My career and the abortion issue

[HoneyBee]

I am a young woman who is currently in college studying social work and currently, I am converting to Catholicism. It is time for me to do my interviews so I can get into my internship starting next semester, and my interviews are scheduled for next week. Before going into my interviews, however, I decided to meet with my academic advisor to talk about a struggle that was going on inside of me ever since I became pro-life.

I met with my academic advisor today and we sat down to talk about what was the matter. I was a bit scared to talk with her about it, but in a previous meeting we had, she had disclosed to me that she was a woman of faith herself, so I thought it might be alright for me to talk with her regarding this situation. I told her that I was concerned about possibly being made to refer people for abortive services during my internship, and her reaction kind of shocked me. It didn't surprise me too much, but it shocked me all the same. Basically, she furrowed her eyebrows at me and asked if I thought social work was right for me, to which I answered emphatically, "Yes, I know that this field is right for me." She then proceeded to ask me if I had read the social work code of ethics. For those who are unaware, these are the code of ethics: Code of Ethics: English

The ones that stood out to my academic advisor the most were the "Commitment to Clients" and the "Self-Determination" aspects of the code of ethics. She thinks that my not referring folks to abortive services when they are seeking it would be impeding on their rights and going against the code of ethics. There were then some other points brought up during our talk regarding these points, including:

• I probably wouldn't encounter someone asking me about abortive services during my internship anyways, given the settings I am working in.
• If they did, I would likely direct them to speak with a more qualified professional, such as their own doctor, on the matter.

Another thing that ended up coming up during our talk was the Bible and Jesus' teachings within it. My academic advisor asked me how Jesus treated people who had different beliefs from his own, and I answered, "He treated them with love and kindness. He also corrected them and didn't just let them continue to do whatever wrong thing that they were doing, but he did so in a way that did not impede on others' free-will. They were free to choose to listen or not." I then continued on to say that, if I were to be in a position where someone was asking for abortive services, I wouldn't be condemning them, discriminating against them, or telling them that they would "go to hell" if they had an abortion. That's not what Jesus would want, and I would never judge a woman who had an abortion. That isn't my job, and besides, I know that most women who get abortions do it because they feel trapped. It wouldn't be right of me to hate them or treat them unkindly, nor would I want to.

She also told me that sin is sin and it sounds inconsistent to her that I would not help someone who wanted an abortion, but not against someone who is gay or transgender, a satanist, etc. Again, I told her that I would not discriminate against someone who wanted an abortion, and I assured her that I would also not discriminate against someone who was gay, transgender, of a different religion, or even a murderer in my line of practice. I see everyone as having the right to do what they want with their own bodies and whatever they want in their own lives, so long as it does not impede on the rights of others. You want a tattoo? I don't care. You want to do something else I don't necessarily agree with? Fine. My problem is not with people doing things that are against the Bible (so long as it does not harm others). My problem is with others possibly forcing me to provide referrals to abortive services when it is considered a mortal sin within Catholicism. When you really think about it, wouldn't that impede on MY right to self-determination?

Anyways, there was more that we discussed within this conversation, but it's all floating around my head right now. In the end, though, my academic advisor informed me that, if I were to bring up this refusal to refer others to abortive services in my practice, I would likely be told that doesn't line up with the social work code of ethics and I would possibly not be accepted by either of the agencies that I was referred to for an internship. So, unless they ask about it in my interview, I won't bring it up. If they do end up asking, however, I will answer honestly, but follow it up by explaining myself like I had done today.

And before I ended my talk with her, I also explained to her that my morality had vastly changed from the time that I entered this major to now. This big change occurred within the past few months, and then it clicked in her head that my faith is still fresh and immature (that last word was not the word she used, but that is what she meant). She recommended that I speak with a Licensed Clinical Social Worker on campus who is a pastor and has dealt with many people who have beliefs that he does not agree with as a man of faith. She also said that I might want to talk to my church's priest so that I could get more insight into what might be right for me to do in this situation since I might not be educated enough in my faith right now or something (because, again, I'm still new to this). Personally, I think I'm fine when it comes to my moral beliefs right now, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to talk to either of them. So I'm going to try to organize a talk with both of them at separate times pretty soon.

When I left my academic advisor's office, I felt a little bit sad on the inside and wondered if I might cry. I didn't, though, and in the end, I thanked Jesus for giving me the strength today to talk to my advisor, the words with which to explain myself, and the courage to stand my ground even when I was challenged. I have a hard time standing my ground against someone of a higher authority, so this is pretty big for me. I just pray that, throughout my career, I continue to be strong and not let the world bully me into doing things that do not adhere to the teachings of God.

And that's the story of what's happening in my world right now. What are your thoughts?

