My Catholic Roots Struggle

[Zachm531]

Is asking people their favorite Bible verse really the best way to judge their knowledge of scripture? I don't have a favorite verse, but I do have a favorite chapter (1 Corinthians 13), in terms of what resonates with me and what I find personally inspiring. So would I fail that question because I don't have a pat answer (and I'm not going to sit there rattling off an entire chapter when you asked for one verse), or would I win because it takes more to recall an entire chapter than to recall one verse?

And what if the point of Biblical literacy is not in what any individual finds most personally inspiring or relevant in the first place? Or what if the person you are talking to is illiterate or speaks a different native language than you, and hence can't properly come up with an answer on their feet like that? Maybe that's not very likely in most western churches (though the RCC is largely composed of poor and uneducated people, if looked at on a world scale), but the point is there are lots of reasons why a person might not be able to answer a question like that which don't automatically mean that no scripture is taught in their church.

How many readings are done in the course of the average service at your current Baptist church, OP?

The entire service is readings from the Bible, put together to form a message or belief. And while all those circumstances are possible, they arent something i’ve experienced. And yes when people say they dont know a single verse of the Bible, that shows me their Biblical literacy is near to nothing. RCC should promote and read more out of the Bible imo

 

[Zachm531]

Is this thread really about some struggle you're having, or are you using it as an excuse to cast the RCC in the most negative light possible relative to whatever you're learning at your Protestant Bible college? Because it's starting to read like the latter.

My college is a weslyan college and actually very diverse has a lot of RCC in it. I am not Wesleyan. But yes it is about the struggle to find unity and the true universal catholic church. We should all be searching for that. Im laying out my problems with the RCC in hope to have them reconciled or explained. Or if neither can be done, find the true church if Christ. Maybe that wont happen till he returns. But my draw to RCC is in conflict with their teachings

 

[dzheremi]

The entire service is readings from the Bible, put together to form a message or belief. And while all those circumstances are possible, they arent something i’ve experienced. And yes when people say they dont know a single verse of the Bible, that shows me their Biblical literacy is near to nothing. RCC should promote and read more out of the Bible imo

Yes, that's why I asked how many specific readings are done in your current church. I don't remember off the top of my head how many are in the average RC Sunday service (3? 4? Someone here will know), but it's obviously more than zero, because here they are doing one, and it's pretty easy to find examples like this:

(First reading for a youth mass)

So it seems that the problem is in the follow-up to make sure that the people understand what they're reading and hearing and why, rather than that the RCC does not emphasize scripture in its services. It very obviously does. You can still disagree with it as a church of course (I do as well, albeit not with this reasoning), but at least disagree with it for what it is doing or not doing, not for what you are saying it is not doing but is actually doing.

If I said "People who go to Protestant Bible colleges don't study the scriptures", and you presented me with evidence from your schedule of classes or something else that showed that you do in fact study the scriptures, I shouldn't then continue to make that claim just because it seems that way to me or whatever.

With due respect, it seems like the objections to the RCC as voiced in this thread are not necessarily connected to what the RCC itself actually does, but rather to the poor quality of Biblical elucidation found among RC laypeople. I don't doubt that this is the case, but it also seems like one of those things that is probably highly variable. (I don't see how it couldn't be, given that the RCC is the largest single Christian church in the world.)

And given that Catholics are a distinct minority in the USA (something shy of 30%, though I don't remember the exact number), we can bet that these random people asked about the Bible at the Mall of America in Minnesota (2008 figures show 53% Protestant, 28% Catholic) are probably more likely to represent mostly Protestant responses (or at least the responses of people with Protestantism in their background, whether or not they're actually practicing; except for the Jewish kid...heh) than Catholic responses:

Do you think it's fair that these people stand in for all Protestants everywhere, and that Protestantism itself as a thing or Protestant churches themselves be judged accordingly?

 

[chevyontheriver]

Is this thread really about some struggle you're having, or are you using it as an excuse to cast the RCC in the most negative light possible relative to whatever you're learning at your Protestant Bible college? Because it's starting to read like the latter.

I agree. It's become a standard anti-Catholic screed. Whether that was the original intent is uncertain but arguable.

 

[chevyontheriver]

hymn, stand, repeat words, sit, eucharist, dont think about God until next sunday, repeat.

You said in your initial post that you had a 'strong pull' to return to THAT? What a caricature. If you believe that you don't even know what you rejected.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Yes, that's why I asked how many specific readings are done in your current church. I don't remember off the top of my head how many are in the average RC Sunday service (3? 4? Someone here will know), but it's obviously more than zero, because here they are doing one, and it's pretty easy to find examples like this:

Old Testament reading
Psalm
New Testament Reading
Gospel reading

Four every Sunday or feast day. On weekdays it shortens to three.

 

[chevyontheriver]

The entire service is readings from the Bible, put together to form a message or belief. And while all those circumstances are possible, they arent something i’ve experienced. And yes when people say they dont know a single verse of the Bible, that shows me their Biblical literacy is near to nothing. RCC should promote and read more out of the Bible imo

IMO you should sneak into a Catholic mass and listen to what they read from the Bible. Just saying. Otherwise you could find yourself perpetuating a view not quite in alignment with truth.

