My Day One Challenge

[AV1611VET]

Even if science didn't exist when the universe and world began, we can still use science to look back at the world and its history.

What history?

The earth was created without a history.

Whether you believe it was created in 4004 BC or 4,543,000,000 BC; it was created without a history.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

What history?

The earth was created without a history.

Whether you believe it was created in 4004 BC or 4,543,000,000 BC; it was created without a history.

That's only your claim based on a VERY strange reading of the Bible, a claim that you have no evidence to back it up with.

 

[AV1611VET]

That's only your claim based on a VERY strange reading of the Bible,

Genesis 1:1 is all you should be concerned with in this thread.

That should filter out all "very strange readings" and greatly simplify this challenge.

You don't have to worry that I'm going to counter anything with some far-fetched interpretation of an obscure passage.

Just confine theology to Genesis 1:1; and science to astronomy, biology, and geology.

Easy peasy.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Genesis 1:1 is all you should be concerned with in this thread.

That should filter out all "very strange readings" and greatly simplify this challenge.

You don't have to worry that I'm going to counter anything with some far-fetched interpretation of an obscure passage.

Just confine theology to Genesis 1:1; and science to astronomy, biology, and geology.

Easy peasy.

I did, hence why my answer was: none of the above.

And I'm not worried of you referring to some obscure passage. It's your far-fetched interpretations of well known and simple passages that I refer to.

 

[AV1611VET]

I did, hence why my answer was: none of the above.

And I'm not worried of you referring to some obscure passage. It's your far-fetched interpretations of well known and simple passages that I refer to.

IOW, you're trolling now?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

IOW, you're trolling now?

Pot calling the kettle black here.

But, I will stop now.

 

[AV1611VET]

But, I will stop now.

Thank you.

Good choice.

As I was planning to call you out, every time you strayed from Genesis 1:1, astronomy, biology, or geology.

 

[Kylie]

Here is the Earth during a segment of Day One of the Creation Week:

A mass of sea water in the hollow of God's hand.

Isaiah 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand,

Genesis 1:2a And the earth was without form, and void;

Which do not apply, in your opinion:

1. astronomy
2. biology
3. geology
4. all the above
5. none of the above

I take the account of creation week to be mythology, therefore I don't see why any of it applies.

In any case, there are passages in the creation story which contradict astronomy.

 

[AV1611VET]

In any case, there are passages in the creation story which contradict astronomy.

There is only one passage that applies here:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

 

[Hans Blaster]

There is only one passage that applies here:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Sounds like you need a folklorist. Or some sort of ancient literature expert.

 

[SelfSim]

There is only one passage that applies here:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Is that one of the four things that God himself wrote?

 

[Kylie]

There is only one passage that applies here:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

In that case, the bit you ignored applies.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sounds like you need a folklorist. Or some sort of ancient literature expert.

To get people off the hook that want to discuss anything but astronomy, biology, and geology, as they apply to the earth in Genesis 1:1?

 

[AV1611VET]

Is that one of the four things that God himself wrote?

Off-topic, but God wrote the Ten Commandments twice, MENE MENE TEKEL UPHARISIN on the wall, and stooped down and wrote in the sand in front of an audience who had brought Him a woman taken in adultery.

 

[AV1611VET]

In that case, the bit you ignored applies.

Who's ignoring more? you or I?

 

[driewerf]

Just confine theology to Genesis 1:1;

Excellent suggestion!

Good fences make good friends, or as the late (and still so inspiring!) Stephen Jay Gould said, religion and science are Not Overlapping Magisteria. NOMA. Fine. Let religion squabble about the nature of the soul, the difference between Purgatory and Hell, the question whether someone can be safed by good works or by grace alone. Let the spiritual be religion’s Magisterium.

Science’s job is to describe and explain the physical. The material, the real world. And science has strict rules when dealing with the physical: empirical evidence is the ultimate arbiter. Not authority, not revelation, not disbelieve. Empirical evidence.

You guys want to debate the question of “Once Saved Always Saved”. Good. Fine. But the moment you cross the fence and make statements about the physical world, you enter science’s realm and play by science’s rules.

The Flood? A physical event, hence where is the empirical evidence?

The changing of water into wine at the Wedding of Cana? A very material thing, hence you play by science’s rules.

The Creation Week? Again, a statement about the material Universe. You enter Science’s playground so again empirical evidence shall be the only accepted argument.


If you can’t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. If you don’t want to stick with these rules, then don’t cross the fence. Stay in your safe space or echo chamber, aka your church, mosque, synagogue or Sunday School.


Good fences make good friends, or at least, they clarify the rules by which the discussions are to be held.

 

[Hans Blaster]

To get people off the hook that want to discuss anything but astronomy, biology, and geology, as they apply to the earth in Genesis 1:1?

Since the item you offer for study is *a sentence* what is any science supposed to do with it?

Two of the things in your sentence are outside the study range of science: "heaven" and "God". One a sort of place outside the realm of nature and the other a deity.

The final item "the Earth" is studied by science in various fields, but your single sentence doesn't provide any thing about it to study. (And *no* science doesn't study supernatural "creation" of things.)

Once again, you have created a thread on the science board, with only the thinnest connection to anything related to science.

(Though at least this time you single verse was at least a whole sentence rather than a fragment.)

 

[driewerf]

And therefore astronomy, biology, and geology need not apply -- right?

The sciences you list apply to the real world. Not the mythical world of Genesis 1.

 

[driewerf]

This is why I started this thread.

It's about one single verse, dealing with one single act of God, during one single day of creation, and questions on three -- that's ONLY THREE -- disciplines of science: astronomy, biology, and geology.

To say I "talk nonsense" is a cheap shot that does not respect this thread.

You will probably have some success in your safe space a.k.a. you church or Sunday school. But once you apply Genesis 1 to the physical world or try to apply good sciences to Genesis 1, what you write turns into nonsense.
Once you make statements about the physical world, a.k.a. reality, science's rules apply.

 

[AV1611VET]

Good fences make good friends, or as the late (and still so inspiring!) Stephen Jay Gould said, religion and science are Not Overlapping Magisteria. NOMA. Fine. Let religion squabble about the nature of the soul, the difference between Purgatory and Hell, the question whether someone can be safed by good works or by grace alone. Let the spiritual be religion’s Magisterium.

Not in this thread though, please.