My church just changed their stance on homosexuals. What do I do?

[true2theword]

I think "simplistic" is the word you are searching for.

Again, when real people ask for real advice, it is my opinion that that is what we owe them.

and thats what I gave him, I said get out of that ungodly church....a Godly church is one that keeps His commands

and the simplicity of the issue makes sense

 

[grandma dolittle]

and thats what I gave him, I said get out of that ungodly church....a Godly church is one that keeps His commands

and the simplicity of the issue makes sense

Amen!!!!!

 

[ByTheSpirit]

and thats what I gave him, I said get out of that ungodly church....a Godly church is one that keeps His commands

and the simplicity of the issue makes sense

What are God's commands though? Humor me a little

 

[grandma dolittle]

What are God's commands though? Humor me a little

Read Romans1:25-28; I Corinthians 3:16-17; 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than you have receive, let him be cursed. I Timothy 4:1-2 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; ... Speaking lies in hypocrisy: having their conscience seared with a hot iron.


enough humor?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Read Romans1:25-28; I Corinthians 3:16-17; 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than you have receive, let him be cursed. I Timothy 4:1-2 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; ... Speaking lies in hypocrisy: having their conscience seared with a hot iron.


enough humor?

So I suppose you don't know or you just don't understand a little.... Let me quote some Bible to you...
Isaiah 65:1-5
1 "I made myself available to those who did not ask for me; I appeared to those who did not look for me. I said, 'Here I am! Here I am!' to a nation that did not invoke my name. 2 I spread out my hands all day long to my rebellious people, who lived in a way that is morally unacceptable, and who did what they desired. 3 These people continually and blatantly offend me as they sacrifice in their sacred orchards and burn incense on brick altars. 4 They sit among the tombs and keep watch all night long. They eat pork, and broth from unclean sacrificial meat is in their pans. 5 They say, 'Keep to yourself! Don't get near me, for I am holier than you!' These people are like smoke in my nostrils, like a fire that keeps burning all day long.

Luke 18:9-14
9 Jesus also told this parable to some who were confident that they were righteous and looked down on everyone else. 10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed about himself like this: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people: extortionists, unrighteous people, adulterers - or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give a tenth of everything I get.' 13 The tax collector, however, stood far off and would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, be merciful to me, sinner that I am!' 14 I tell you that this man went down to his home justified rather than the Pharisee. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

Ok so now that I've played along what are God's commands? Pretty sure they are as follows...
Matthew 22:36-40
[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
[37] And He said to him, "'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
[38] "This is the great and foremost commandment.
[39] "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
[40] "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

Im not saying homosexual lifestyle is to be accepted, but we don't need to treat them like a plague either. But don't worry Im sure God is pleased that there are people in His church that hate sinners.

 

[grandma dolittle]

I don't feel more righteous than anyone else. Goodness, NO! But I do feel that any church that would totally disregard what God said was a sin and accept it as part of their church is wrong. Any minister that teaches that is wrong. However, I do feel a gay person or any other sinner should be welcome, but not accepted as a member until they have repented of their sins... if it be me or anyone else.

I agree that to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart , and with all thy soul, and with all they mind, and with all they strength: this is the first commandment... and the second is thou shall love thy neighbor as thy self... is two of the greatest commandments. However, christ did not take away from the ten commandments... in fact he said to break one and teach men to do so shall be called the least in heaven.... Matthew 5:18-19

We can't pick and choose. Christ left us with many things to guide our lives by.... but Paul was pick by Christ and given the message Christ wanted the Gentiles to hear. I don't liove by the laws laid down for the Hebrew nation, but I try to live by the teachings of Christ and the Ten Commandments.


For your information... I don't hate sinners. Paul said to hate the sin... not the sinner... and NO I am not homophobic!!!!

 

[Albion]

I don't feel more righteous than anyone else. Goodness, NO! But I do feel that any church that would totally disregard what God said was a sin and accept it as part of their church is wrong.

But let's remember that in the OP we were told that the church was not doing that. It was taking the less controversial approach, teaching that we have to love the persecuted, not exclude people from the church, and so on. The inquirer's situation is made especially difficult for him because he suspects that this is only the first step in the church's coming acceptance of homosexual relations (he's probably right about that), but his wife thinks that that critical line has yet to be crossed and so is willing to be more patient. If the church were already openly pro-same sex marriage and calling all forms of "love" equally good and right in God's eyes, she would be more inclined to agree to leave for another church with him.

 

[dollarsbill]

This is an extreme contradiction to Scripture. Salvation is becoming blurred by Satan. I would leave immediately.

 

[Albion]

This is an extreme contradiction to Scripture.

What is?

I would leave immediately.

Yes.

But his situation is different from yours.

 

[dollarsbill]

What is?

