My Catholic Roots Struggle

[dzheremi]

It may be an emotional tie. Ask the Lord to cut it. Ask Him to open your eyes as to the truth. You may be oppressed by a religious demon. That's not uncommon for people with your background. Break Satan's hold over your life. It's a bit like an ex smoker missing cigarettes. Giving into the feeling is not the answer.

This kind of talk is not helpful at all. Being curious about the Roman Catholic Church for whatever reason is potentially being "oppressed by a religious demon"? Would you say the same if the OP had expressed interest in whatever non-denominational community you are a part of? Doubtful.

Either they will go to their local RCC or find some other way to connect with Catholics and have their interest and questions satisfied, or they will go and it will not be satisfied, or they will not go for whatever reason. Painting any of those choices as potentially demonic is really beyond the limits of helpful spiritual formation. I disagree with the Roman Catholic Church as much as or more than basically anyone here who is purposely not RC (my Church told Rome and the Greeks to take their tome and shove it 1,066 years before Martin Luther put his 95 theses up at the church in Wittenberg), but if there is demonic influence there (and I'm not dismissing the idea, as the devils are real and able to influence any people, so we must be vigilant), it is not in people who sincerely want to know what is going on there and where that church stands on theological and other matters, but in those who have hidden much evil that has become manifest in the worst ways due to a lack of transparency and more to the point a lack of metanoia on the part of those entrusted with authority in that Church (with all due respect to my RC friends; it's not you in particular, as no one here shuffles around priests and such).

But that is of course a different conversation to have, as you don't have to feel any kind of way about the RCC administratively or ecclesiologically to simply experience how it is there and decide after prayer and supplication as necessary if it is where you are truly meant to be. These aspects will certainly play a part in that decision (in the sense that ecclesiology is very closely tied to theology in the RCC in particular), but for the interested party who is just dipping a toe in for now it would not really be a good idea to lead with that, if only because it requires some background regarding the historical and political development of the see of Rome that is not in itself affecting the RCC's belief in the Holy Trinity, in the reality of the Eucharist, in the use of icons, etc. (things which the OP or anyone may have varying levels of trouble understanding, with regard to the RCC teaching on them).

 

[Zachm531]

It may be an emotional tie. Ask the Lord to cut it. Ask Him to open your eyes as to the truth. You may be oppressed by a religious demon. That's not uncommon for people with your background. Break Satan's hold over your life. It's a bit like an ex smoker missing cigarettes. Giving into the feeling is not the answer.

Yeah but i havent been a catholic in nearly 10 years(with atheism consuming most of that time)

 

[Zachm531]

This kind of talk is not helpful at all. Being curious about the Roman Catholic Church for whatever reason is potentially being "oppressed by a religious demon"? Would you say the same if the OP had expressed interest in whatever non-denominational community you are a part of? Doubtful.

Either they will go to their local RCC or find some other way to connect with Catholics and have their interest and questions satisfied, or they will go and it will not be satisfied, or they will not go for whatever reason. Painting any of those choices as potentially demonic is really beyond the limits of helpful spiritual formation. I disagree with the Roman Catholic Church as much as or more than basically anyone here who is purposely not RC (my Church told Rome and the Greeks to take their tome and shove it 1,066 years before Martin Luther put his 95 theses up at the church in Wittenberg), but if there is demonic influence there (and I'm not dismissing the idea, as the devils are real and able to influence any people, so we must be vigilant), it is not in people who sincerely want to know what is going on there and where that church stands on theological and other matters, but in those who have hidden much evil that has become manifest in the worst ways due to a lack of transparency and more to the point a lack of metanoia on the part of those entrusted with authority in that Church (with all due respect to my RC friends; it's not you in particular, as no one here shuffles around priests and such).

