientists came along and discovered the universe is expanding?

Did "modern" scientists really discover it? or are they just confirming something that was already written in a [book] they don't want taught in school?

Without that [book], they can claim they discovered it; rather than [embarrassingly] have to claim they are only really confirming it.

Sounds like the challenge is on you. Did they really know all that? How? Can you demonstrate this?

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you referring to "God stretched out the heavens" ?
Would God still be stretching out the heavens?

That's a good question that I've addressed before.

The Bible speaks of the universe both being "stretched" and "stretching;" and I like to use the analogy of a smoke-filled balloon to explain it.

If you blow a balloon up with smoke (or any gas), then in a moment of time, expand that balloon out to ... say ... a mile in all directions, what happens?

The gas begins to expand to fill the balloon.

So the balloon (and its contents) are both stretched (past tense) and stretching (present tense) at the same time.

 

[Divide]

Sounds like the challenge is on you. Did they really know all that? How? Can you demonstrate this?

Proof is all over. They have found old maps of the world that pre-date "discovery" of certain continents and stuff. It's out there if one digs around for it.

 

[AV1611VET]

What are your reasons for saying the "Big Bang" never happened ?

Cosmic evolution is by way of creatio ex materia; whereas the creation week includes acts of creatio ex nihilo.

Think about it: the universe started out with zero mass/energy, then was raised to its current level today over a six-day period.

Many christians correlate the Big Bang with God's command "Let there be Light" ...

Earth came before [electromagnetic] light.

God first created the earth, and then created the light.

So technically, the earth has been in existence longer than light itself.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sounds like the challenge is on you. Did they really know all that? How? Can you demonstrate this?

Adam walked and talked with God often (daily?).

I'm sure God told Adam how He did it.

 

[A_Thinker]

Cosmic evolution is by way of creatio ex materia; whereas the creation week includes acts of creatio ex nihilo.

Think about it: the universe started out with zero mass/energy, then was raised to its current level today over a six-day period.

Earth came before [electromagnetic] light.

God first created the earth, and then created the light.

So technically, the earth has been in existence longer than light itself.

I think that you may be taking the text of Genesis too literally.

Current thinking is that it is Moses who wrote the first five books of the Bible (including Genesis).

That's a long time for information to be accurately handed down ... to detail anything other than the general belief that God CREATED the universe (i.e. heavens and earth).

You begin to run into problems when you try and take the text that literally (numbers don't match up, etc.) ...

 

[drjean]

God put the knowledge of Him and His universe within the heart of mankind.

At the Tower of Babel everyone was of like mind, intelligent, and when scattered throughout the earth took that same knowledge in different languages throughout the earth.

Romans 1
19 Because that which may be known of GOD is MANIFEST in them; for God hath SHEWED it unto them.
20 For the INVISIBLE things of HIM from the creation of the world ARE clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are WITHOUT excuse:
21 Because that, when they KNEW God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Genesis 11-12
11 Now the whole earth used the same language and the same words. .................4 They said, “Come, let us build for ourselves a city, and a tower whose top will reach into heaven, and let us make for ourselves a name, otherwise we will be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.” 5 The Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. 6 The Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them.

7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech.” 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city. 9 Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of the whole earth; and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of the whole earth.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think that you may be taking the text of Genesis too literally.

I'd rather err on the side of too literal than too loose; as Nadab and Abihu found out in Leviticus 10.

Current thinking is that it is Moses who wrote the first five books of the Bible (including Genesis).

Moses edited Genesis; not wrote it.

That's a long time for information to be accurately handed down ... to detail anything other than the general belief that God CREATED the universe (i.e. heavens and earth).

I'm sure God superintended His work.

After all, He places the Bible above His own name.

Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

You begin to run into problems when you try and take the text that literally (numbers don't match up, etc.) ...

I can handle it.

 

[A_Thinker]

I'd rather err on the side of too literal than too loose; as Nadab and Abihu found out in Leviticus 10.

Fortunately, we live in the age of Grace ...