 

[Zachm531]

IMO you should sneak into a Catholic mass and listen to what they read from the Bible. Just saying. Otherwise you could find yourself perpetuating a view not quite in alignment with truth.

Within the year before getting saved i was attending RCC once or twice a month.

 

[Zachm531]

You said in your initial post that you had a 'strong pull' to return to THAT? What a caricature. If you believe that you don't even know what you rejected.

No I have a strong pull to be a part of the true Catholic church, not the RCS’s practices

 

[dzheremi]

Within the year before getting saved i was attending RCC once or twice a month.

So why are you perpetuating a caricature of it that is contradicted by what your former co-religionists have shown in this thread actually happens in RC masses (see post #46)? Shouldn't you know better?

 

[Albion]

But still their beliefs on faith+sacraments, the ones previously mentioned and a few others just bother me. But I still cant help but feel this pull to belong to the true catholic church, whatever that may be.

Zach, here's what keeps me a bit offbase when I think of how I might advise you. On the one hand, you want to be part of the authentic church of history, but that doesn't exist and never did exist except in the claims of the different communions. Leaving Protestantism aside, the Eastern Orthodox make a stronger argument to being connected to or a continuation of the first churches than does the Roman Catholic Church, and the Oriental Orthodox are arguably as old themselves. There are some smaller communions that would make a similar claim, too.

But if we leave that aside, you are 'put off' by some of the beliefs and practices of the Roman Catholic Church (and for good reason IMHO).

So if we try to look at the whole picture at once...are you willing to consider some other church that has most of what you find appealing in Roman Catholicism, other than for its claim to be the only true church, but also addresses some of your doctrinal concerns?

If you cannot get past the idea that the Church of Rome scooped Christian history until the 1500s, then I would think you would have to return to her and just push your doctrinal objections--reasonable as they are--into the background as millions of other Catholics do.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Within the year before getting saved i was attending RCC once or twice a month.

Then you should know that what you posted (hymn, stand, repeat words, sit, eucharist, dont think about God until next sunday, repeat) was a nasty and false caricature.

 

[chevyontheriver]

No I have a strong pull to be a part of the true Catholic church, not the RCS’s practices

My very first post to you gave you some advise. Do as you wish.

 

[Zachm531]

Zach, here's what keeps me a bit offbase when I think of how I might advise you. On the one hand, you want to be part of the authentic church of history, but that doesn't exist and never did exist except in the claims of the different communions. Leaving Protestantism aside, the Eastern Orthodox make a stronger argument to being connected to or a continuation of the first churches than does the Roman Catholic Church, and the Oriental Orthodox are arguably as old themselves. There are some smaller communions that would make a similar claim, too.

But if we leave that aside, you are 'put off' by some of the beliefs and practices of the Roman Catholic Church (and for good reason IMHO).

So if we try to look at the whole picture at once...are you willing to consider some other church that has most of what you find appealing in Roman Catholicism, other than for its claim to be the only true church, but also addresses some of your doctrinal concerns?

If you cannot get past the idea that the Church of Rome scooped Christian history until the 1500s, then I would think you would have to return to her and just push your doctrinal objections--reasonable as they are--into the background as millions of other Catholics do.

Im gunna visit a Lutheran Church tomorrow

 

[charsan]

My biggest problem with the RCC is the lack of scripture that is taught and the tolerance of lukewarmness within the church. Its truly sad and when evangelizing, most people say to me “yeah im catholic” or “i used to be catholic” my follow up question to that is: “whats your favorite verse of the bible?” And so far everyone ive asked has gone silent and then i say “do you know any Bible verses?” And they say “no” and its evident in their lives that they aren't following Christ but because people bare the title Catholic, they think that they are free to go and good to do whatever they want. I strongly urge the RCC to address this. I will not be returning to the RCC. I think I’d go to any and every denomination before going there again.

Never said you had to go to the Catholic Church. Catholics as well as most Liturgical Christians (such as myself) get more Scripture than any evangelical every will, plus we get it the right way not leaving a person to their own devices creating countless heresies that inhabit the evangelical world and that one can see easily on this very vast forum. I use to be a Catholic to but I do not hate them with the vitriol hatred that some evangelicals and fundamentalist display.

I can point you to man, many evangelicals whom have no idea about the Bible and don't live a Christian life, maybe we should insult and belittle the evangelical Church's too that's only fair until they address the issue.

 

[charsan]

My very first post to you gave you some advise. Do as you wish.

Seems as if the OP made up his mind long ago

 

[chevyontheriver]

I can point you to man, many evangelicals whom have no idea about the Bible and don't live a Christian life, maybe we should insult and belittle the evangelical Church's too that's only fair until they address the issue.

No. We should encourage everyone to do better. There is plenty enough of insulting and belittling in this thread already. We don't need insulting and belittling evangelicals.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Seems as if the OP made up his mind long ago

And that's OK. If this thread was supposed to be a vehicle to slam the Catholic Church, well this is Christian Forums afterall, where that's fair game in all but the Catholic forum OBOB.

 

[charsan]

No. We should encourage everyone to do better. There is plenty enough of insulting and belittling in this thread already. We don't need insulting and belittling evangelicals.

Of course it was a hypothetical given how the op acted in his reply to me.

 

[Albion]

Im gunna visit a Lutheran Church tomorrow

Certainly a logical choice. I hope you do get back to us with your impressions or whatever.