My brother-in-law's response

[Beanieboy]

When I read your first post, it struck me that most of the responses people were giving you were canned answers. They were theology built on theology built on scriptures, and no one was really being honest with you about their personal opinions, misgivings, or experiences.

You were seeing something wrong, but it was interpreted in such a black-and-white way, that they condescended and made you the wrong one. You were also seeing something curiously scientific and possibly supernatural, but they went into a panic and assumed it would endanger you.

People don't always take time to research the unknown; it's easier to just push it into a corner.

I have Christian friends who are nurses, who have taken this training as part of their jobs. They happen to be people who also believe in Jesus' charge for us to heal spontaneously, and were concerned that this training might lead them into a darker realm. But they concluded there was nothing religious or dangerous in that particular training.

Yes, there are groups that call upon spirits to heal. But you were talking about electromagnetism, which is simply part of God's design.

I think it is all God - that everything is God.

The laying on of hands, I imagine, is partially due to electromagnetics, but how are you going to explain that to people 2000 years ago?

However, I also believe that one may call on spirits. Most Christians get a bit uneasy about calling on spirits, putting them in the category of demons.

In studying a little bit of Shamanism, there are spirit guides all around us. The Peruvians, for example, use the spirit guides of plants to heal. One can say that it's coincidence, but though Ayahuasca, they often learn how to heal one another by the plants of the rain forest.

Is that God? Absolultely! They can't just drive to the hospital. They live in a jungle. So, the plant spirits guide them.

All life, and the life energy, is God. Decay and renewal is also God. It's when we start categorizing it as "Good" and "Evil" or "God vs. New Age" that we run into problems.

However, when we talk about healing the earth, do you simply think that disease is our biggest problem, or the healing of our souls? I suppose that is what I was referring to. There was a study where 4000 people came to Washington DC to meditate for peace. The police said that the only thing that would slow crime was 3 feet of snow. But during the 6 months, crime decreased by 25%.

So, when one mentions something like "Harmonic Convergence", and another who wishes for the world to heal simply rolls their eyes, as if we have no power through God to heal this planet, I wonder how much faith in God they truly have - how much power they believe that God has.

And even if nothing happens at all, it will change the person meditating and wishing for peace and kindness in this earth, and that is at least a start.

Gandhi said to be the change that you want to see in the world.

 

[heron]

Beanieboy, I've always thought someone should do solid research on the topic -- not to threaten beliefs, but to explore how science and faith converge. Some have even shown that e-m charges are measurable, coming from spirits. If I had incentives ($) to relegate this task to you, I would. Go for it!

 

[Beanieboy]

Beanieboy, I've always thought someone should do solid research on the topic -- not to threaten beliefs, but to explore how science and faith converge. Some have even shown that e-m charges are measurable, coming from spirits. If I had incentives ($) to relegate this task to you, I would. Go for it!

There is an interesting book, called DMT: The Spirit Molecule.
DMT can be found in plants, but are usually destroyed by the gut. Because a certain vine in the amazon is an MAOI supressor, it allows the DMT to interact with the body during Ayahuasca ceremonies.

The book discusses research that they did with DMT, which is found in the pineal gland, and which causes us to dream.
It suggests the location of the spirit may be here.

Another book, The Cosmic Serpent, suggests that these Ayahuascan dreams have shown people a twining of two snakes or vines, which clearly represents DNA, which is quite interesting.

Why am I going on about all of this? There's a point.

In Minneapolis, there was a woman that I met. She was a pharmacist who went into medicine for healing purposes, but soon became disillusioned. Month after Month people talked about how the medication wasn't helping, or that now that the new medication was helping, they needed another medication to deal with the side effects.

As fate would have it, she did a tour of the rain forest, and a year later, returned to study healing with plants with a shaman.
She soon learned that healing is as much of a spiritual thing as it is a physical thing. (This has been proven as well, showing that those who believe they have contol over their lives tend to outlive those that feel that they have none.) They have even done studies where they have cut off a rats whiskers and put him in water. A rat uses his whiskers for navigation, but unable to navigate, he drowned. When they did an autopsy, they found that the rats didn't drown from inhaling water, suggesting that they believed they were going to drown, and so they did.

After returning, the shamana/pharmacist found ways of incorporating natural holistic healing and spiritual healing with those of western medicine.

I believe very much in the power of prayer. Unfortunately, I believe the person praying is asking for healing as a favor, imploring God to have mercy, imploring a busy God to take time out to answer them. I believe that that power is already within us, and that we must simply will it upon the other person, and that God part of us can heal. Of course, that isn't going to make a person with cancer get up and start dancing the macarena, but it would be similar to what we see in nature, where a plant is nursed back to health.