"Recently my church announced that they apologize for their anti gay stance, and have changed official doctrine to recognize that homosexuals are born that way."

Yes.

But his situation is different from yours.

I would still leave.

 

[Albion]

"Recently my church announced that they apologize for their anti gay stance, and have changed official doctrine to recognize that homosexuals are born that way."

Scripture says that homosexuals are not born that way?

I would still leave.

Me too. However, I feel that we should try harder to appreciate the bind that this man is in. He knows right from wrong, but his wife is trying to tell herself that the church's changes do not yet warrant a move...that they are are still just in the range of "hate the sin, love the sinner, etc." I'm very reluctant to tell anyone to do something that, if not handled exactly right, could sew some discord between a man and his wife.

 

[dollarsbill]

Scripture says that homosexuals are not born that way?

Scripture doesn't say they are.

Me too. However, I feel that we should try harder to appreciate the bind that this man is in. He knows right from wrong, but his wife is trying to tell herself that the church's changes do not yet warrant a move...that they are are still just in the range of "hate the sin, love the sinner, etc." I'm very reluctant to tell anyone to do something that, if not handled exactly right, could sew some discord between a man and his wife.

I wasn't giving direct advice, though I can see why you would think that.

 

[Albion]

Scripture doesn't say they are.

Then scripture can hardly be abused if someone speculates that it's a birth defect that causes homosexuality. And while we could continue to debate that fine point that even science hasn't decided on, it's another example of how the husband sees the handwriting on the wall and anticipates the church heading steadily more and more into exonerating homosexual activity while the wife still thinks that's an overreaction on his part.

The reason he came to us, I suspect, is not to see if we think he should leave the congregation but rather how to get his wife to wake up to what's going on without him seeming to be a dictator or an alarmist.

 

[dollarsbill]

Then scripture can hardly be abused if someone speculates that it's a birth defect that causes homosexuality.

Does it really matter? The Bible doesn't give excuses for sin.

 

[grandma dolittle]

Then scripture can hardly be abused if someone speculates that it's a birth defect that causes homosexuality. And while we could continue to debate that fine point that even science hasn't decided on, it's another example of how the husband sees the handwriting on the wall and anticipates the church heading steadily more and more into exonerating homosexual activity while the wife still thinks that's an overreaction on his part.

The reason he came to us, I believe, is not to see if we think he should leave the congregation but rather how to get his wife to wake up to what's going on without him seeming to be a dictator or an alarmist.

I am sorry, but I don't believe a gay person is born that way.

 

[Caesars Ghost]

My church came under fire for donating resources and man hours to pass Proposition 8 in California...

As it should have.
It is against the IRS tax regulations that give your church it's 501c3 religious tax exemption, for that church to then lobby, or monetarily support any legislative measures.

As for your not agreeing with the churches policies about homosexuals, I'd think it's an easy decision. Change churches. Or seek out a more conservative branch of your tradition that is not so liberal minded.

The church is violating God's word. It's no longer a church.

 

[dollarsbill]

I am sorry, but I don't believe a gay person is born that way.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NASB)
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Albion]

Does it really matter? The Bible doesn't give excuses for sin.

Sure it matters. You said its an "extreme contradiction to scripture." Turns out it isn't a contradiction at all.

As you say here, scripture teaches that engaging in homosexual acts is a sin, but doesn't analyze or take a stand on how one becomes a homosexual. It doesn't need to. So I agree with you there.

What that means in the case of the congregation referred to in the OP, however, is that the church's leadership is softening up the members by making homosexual activity seem not the fault of the homosexual. They are playing on the basic nature of Christians to be understanding and charitable.

The husband sees this for the ruse that it is but the wife is still thinking the way the pastor wants her to think about it.

 

[grandma dolittle]

As it should have.
It is against the IRS tax regulations that give your church it's 501c3 religious tax exemption, for that church to then lobby, or monetarily support any legislative measures.

As for your not agreeing with the churches policies about homosexuals, I'd think it's an easy decision. Change churches. Or seek out a more conservative branch of your tradition that is not so liberal minded.

The church is violating God's word. It's no longer a church.

Ghost,
a good post.

 

[dollarsbill]

Sure it matters. You said its an "extreme contradiction to scripture." Turns out it isn't a contradiction at all.

As you say here, scripture teaches that engaging in homosexual acts is a sin, but doesn't tell us how one becomes a homosexual. What that means in the case of the congregation referred to in the OP is that the church's leadership is softening up the members by making homosexual activity seem not the fault of the homosexual. They are playing on the basic nature of Christians to be understanding and charitable.

The husband sees this for the ruse that it is but the wife is still thinking the way the pastor wants her to think about it.

Where does it end? Are all these born that way? What matters is how they are now.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NASB)
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.