But that is of course a different conversation to have, as you don't have to feel any kind of way about the RCC administratively or ecclesiologically to simply experience how it is there and decide after prayer and supplication as necessary if it is where you are truly meant to be. These aspects will certainly play a part in that decision (in the sense that ecclesiology is very closely tied to theology in the RCC in particular), but for the interested party who is just dipping a toe in for now it would not really be a good idea to lead with that, if only because it requires some background regarding the historical and political development of the see of Rome that is not in itself affecting the RCC's belief in the Holy Trinity, in the reality of the Eucharist, in the use of icons, etc. (things which the OP or anyone may have varying levels of trouble understanding, with regard to the RCC teaching on them).

I do not see myself returning to a RCC just because of the extreme differences between their doctrine and what the Bible teaches

 

[dzheremi]

Okay. When I wrote go to I really just meant visit, not (re)join, but either way, it's up to you.

 

[Aussie Pete]

This kind of talk is not helpful at all. Being curious about the Roman Catholic Church for whatever reason is potentially being "oppressed by a religious demon"? Would you say the same if the OP had expressed interest in whatever non-denominational community you are a part of? Doubtful.

Either they will go to their local RCC or find some other way to connect with Catholics and have their interest and questions satisfied, or they will go and it will not be satisfied, or they will not go for whatever reason. Painting any of those choices as potentially demonic is really beyond the limits of helpful spiritual formation. I disagree with the Roman Catholic Church as much as or more than basically anyone here who is purposely not RC (my Church told Rome and the Greeks to take their tome and shove it 1,066 years before Martin Luther put his 95 theses up at the church in Wittenberg), but if there is demonic influence there (and I'm not dismissing the idea, as the devils are real and able to influence any people, so we must be vigilant), it is not in people who sincerely want to know what is going on there and where that church stands on theological and other matters, but in those who have hidden much evil that has become manifest in the worst ways due to a lack of transparency and more to the point a lack of metanoia on the part of those entrusted with authority in that Church (with all due respect to my RC friends; it's not you in particular, as no one here shuffles around priests and such).

But that is of course a different conversation to have, as you don't have to feel any kind of way about the RCC administratively or ecclesiologically to simply experience how it is there and decide after prayer and supplication as necessary if it is where you are truly meant to be. These aspects will certainly play a part in that decision (in the sense that ecclesiology is very closely tied to theology in the RCC in particular), but for the interested party who is just dipping a toe in for now it would not really be a good idea to lead with that, if only because it requires some background regarding the historical and political development of the see of Rome that is not in itself affecting the RCC's belief in the Holy Trinity, in the reality of the Eucharist, in the use of icons, etc. (things which the OP or anyone may have varying levels of trouble understanding, with regard to the RCC teaching on them).

This kind of talk is not helpful at all. Being curious about the Roman Catholic Church for whatever reason is potentially being "oppressed by a religious demon"? Would you say the same if the OP had expressed interest in whatever non-denominational community you are a part of? Doubtful.

Either they will go to their local RCC or find some other way to connect with Catholics and have their interest and questions satisfied, or they will go and it will not be satisfied, or they will not go for whatever reason. Painting any of those choices as potentially demonic is really beyond the limits of helpful spiritual formation. I disagree with the Roman Catholic Church as much as or more than basically anyone here who is purposely not RC (my Church told Rome and the Greeks to take their tome and shove it 1,066 years before Martin Luther put his 95 theses up at the church in Wittenberg), but if there is demonic influence there (and I'm not dismissing the idea, as the devils are real and able to influence any people, so we must be vigilant), it is not in people who sincerely want to know what is going on there and where that church stands on theological and other matters, but in those who have hidden much evil that has become manifest in the worst ways due to a lack of transparency and more to the point a lack of metanoia on the part of those entrusted with authority in that Church (with all due respect to my RC friends; it's not you in particular, as no one here shuffles around priests and such).

But that is of course a different conversation to have, as you don't have to feel any kind of way about the RCC administratively or ecclesiologically to simply experience how it is there and decide after prayer and supplication as necessary if it is where you are truly meant to be. These aspects will certainly play a part in that decision (in the sense that ecclesiology is very closely tied to theology in the RCC in particular), but for the interested party who is just dipping a toe in for now it would not really be a good idea to lead with that, if only because it requires some background regarding the historical and political development of the see of Rome that is not in itself affecting the RCC's belief in the Holy Trinity, in the reality of the Eucharist, in the use of icons, etc. (things which the OP or anyone may have varying levels of trouble understanding, with regard to the RCC teaching on them).