I want to read more about the research done in What the Bleep Do We Know, where a Japanese man took water, blessed it, and it changed the molecules of the water. Even words of thank you seemed to change the water positively.

However, even as I watched, there was some part of me that said, "I knew it!" That is something that either rings true inside you, or does not.

So, when I (or you) win the lottery, I will be doing more research in the field. Until then, I think that one can simply think of good will while on the subway, passing others, and believe that healing is already taking place.

 

[heron]

they found that the rats didn't drown from inhaling water, suggesting that they believed they were going to drown, and so they did.

I heard a similar story of a man trapped in a freezer room, who assumed it was turned on. He died of hypothermia, but the freezer had been at room temperature the entire time. Not sure if the story was true.

I believe the person praying is asking for healing as a favor, imploring God to have mercy, imploring a busy God to take time out to answer them.

Many of the people who experience the answers to prayer are also quoting scriptures about healing with determination and regularity.... also worshiping in a meditative state. I know that many Christians would think I'm pushing the limits here, but I believe that God is the one who designed our bodies, and God is the one who gave us these instructions for a healing and life.

If He designed electromagnetic forces, He knew what they could do for us... if He designed the properties of plants, He also knows what ways they impact our physiology.

Jesus told his disciples to go out there and heal, because He wanted people's health to improve. He had compassion, and expressed very little legalism.

I'll admit that Christians seem to set more limits on it than Jesus did, associating healing with conversion, and requiring the title of miracle.
Jesus said, "'Daughter, take courage; your faith has made you well." At once the woman was made well.'

Mt 9:22, Mr 5:34, Lu 8:48

But I also believe that there is supernatural power involved in most spontaneous healings:

Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.

Mt 10:1


I do know there are dangers that accompany involvement with spirits, and understand why people panic -- spend a couple minutes in the deliverance forum.

If people around the world recognize that spirits have been approached for healing for centuries, then it is not such a stretch to see how a larger supernatural being would have the power and intent to heal. (A.k.a. God.)

Thanks for the book tip.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1] "I suggest that the individual's life-force enters the body through the pineal at 49 days after conception, and leaves it through the pineal gland at death. This 49-day prenatal period corresponds to the first signs of fetal pineal tissue[/SIZE][/FONT]"
... and more distinctive factors that determine one's personage. Hm.

http://www.rickstrassman.com/dmt/index.html

So, when I (or you) win the lottery, I will be doing more research in the field.
Until then, I think that one can simply think of good will while on the subway, passing others, and believe that healing is already taking place.

 

[Beanieboy]

I heard a similar story of a man trapped in a freezer room, who assumed it was turned on. He died of hypothermia, but the freezer had been at room temperature the entire time. Not sure if the story was true.

Many of the people who experience the answers to prayer are also quoting scriptures about healing with determination and regularity.... also worshiping in a meditative state. I know that many Christians would think I'm pushing the limits here, but I believe that God is the one who designed our bodies, and God is the one who gave us these instructions for a healing and life.

If He designed electromagnetic forces, He knew what they could do for us... if He designed the properties of plants, He also knows what ways they impact our physiology.

Jesus told his disciples to go out there and heal, because He wanted people's health to improve. He had compassion, and expressed very little legalism.

I'll admit that Christians seem to set more limits on it than Jesus did, associating healing with conversion, and requiring the title of miracle.
Jesus said, "'Daughter, take courage; your faith has made you well." At once the woman was made well.'

Mt 9:22, Mr 5:34, Lu 8:48

But I also believe that there is supernatural power involved in most spontaneous healings:

Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.

Mt 10:1


I do know there are dangers that accompany involvement with spirits, and understand why people panic -- spend a couple minutes in the deliverance forum.

If people around the world recognize that spirits have been approached for healing for centuries, then it is not such a stretch to see how a larger supernatural being would have the power and intent to heal. (A.k.a. God.)

Thanks for the book tip.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1] "I suggest that the individual's life-force enters the body through the pineal at 49 days after conception, and leaves it through the pineal gland at death. This 49-day prenatal period corresponds to the first signs of fetal pineal tissue[/SIZE][/FONT]"
... and more distinctive factors that determine one's personage. Hm.

http://www.rickstrassman.com/dmt/index.html

​

I would suggest Jungle Medicine (by the Shamana that I met), and the Cosmic Serpent first. It's a lot of food for thought.

I agree that it is a supernatural process of healing.

When it comes to the casting out of demons, I believe there is a very true spiritual world. However, I don't know if it is divided up into Angels vs. Demons.

