My Canoe Challenge

[inquiring mind]

Also, the canoe example is taking materials which have actually existed for a long time and putting them into a new form, whereas the embedded age idea AV likes so much has God making new materials so that they look old.

What's the difference?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

What's the difference?

Because one is inherently deceptive. The other is making a canoe.

 

[Kylie]

What's the difference?

If a person takes a 1000 year old log and makes a canoe with it, then they are using materials that have actually existed for 1000 years. Any examination of the canoe is going to show the materials are 1000 years old, and the result will be accurate.

If God creates the world from materials that are brand spanking new and then makes it look older than it actually is, he is not using materials that have actually existed for a long time. Any examination of the world is going to show the world is very old, and that result will be INaccurate.

 

[AV1611VET]

But was it a canoe 500 years ago?

Negative.

 

[AV1611VET]

If a person takes a 1000 year old log and makes a canoe with it, then they are using materials that have actually existed for 1000 years. Any examination of the canoe is going to show the materials are 1000 years old, and the result will be accurate.

If God creates the world from materials that are brand spanking new and then makes it look older than it actually is, he is not using materials that have actually existed for a long time. Any examination of the world is going to show the world is very old, and that result will be INaccurate.

Correct.

Question: Can God create a dress tomorrow, so old it falls apart with age?

 

[Kylie]

Negative.

So if it was not a canoe 500 years ago, how can the canoe have an age of 1000 years?

 

[Kylie]

Correct.

Question: Can God create a dress tomorrow, so old it falls apart with age?

Only if he uses pre-existing materials that have actually existed for long enough to be falling apart, judging by the set up you created in your OP.

 

[SelfSim]

So if it was not a canoe 500 years ago, how can the canoe have an age of 1000 years?

By means of magical word salad?

 

[inquiring mind]

Because one is inherently deceptive. The other is making a canoe.

If a person takes a 1000 year old log and makes a canoe with it, then they are using materials that have actually existed for 1000 years. Any examination of the canoe is going to show the materials are 1000 years old, and the result will be accurate.

If God creates the world from materials that are brand spanking new and then makes it look older than it actually is, he is not using materials that have actually existed for a long time. Any examination of the world is going to show the world is very old, and that result will be INaccurate.

By means of magical word salad?

But we can see a real-time example of something made from new material that looks old… Progeria, known as Hutchinson-Gilford progeria syndrome (HGPS) or the “Benjamin Button” disease.

 

[SelfSim]

But we can see a real-time example of something made from new material that looks old… Progeria, known as Hutchinson-Gilford progeria syndrome (HGPS) or the “Benjamin Button” disease.

We already know appearances can be deceptive .. which is why dating of the Earth's trees and rocks, doesn't rely on what merely 'looks old'. Those techniques rule out this absurd delusion of 'young, but made to look old'. The results are not inaccurate in order to accomodate some silly belief.

 

[AV1611VET]

Only if he uses pre-existing materials that have actually existed for long enough to be falling apart, judging by the set up you created in your OP.

Serious question:

What makes a dress (or anything) fall apart with age?

 

[AV1611VET]

We already know appearances can be deceptive .. which is why dating of the Earth's trees and rocks, doesn't rely on what merely 'looks old'. Those techniques rule out this absurd delusion of 'young, but made to look old'. The results are not inaccurate in order to accomodate some silly belief.

Some things look old because they ARE OLD.

Like me.

But not everything GREW OLD.

Some things came into existence old.

Like Adam.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

But we can see a real-time example of something made from new material that looks old… Progeria, known as Hutchinson-Gilford progeria syndrome (HGPS) or the “Benjamin Button” disease.

But that's not the same thing at all. Making new material look old is one thing. I do it all the time when I'm building and painting models.
But full on creating the earth, the universe and everything in between to be new when everything on it and in it looks BILLIONS of years old is inherently deceptive.

Why would God even do that except to be deceptive?

 

[AV1611VET]

Why would God even do that except to be deceptive?

Let's just say a dress falls apart with age because the chemical bond between its atoms are weaker than when the dress was new.

I'm saying that God can create a dress tomorrow with "weak chemical bonds".

In essence, the dress would be old.

It didn't "grow old" -- it came into existence old.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Let's just say a dress falls apart with age because the chemical bond between its atoms are weaker than when the dress was new.

I'm saying that God can create a dress tomorrow with "weak chemical bonds".

In essence, the dress would be old.

It didn't "grow old" -- it came into existence old.

I like how you have to go with one of the most insipid examples that you can think of try and explain away a deceptive act.

Making the world look old when it has only been around for several thousand years is deception. There is no ifs, ands or buts about it.

 

[AV1611VET]

Making the world look old ...

That is not what He did.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

That is not what He did.

But according to you, He did.

 

[AV1611VET]

But according to you, He did.

Absolutely not.

I've clearly stated time and again that God did not make the world LOOK OLD, He made the world OLD.

There's a difference.

It LOOKS OLD because it IS OLD.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Absolutely not.

I've clearly stated time and again that God did not make the world LOOK OLD, He made the world OLD.

There's a difference.

It LOOKS OLD because it IS OLD.

Except that 6000 years old is a different sort of old to several billion years old. It's a completely different magnitude of age.

 

[AV1611VET]

Except that 6000 years old is a different sort of old to several billion years old. It's a completely different magnitude of age.

Six thousand, six billion, or six trillion, what's the difference if it is created that old tomorrow?

God can create a dress tomorrow in a stage of age that is so advanced, it will fall apart.