May I suggest that you read the OP. The issue is that the poster rejects the RC doctrines and practices but still feels drawn to them. That is not logical or reasonable and is indicative of a deeper, spiritual problem. I do know what I am talking about.

 

[Zachm531]

May I suggest that you read the OP. The issue is that the poster rejects the RC doctrines and practices but still feels drawn to them. That is not logical or reasonable and is indicative of a deeper, spiritual problem. I do know what I am talking about.

I dont know if id say there is a religious demon in me. Im indwelled with the Holy Spirit. My draw is to find the one true catholic church. Surprisingly, no one dares to take on the name catholic besides the RCC and independent Catholic churches that still follow in the RCC footsteps.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Yeah but i havent been a catholic in nearly 10 years(with atheism consuming most of that time)

For many here Catholicism is far worse than atheism.

 

[charsan]

I do not see myself returning to a RCC just because of the extreme differences between their doctrine and what the Bible teaches

Just don't fall for all the yahoo's here who hate the Catholic Church and by extension the words of Christ when He said "This is my Body" about the bread and "This is my blood" and the cup. The Bible does not contain everything like the evangelicals and fundamentalist want people to believe

 

[charsan]

For many here Catholicism is far worse than atheism.

and is behind every bush. Hatred shows through

 

[dzheremi]

Surprisingly, no one dares to take on the name catholic besides the RCC and independent Catholic churches that still follow in the RCC footsteps.

That is not true at all. All churches that hold to the Nicene Creed (the Orthodox Church, the Roman Catholic Church, some high church liturgical Protestants) affirm the existence of "one holy catholic and apostolic church", because that's what the Creed itself states. For all of them except the Roman Catholic and churches of that communion (Eastern Catholics), they most emphatically do not mean the Roman Catholic Church or communion. The Eastern Orthodox Church officially titles itself "The Orthodox Catholic Church", and even the Nestorians, who have been out of communion with every other church since the aftermath of the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD, officially call their Assyrian Church of the East the "Holy Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East" (ܥܕܬܐ ܩܕܝܫܬܐ ܘܫܠܝܚܝܬܐ ܩܬܘܠܝܩܝ ܕܡܕܢܚܐ ܕܐܬܘܪ̈ܝܐ ʿĒḏtā Qaddīštā wa-Šlīḥāytā Qāṯōlīqī ḏ-Maḏnḥā ḏ-ʾĀṯūrāyē).

In addition to this, this stance is affirmed in a great many prayers and hymns in these churches outside of the RCC orbit.

As an example, here is the litany of peace as prayed in the liturgy of St. Cyril in the Coptic Orthodox Church (out of communion with the Greco-Roman churches -- Rome and Constantinople -- since 451 AD):

Priest: We ask and entreat Your goodness, O Lover of mankind. Remember, O Lord, the peace of Your one, only, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

Deacon: Pray for the peace of the one, only, holy, catholic, and apostolic Orthodox Church, for God's salvation among the people, for stability in all places, that He may forgive us our sins.

People: Lord have mercy.

Priest: That which exists from one end of the world to the other. All peoples and all flocks, bless. The heavenly peace, send down into all our hearts. Even the peace of this life, graciously grant to us. The leader (king), the armies, the chiefs, the counselors, the multitudes, our neighbors, our coming in and our going out, adorn them with all peace. O King of peace, grant us Your peace; for You have given us all things. Acquire us to Yourself, O God our Savior, for we know none other but You. Your holy name we utter. May our souls live by Your Holy Spirit. And let not the death of sin have dominion over us, we Your servants, nor over all Your people.

People: Lord have mercy.