From what I have seen, people give demons power. For example, when someone is christian, they may talk about this or that being evil, inviting demons, such as Ouija boards. Most people see them as manmade objects only believed in by those who are childish enough to. Ironically, those who believe in Jesus are often the ones the most afraid.

Of what I have read about Ayahuasca, which is quite fascinating, is that the shamans may sometimes choose to turn to the dark side, and shoot poisin "darts", invisible darts that are shot in the spiritual world, causing physical damage to the person it hits.

However, part of its effect relies on the person believing that it will work. Its as if you enable the person's power by your faith in it.

When The Exorcist came out, I recall interviews where one person said, "I don't know if I believe in God, but I know I believe in the devil, so I started going to church again."

I don't know enough about the healing of the spirit, but of those that I have talked to, they often talk about the healing properties of Aya in both phsical, emotional, and spiritual ways.

It would be interesting to see if science can measure the ability of spiritual healing, and its effect on the body.

 

[MikeMcK]

How are you responding to my statements by asking questions that are completely different

I'm asking questions based on the statements that you're making. Come on, surely, you've had a conversation before, haven't you?

1. Was Jesus unjust for not stoning the adultress?

That's not my understanding of God

But we're not talking about your understanding. We're talking about Jesus' teaching.

and I have searched, and continue searching, questioning everything I'm taught and bringing it to God in prayer.

And are you reading His word?

I must assume that you have read the Gospel. The Pharisees condemned Jesus, because he was healing on the Saabath, rather than resting. It's a law, after all. Jesus responded:
11 "If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? 12How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."

But it's a law!!! It's one of the 10 Commandments.
Does that mean that Jesus sinned on the Sabbath?
No. The laws are guidelines to help you, not weights to hold you down, so the idea that on Judgement Day, everything will be discussed since your birth to death, ie. "You had a job at at McDonald's and worked on the Sabbath, which is a sin..." is quite bizarre to me.

You're right in saying that He didn't sin, but not for the reason you think.

Yes, the Sabbath was a law under the Old Covenant. Jesus came to bring us a New Covenant.

The law isn't a "guideline to help us". It is the law.

You can't rob a bank and tell the judge, "but your honor, that whole 'no bank robbery law' isn't binding. It's just a guideline to help me".

The reason Jesus wasn't sinning by not observing the Sabbath is made clear in Colosians 2:16-23.
The reason is because He is the Sabbath.

You see, under the Old Covenant, the Sabbath was a foreshadowing of the rest that we have in Christ. Now that Christ has come, we have no more need of the foreshadowing because we now have the real thing.

If you believe that God punishes all sin, would the Christian, who believes in the bibles, and understands they should at least try to follow God's law as a sign of devotion to God, and because they know better since they believe, go to church, and read the bible, be more lenient to them when they say, "Yeah, well, you have to make a buck.

Christians are under no Biblical obligation to observe Sunday as a Sabbath day. In fact, the passage that I cited for you tells us just that, that we are not bound to observing any day over any other day.

2. Are my words and deeds pure? Sadly, no.

Why not?

If you think about doing something bad to someone, they might not even consider it a sin, because it isn't exactly like you did it.

But it isn't whether or not they consider it a sin that's the issue. Does God consider it a sin?

My experience as a Christian was that almost everyone I knew spent more time concerned about their actions (the "real" sins), and less time I addressing the source of the actions, thus unable to stop their flow, and in a lot of conflict.

But the source of the action is a sin nature. We're not sinners because we sin, we sin because we're sinners. Our natural tendency, our default setting, is to sin. It is to do what pleases the flesh, rather than what pleases God.

You can't over come that by willing yourself to stop or just trying to be a better person. You've got to be crucified with Christ and die to your sins, before you die in your sins.

...Initially, I thought that was the dumbest thing I've ever heard, but tried it nonetheless. After some practice, I noticed that my thoughts were no longer of how much I hated the person

Are you saying that you've hated someone?,

3. Do I think God will judge me innocent or guilty?
A Buddhist would say, "there is no way to prove that there is a God, so the point is mute. Why waste time on hypothetical questions?"

Why are you so afraid to answer this question?

However, let me answer from a Christian perspective, then my Buddhist perspective.

How about just being honest and telling me, if the God of the Bible is real and you stand before Him, as the Bible says you will, will He find you innocent or guilty?

From a Christian perspective, if we will say that there will be a Judgement Day, I believe that we will be judged on a number of criteria. How did we judge? (By the measure you judge, so will you be judged.) If you judge with mercy, so shall it be given.

The Bible tells us that we will be judged based on whether or not we kept God's laws. Have you kept God's laws?