 

[Sanoy]

If they turn your down because of your religious beliefs I believe that is grounds for religious discrimination.

As far as your faith, to me it does sound fresh... and it should stay that way.

 

[Nithavela]

If they turn your down because of your religious beliefs I believe that is grounds for religious discrimination.

Doesn't work that way when you willingly apply for a job and then refuse to follow that jobs parameters. If you can't fullfill the job because your religion prevents you from doing so, why did you take it in the first place?

 

[jacks]

It sounds to me like you will be a wonderful social worker. You are not forcing your beliefs on others and are open to referring clients to others if abortion is an issue. Also if your advisor is concerned about the Code of Ethics, perhaps she should check out Section 2:B. That addresses ethical responsibilities to colleagues.
"Social workers should avoid unwarranted negative criticism of colleagues in verbal, written, and electronic communications with clients or with other professionals. Unwarranted negative criticism may include demeaning comments that refer to colleagues' level of competence or to individuals' attributes such as race, ethnicity, national origin, color, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, age, marital status, political belief, religion, immigration status, and mental or physical ability."

I'm sure many wonderful counselors are pro-life. Stick with it. Praying for you.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

I am a young woman who is currently in college studying social work and currently, I am converting to Catholicism. It is time for me to do my interviews so I can get into my internship starting next semester, and my interviews are scheduled for next week. Before going into my interviews, however, I decided to meet with my academic advisor to talk about a struggle that was going on inside of me ever since I became pro-life.

I met with my academic advisor today and we sat down to talk about what was the matter. I was a bit scared to talk with her about it, but in a previous meeting we had, she had disclosed to me that she was a woman of faith herself, so I thought it might be alright for me to talk with her regarding this situation. I told her that I was concerned about possibly being made to refer people for abortive services during my internship, and her reaction kind of shocked me. It didn't surprise me too much, but it shocked me all the same. Basically, she furrowed her eyebrows at me and asked if I thought social work was right for me, to which I answered emphatically, "Yes, I know that this field is right for me." She then proceeded to ask me if I had read the social work code of ethics. For those who are unaware, these are the code of ethics: Code of Ethics: English

The ones that stood out to my academic advisor the most were the "Commitment to Clients" and the "Self-Determination" aspects of the code of ethics. She thinks that my not referring folks to abortive services when they are seeking it would be impeding on their rights and going against the code of ethics. There were then some other points brought up during our talk regarding these points, including:

• I probably wouldn't encounter someone asking me about abortive services during my internship anyways, given the settings I am working in.
• If they did, I would likely direct them to speak with a more qualified professional, such as their own doctor, on the matter.

Another thing that ended up coming up during our talk was the Bible and Jesus' teachings within it. My academic advisor asked me how Jesus treated people who had different beliefs from his own, and I answered, "He treated them with love and kindness. He also corrected them and didn't just let them continue to do whatever wrong thing that they were doing, but he did so in a way that did not impede on others' free-will. They were free to choose to listen or not." I then continued on to say that, if I were to be in a position where someone was asking for abortive services, I wouldn't be condemning them, discriminating against them, or telling them that they would "go to hell" if they had an abortion. That's not what Jesus would want, and I would never judge a woman who had an abortion. That isn't my job, and besides, I know that most women who get abortions do it because they feel trapped. It wouldn't be right of me to hate them or treat them unkindly, nor would I want to.

She also told me that sin is sin and it sounds inconsistent to her that I would not help someone who wanted an abortion, but not against someone who is gay or transgender, a satanist, etc. Again, I told her that I would not discriminate against someone who wanted an abortion, and I assured her that I would also not discriminate against someone who was gay, transgender, of a different religion, or even a murderer in my line of practice. I see everyone as having the right to do what they want with their own bodies and whatever they want in their own lives, so long as it does not impede on the rights of others. You want a tattoo? I don't care. You want to do something else I don't necessarily agree with? Fine. My problem is not with people doing things that are against the Bible (so long as it does not harm others). My problem is with others possibly forcing me to provide referrals to abortive services when it is considered a mortal sin within Catholicism. When you really think about it, wouldn't that impede on MY right to self-determination?

Anyways, there was more that we discussed within this conversation, but it's all floating around my head right now. In the end, though, my academic advisor informed me that, if I were to bring up this refusal to refer others to abortive services in my practice, I would likely be told that doesn't line up with the social work code of ethics and I would possibly not be accepted by either of the agencies that I was referred to for an internship. So, unless they ask about it in my interview, I won't bring it up. If they do end up asking, however, I will answer honestly, but follow it up by explaining myself like I had done today.