+++

As you can tell by the fact that the deacon's response adds the word "Orthodox" ("holy, catholic, and apostolic Orthodox Church"), we're really not talking about Rome here. We're talking about our Church. We are the Catholic Church, and always have been (obviously Rome and the other Chalcedonians feel differently about that, but that doesn't change our view or really even factor into anything, since they're not a part of the Church we're talking about).

 

[dzheremi]

May I suggest that you read the OP. The issue is that the poster rejects the RC doctrines and practices but still feels drawn to them. That is not logical or reasonable and is indicative of a deeper, spiritual problem.

I did read the OP and I'm not sure that that's your call (or anyone's) to make.

I do know what I am talking about.

Not that it will deter you, but I don't agree.

 

[Zachm531]

Just don't fall for all the yahoo's here who hate the Catholic Church and by extension the words of Christ when He said "This is my Body" about the bread and "This is my blood" and the cup. The Bible does not contain everything like the evangelicals and fundamentalist want people to believe

My biggest problem with the RCC is the lack of scripture that is taught and the tolerance of lukewarmness within the church. Its truly sad and when evangelizing, most people say to me “yeah im catholic” or “i used to be catholic” my follow up question to that is: “whats your favorite verse of the bible?” And so far everyone ive asked has gone silent and then i say “do you know any Bible verses?” And they say “no” and its evident in their lives that they arent following Christ but because people bare the title Catholic, they think that they are free to go and good to do whatever they want. I strongly urge the RCC to address this. I will not be returning to the RCC. I think I’d go to any and every denomination before going there again.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I dont know if id say there is a religious demon in me. Im indwelled with the Holy Spirit. My draw is to find the one true catholic church. Surprisingly, no one dares to take on the name catholic besides the RCC and independent Catholic churches that still follow in the RCC footsteps.

I'm not surprised no one takes on the title "Catholic". It means universal. It's been hijacked by Rome. Not so many born again Christians want to be known as Catholics. The church that you seek is the "BOC" - the Body of Christ. Everyone who is born again is a member. Denominations are an expression of immaturity, divisiveness, spiritual pride and straight out rebellion. I can promise you that there are no denominations in the Kingdom of God.

I long to see the day when people simply say that they are Christian, with no other label. "Isms" and "ists" are man's way, not God's. Psalm 133 tells us that God commands the blessing where there is unity. Guess why there is so little blessing on the church in these days.

Demons cannot possess a born again Christian. They can and do oppress believers. They can infect
the mind and lead thoughts in directions opposed to God's word. The next stage is to infect the will of the Christian, hindering him in good decisions and manipulating him into bad.

People say things like, "I don't know what made me do that" or, "What was I thinking?" It is possible that demons are the root cause. Robert Morris and James Robison expound on this in their "Living Free" seminars. It's well worth checking out.

Do you really know what the Church is - Christian Life Frankston

The above link is to an article that explains what the real church is. Also well worth reading.

 

[Aussie Pete]

My biggest problem with the RCC is the lack of scripture that is taught and the tolerance of lukewarmness within the church. Its truly sad and when evangelizing, most people say to me “yeah im catholic” or “i used to be catholic” my follow up question to that is: “whats your favorite verse of the bible?” And so far everyone ive asked has gone silent and then i say “do you know any Bible verses?” And they say “no” and its evident in their lives that they arent following Christ but because people bare the title Catholic, they think that they are free to go and good to do whatever they want. I strongly urge the RCC to address this. I will not be returning to the RCC. I think I’d go to any and every denomination before going there again.

I agree. We've been talking to a Catholic and her Bible knowledge is zero.

 

[chevyontheriver]

My biggest problem with the RCC is the lack of scripture that is taught and the tolerance of lukewarmness within the church. Its truly sad and when evangelizing, most people say to me “yeah im catholic” or “i used to be catholic” my follow up question to that is: “whats your favorite verse of the bible?” And so far everyone ive asked has gone silent and then i say “do you know any Bible verses?” And they say “no” and its evident in their lives that they arent following Christ but because people bare the title Catholic, they think that they are free to go and good to do whatever they want. I strongly urge the RCC to address this.