Did you love your neighbor as yourself? That's the crux of what Christ taught.

That's not the crux of what Christ taught. It only appears in two verses.

Jesus said that He came to call sinners to repentance and went on to teach that man is sinful and in need of a savior, and that He is that Savior.

If you believe that Jesus was telling the truth when He said that His followers should love their neighbor, then why isn't He telling the truth when He says that no man comes to the Father but by Him?

As with the sheep and goats, if you claimed to love Jesus, then treated people with judgement, condemnation, showed no mercy, no humility, would not try to help those in need, this is how you have behaved to Christ, and that is what you will have to answer for - why you have thought yourself holier than Christ, rude to Christ, condemning of Christ, and merciless to Christ, and then answer what you thing you deserve as a reward for your behavior.

As I pointed out to you before, in this passage, Jesus is explaining the outward signs that will show whether or not someone is truly following Him, not that these things are a means to salvation.

You can't follow Jesus by simply saying that Jesus is your Person Lord And Savior (TM), and then living as if he isn't.

You're right. That's what's called a false convert. There are many of them. But that isn't what we're talking about.

At the same time, if someone is not a Christian, but is loving their neighbor as themselves, is showing kindness and mercy, is giving of their time, compassion, and self for the benefit of others, they have done so to Christ unknowingly.

And they are still enemies of God because of their sin, and still face God's wrath on judgement day.

I didn't find a God of harshness, but one of gentleness that wants us to succeed in loving each other, to become as we were created. We are given talents for each other, not for ourselves. I found that no one is good, and no one is bad. We are both. It's easy to think that a killer is a bad man, and dismiss that it is impossible that there is any good in him, but you must also forget that Saul killed many Christians, and was the writer of many a new testament book. It's easiest to point to another, as the Pharisees did, and say, "I go to church. I go to bible study. I'm so glad I'm not like THAT person."

But this "god" you found isn't the God of the Bible and he isn't a righteous or just god, whoever he is. Essentially, what you've done is to create a god in your own image, and the Bible tells us that that is a sin.

We have two wolves inside of us, one good, and one bad, and the one who wins is the one that we feed.

We have nothing good inside us. We're sinners who are in danger of, and who completely deserve, God's wrath.

It is only because of the great love of God for us that He condescended to become a man in order to pay the penalty that we, by repentance and faith in Christ, might be forgiven and reconciled to Him.

I also don't believe that man was created by a God that demands his adoration, that we must toil for, worship, and avoid his wrath, and hope for a reward at the end of the day.

You've said several things about what you believe Jesus taught. How do you know He taught these things?

So, will I be found guilty or innocent?
You tell me, according to Christianity.

You've already admitted that you've hated people. Jesus says in Matthew 5 that if you've hated someone, then you've already committed murder in your heart and will face God's judgement for that.

Then, we see that you've supplanted God with your own god and that breaks two of the ten commandments, blasphemy and idolatry.

So, given that the Bible says that you'll stand before God a murderer and a blasphemer, do you believe that God will judge you to be guilty or innocent?

Will God know me? If I have a relationship with God, if I have regular conversations with him, as I did since I was 4 or 5, will he damn me to eternal suffering on a legality?

The Bible says that we're judged by the law and that is sin. It goes on to say that God judges those who die in their sins and they do go to Hell.

Do you believe that God sits up in heaven somewhere, micromanaging everyone's life, and making tick marks anytime we do anything wrong? Do you believe that God sits in total judgement of our every move?

That's what the Bible says. That's what Jesus taught.

However, it will not be you. And as much as I sometimes seek God to confirm that he is above, looking down in harsh judgement from grave sins to the pettiest to confirm what I was taught, the God of Fire and Brimstone who's wrath we live to avoid, I simply can't find that being.

That's because you're not reading His word.

I find the antithesis, one who judges me with more mercy than I judge myself, who offers compassion, comfort and mercy from our hardest judges, ourselves.

The Bible tells us that God is both righteous and just.

If He is righteous, then His righteousness demands that He have a moral code (the law).

If He is just, then His justice demands that He punish those who violate that moral code.

Either Christ's sacrifice undid the devil's work, or it did not.

Christ made a way for us to be saved. He did not, however, undo our free will. He still tells us that we must repent and put our faith in Him.

Either Jesus is my Saviour, or he is not. If he died for my sins, he is my saviour, but if I must accept him, and he is not, then he didn't die for my sins. It must be one or the other.

It doesn't sound as though you've repented and put your faith in Christ, so I don't believe that you can honestly say that He is your savior.