And before I ended my talk with her, I also explained to her that my morality had vastly changed from the time that I entered this major to now. This big change occurred within the past few months, and then it clicked in her head that my faith is still fresh and immature (that last word was not the word she used, but that is what she meant). She recommended that I speak with a Licensed Clinical Social Worker on campus who is a pastor and has dealt with many people who have beliefs that he does not agree with as a man of faith. She also said that I might want to talk to my church's priest so that I could get more insight into what might be right for me to do in this situation since I might not be educated enough in my faith right now or something (because, again, I'm still new to this). Personally, I think I'm fine when it comes to my moral beliefs right now, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to talk to either of them. So I'm going to try to organize a talk with both of them at separate times pretty soon.

When I left my academic advisor's office, I felt a little bit sad on the inside and wondered if I might cry. I didn't, though, and in the end, I thanked Jesus for giving me the strength today to talk to my advisor, the words with which to explain myself, and the courage to stand my ground even when I was challenged. I have a hard time standing my ground against someone of a higher authority, so this is pretty big for me. I just pray that, throughout my career, I continue to be strong and not let the world bully me into doing things that do not adhere to the teachings of God.

And that's the story of what's happening in my world right now. What are your thoughts?

Get a new advisor.

 

[JackRT]

Everyone I know is pro-life including those, like myself, who favour abortion remaining legal. I know of no-one who is pro-abortion. I understand the dilemma you face but, as long as abortion remains a legal medical procedure, you can advise against abortion and offer alternatives but, in the end you are obligated to give the referral if the client insists. As Christians we are frequently faced with such competing moral choices.

 

[God saves]

Do you know if you are allowed to tell the client that you do not agree with abortion in such a situation?

Personally I do am not opposed to a social worker discouraging an abortion since I view abortion as wrong, but if this situation comes up in the future, I would be careful when approaching the issue (for the sake of the client and their unborn baby but also to prevent you getting fired).

I would seek advice through prayer, from fellow Christians, and through God's word about this, especially if you think it is possible that this issue would come up during the internships.

I guess you could choose to work in a field of social work where this issue would not come up, however I think that it may be important for Christians to be involved in areas where such decisions may need to made.

In the end, I guess you can't really stop anyone from sinning, but to me the issue in such a situation is that there is an unborn baby involved. I believe it is better that one puts themselves at risk of getting fired because of their religious conviction that abortion is wrong than for one to promote killing a fetus.

 

[Sanoy]

Doesn't work that way when you willingly apply for a job and then refuse to follow that jobs parameters. If you can't fullfill the job because your religion prevents you from doing so, why did you take it in the first place?

Are you sure? The EEOC holds against religious discrimination against employees or applicants. And according to the talk the likelihood of this being a job parameter issue is low and expected to not be an issue at all. "I probably wouldn't encounter someone asking me about abortive services during my internship anyways, given the settings I am working in."

 

[Nithavela]

Are you sure?

Yes.

This thread reminds me of that one clerk who didn't approve issuing licenses for a gay marriage because of her faith and was suspended. Kim Davis, look her up.

As for the OP.. just do your duty when it comes up, and when you have finished your training, get a job where you don't have to worry about abortion.

 

[samwise gamgee]

I see everyone as having the right to do what they want with their own bodies and whatever they want in their own lives, so long as it does not impede on the rights of others.

A pregnant woman has another human being living inside her body. This child was created by God and she has a responsibility to take care of it.

The issue of abortion is much more serious than many people realize.

Molech

 

[Sketcher]

The ones that stood out to my academic advisor the most were the "Commitment to Clients" and the "Self-Determination" aspects of the code of ethics. She thinks that my not referring folks to abortive services when they are seeking it would be impeding on their rights and going against the code of ethics.

Let's read that:

1. Social Workers' Ethical Responsibilities to Clients
1.01 Commitment to Clients
Social workers' primary responsibility is to promote the well-being of clients. In general, clients' interests are primary. However, social workers' responsibility to the larger society or specific legal obligations may on limited occasions supersede the loyalty owed clients, and clients should be so advised. (Examples include when a social worker is required by law to report that a client has abused a child or has threatened to harm self or others.)

1.02 Self-Determination
Social workers respect and promote the right of clients to self-determination and assist clients in their efforts to identify and clarify their goals. Social workers may limit clients' right to self-determination when, in the social workers' professional judgment, clients' actions or potential actions pose a serious, foreseeable, and imminent risk to themselves or others.​

Did you speak with your advisor about how plans for an abortion pose a serious, foreseeable, and imminent risk to the woman and/or the baby?

If they did, I would likely direct them to speak with a more qualified professional, such as their own doctor, on the matter.

I suppose that you could say that sort of like:

"You would need to speak with a more qualified professional, I cannot recommend that for you."

Wouldn't you also be in a position to make alternative recommendations as well?