Have you asked the same questions of people who would say they used to be Protestant? You get the same sort of answers. Lots of non-practicing Protestants are ignorant of Christianity.

I will not be returning to the RCC. I think I’d go to any and every denomination before going there again.

It looks like you have agreed that it it is better to be even a heretic ('any and every denomination' - some of those are heretical) or an atheist (agreeing with my post above that it's better to be atheist) than to be Catholic. Why didn't your parents see to it that you grew up in the Catholic faith? My father worked hard to do that. I managed that for my children. And I have grandchildren who would have no problem answering your question about Bible verses.

 

[paul1149]

no one dares to take on the name catholic besides the RCC and independent Catholic churches that still follow in the RCC footsteps.

Universalism, small 'u', is understood differently among non-RC Christians. We don't look for a formal structure of unity. Consequently we have myriads of denominations, but by and large the differences among them are relatively minor, and their purpose is largely administrative. There is a problem because too often people make a big deal of minor things, leading to a spirit of disunity. But OTOH, I've heard Catholic converts say they were disappointed by the lack of true unity they found there as well. Unity is there in name, to be sure, but there are some huge differences going on under the hood.

I would say the church is fractured no matter what branch of the faith you're in. Even the Orthodox have their history of dissension, and you can see it playing out even now on a large scale in Ukraine. What I'm saying in this post is not to get too wrapped up in the unity argument, because there is more to it than meets the eye.

 

[gym_class_hero]

I was raised RC. There are too many practices in the faith that aren’t scripturally based for me to ever consider going back. I do believe there are Catholics that are born again but the average Catholic has very little knowledge of the Bible.

 

[dzheremi]

Is asking people their favorite Bible verse really the best way to judge their knowledge of scripture? I don't have a favorite verse, but I do have a favorite chapter (1 Corinthians 13), in terms of what resonates with me and what I find personally inspiring. So would I fail that question because I don't have a pat answer (and I'm not going to sit there rattling off an entire chapter when you asked for one verse), or would I win because it takes more to recall an entire chapter than to recall one verse?

And what if the point of Biblical literacy is not in what any individual finds most personally inspiring or relevant in the first place? Or what if the person you are talking to is illiterate or speaks a different native language than you, and hence can't properly come up with an answer on their feet like that? Maybe that's not very likely in most western churches (though the RCC is largely composed of poor and uneducated people, if looked at on a world scale), but the point is there are lots of reasons why a person might not be able to answer a question like that which don't automatically mean that no scripture is taught in their church.

How many readings are done in the course of the average service at your current Baptist church, OP?

 

[Zachm531]

Have you asked the same questions of people who would say they used to be Protestant? You get the same sort of answers. Lots of non-practicing Protestants are ignorant of Christianity.

It looks like you have agreed that it it is better to be even a heretic ('any and every denomination' - some of those are heretical) or an atheist (agreeing with my post above that it's better to be atheist) than to be Catholic. Why didn't your parents see to it that you grew up in the Catholic faith? My father worked hard to do that. I managed that for my children. And I have grandchildren who would have no problem answering your question about Bible verses.

Well no, most christian denominations all believe the same core beliefs. Organizations like Faith+works, JW, Mormon are not denominations, 2 are cults and 1 is Galatians 5:4 and athiesm is a guaranteed spot in the lake of fire. When I say denomination i am referring to groups that agree upon the core doctrines.
My mom is non practicing catholic/agnostic, my dad is budhist, my step mom is jewish. My grandparents are catholic. Thats why I was not raised RCC and im grateful that i wasnt. And i disagree, most ex protestant know what the Bible says generally where as most RCC(and all i’ve ever talked to) dont even know a single verse. That is great that you taught your kids scripture so that they may work out their own salvation with fear and trembling rather than: hymn, stand, repeat words, sit, eucharist, dont think about God until next sunday, repeat.

 

[dzheremi]

Is this thread really about some struggle you're having, or are you using it as an excuse to cast the RCC in the most negative light possible relative to whatever you're learning at your Protestant Bible college? Because it's starting to read like the latter.