She also told me that sin is sin and it sounds inconsistent to her that I would not help someone who wanted an abortion, but not against someone who is gay or transgender, a satanist, etc. Again, I told her that I would not discriminate against someone who wanted an abortion, and I assured her that I would also not discriminate against someone who was gay, transgender, of a different religion, or even a murderer in my line of practice. I see everyone as having the right to do what they want with their own bodies and whatever they want in their own lives, so long as it does not impede on the rights of others. You want a tattoo? I don't care. You want to do something else I don't necessarily agree with? Fine. My problem is not with people doing things that are against the Bible (so long as it does not harm others). My problem is with others possibly forcing me to provide referrals to abortive services when it is considered a mortal sin within Catholicism. When you really think about it, wouldn't that impede on MY right to self-determination?

Furthermore, there is a big difference between helping a gay/transgender/satanist with a problem, and facilitating the killing of an innocent human life.

Anyways, there was more that we discussed within this conversation, but it's all floating around my head right now. In the end, though, my academic advisor informed me that, if I were to bring up this refusal to refer others to abortive services in my practice, I would likely be told that doesn't line up with the social work code of ethics and I would possibly not be accepted by either of the agencies that I was referred to for an internship. So, unless they ask about it in my interview, I won't bring it up. If they do end up asking, however, I will answer honestly, but follow it up by explaining myself like I had done today.

You also might consider the possibility of an internship with a Christian organization. Catholics seem to have many of them.

 

[Fantine]

I am a young woman who is currently in college studying social work and currently, I am converting to Catholicism. It is time for me to do my interviews so I can get into my internship starting next semester, and my interviews are scheduled for next week. Before going into my interviews, however, I decided to meet with my academic advisor to talk about a struggle that was going on inside of me ever since I became pro-life.

I don't think your religious beliefs would prevent you from getting an internship with a Catholic agency. That's what you should aim for. Hopefully they will offer you a position at the end of it.

 

[FireDragon76]

Counselors aren't supposed to impose their religious beliefs on their clients. It's really not your duty to set people straight in that area.

 

[samwise gamgee]

Counselors aren't supposed to impose their religious beliefs on their clients. It's really not your duty to set people straight in that area.

Christians are supposed to always speak the truth. In doing this they aren't imposing their own beliefs but promoting God's truth. Do you think it would be right for a Christian counselor to lie to a client in order to conform to the rules of the agency for which he is working?

 

[FireDragon76]

Christians are supposed to always speak the truth. In doing this they aren't imposing their own beliefs but promoting God's truth. Do you think it would be right for a Christian counselor to lie to a client in order to conform to the rules of the agency for which he is working?

If a Christian cannot comply with ethical guidelines for a profession, they have no business serving the public in that profession. Religion is not a green light to act in an unethical manner.

 

[samwise gamgee]

If a Christian cannot comply with ethical guidelines for a profession, they have no business serving the public in that profession. Religion is not a green light to act in an unethical manner.

Should they leave those who need the services of a profession to the mercy of those who reject God's laws? God is the one who ultimately decides what is ethical and what isn't.

 

[Petros2015]

I feel like there are still plenty of career opportunities in the social work arena that won't touch on the abortion issue. This organization I think was started by a Catholic priest in my area and has grown. There may be similar opportunities for you that have their roots in Catholic charities rather than secular government.

Leadership :: So Others Might Eat

 

[FireDragon76]

Should they leave those who need the services of a profession to the mercy of those who reject God's laws? God is the one who ultimately decides what is ethical and what isn't.

We don't live in a theocracy, thank God.

 

[God saves]

I don't think a social worker necessarily needs to tell their client that they are a Christian in order to discourage their client getting an abortion. Maybe in such a situation, you could also discuss the risks and long-term consequenses of getting an abortion?

What really disturbs me is that in such a situation, the fetus inside the pregnant woman is at risk of being killed, and if the woman's choices result in the murder of the fetus, that seems terribly unjust and far too high a price to pay. I personally don't believe that our actions (good and bad) do not affect others but the results of an abortion are grave. To me it is like if you would discourage a mother causing any intended or unintended harm to a 1 day old baby, why would you not discourage a mother trying to get the means for the murder of their unborn baby?

Even if a woman is adamant on getting an abortion, I believe it is entirely possible with God's help that she may change her mind. If a Christian social worker (or anyone) encourages abortion, to me that is the same as encouraging sin that has dire consequences for at least two people and puts at least one person's life at risk.

We could always seek God's guidance and pray for the people around us, including the unborn in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[samwise gamgee]

We don't live in a theocracy, thank God.

Actually we do live in a theocracy. A theocracy is a government ruled by God and God is the ruler of the entire universe. We may live in a country that doesn't acknowledge his rule but that fact doesn't exempt us from it.