Zimmer believes, and with good biblical support, that Jesus' death died for the sins of all

Jesus Christ died for all men. All men, however, will not live for Jesus Christ.

and that all will be drawn back to God.

And that is contradictory to what Jesus taught.

That seems far more loving, far more just.

If it is justice, then where is the payment for sin?

It's because it lacks love and mercy. The very idea is not one of love. The "judgement" is far more based on law than love

That's right. Jesus taught that we will be judged by the law.

God isn't about Judgement

Then you haven't read the teachings of Jesus lately. Jesus tells us very plainly that He is the Judge and will judge the world

and in my opinion, to reduce him down to a judge and jury of Judgement Day is a true blasphemy.

If this is true, then the Bible is not to be trusted, since it very clearly tells us that God is our judge and each one of us will stand before Him on judgement day.

If that's the case, then what is the basis for your claims about what Jesus taught?

Why do you believe that one of Jesus' teachings is true, but not the other?

 

[Beanieboy]

We have nothing good inside us. We're sinners who are in danger of, and who completely deserve, God's wrath.

Well, at least you've answered my question - that yes, you, a creature of God made in his own image has nothing good inside himself, and in agreement with my brother-in-law.

 

[Beanieboy]

I'm asking questions based on the statements that you're making. Come on, surely, you've had a conversation before, haven't you?

Not one that's so all over the place like this one, no.

But we're not talking about your understanding. We're talking about Jesus' teaching.

Why is it, then, that there are so many different denominations that disagree on "Jesus' teachings"?

It's because man disagrees on what Jesus and the bible are saying. It's man's interpretation of the bible, and seeing that it's been translated from ancient Greek and Hebrew, even theologians disagree.

And are you reading His word?

what part of Buddhist don't you understand?

You're right in saying that He didn't sin, but not for the reason you think.

Yes, the Sabbath was a law under the Old Covenant. Jesus came to bring us a New Covenant.

The law isn't a "guideline to help us". It is the law.

Unless it's the Old Covenant (One of the 10 Commandments, I might add), and then they aren't even followed?

 

[Beanieboy]

My quote: Did you love your neighbor as yourself? That is the crux of what Christ taught.
Your reponse: It is not the crux. It's only in two verses.

Yes, it is in two verses.
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Now, seeing that he said that these were the two commandments, and you claim to love Jesus, how can you say that it is only two verses (despite examples of the Good Samaritan, the call to love your enemies, etc.) when he has said that these two laws are which all other laws hang upon?

How can you discount it as saying "it's only in two verses"?

 

[Beanieboy]

You can't over come that by willing yourself to stop or just trying to be a better person. You've got to be crucified with Christ and die to your sins, before you die in your sins.

Perhaps people do it without realizing it. I don't know, it's just that Christians don't have a monopoly on overcoming their sins or having a change of heart.

Are you saying that you've hated someone?,

Yes, of course. Are you suggesting you never have, or are incapable of it, because you are a Christian?

Why are you so afraid to answer this question?

I'm not afraid. I just find it pointless.
Do you believe that Shiva is going to cut your head off on Judgement Day for not obeying him? Do you, as a Christian, think it's worth your time to even consider?

Do I, according to the Bible, believe that I would be judged innocent or guilty?
I suppose I would have to look at what Christ told his followers.

He told them about a man who was beaten, and was passed over by a rabbi and a levite, holy men. However, a Samaritan, a people who were considered very lowly sinners, offered to help him and clean him. It was the Samaritan who loved his neighbor.

One has to be "born again." I was christian once. I was baptised in water, and baptised in the Holy Spirit in speak in tongues.

However, I can't say that I believe in Jesus, that I believe in a God that requires death for us to live, that we are only sinners, that we must spend our lives trying to escape the wrath of some angry ogre of a God.

So, if that's who is at the end of the light, I'll throw myself in hell, because I don't want to live 5 mintues with a being that demands my love, my devotion under the threat of hell.

But I simply don't believe in that Ogre God. God is nothing like that. It is the God that man has made in his own image, man who will claim to follow the bible in burning a witch, or keeping slaves. It is this God made in man's image that I will not bow down to.

How about just being honest and telling me, if the God of the Bible is real and you stand before Him, as the Bible says you will, will He find you innocent or guilty?

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Do you still sin?

 

[Beanieboy]

Q
Do you believe that God sits up in heaven somewhere, micromanaging everyone's life, and making tick marks anytime we do anything wrong? Do you believe that God sits in total judgement of our every move?
A:
That's what the Bible says. That's what Jesus taught.

That's what the Bible says? That God sits "up there" somewhere, simply tallying our sins, so that we move in fear of angering the cloud God? Really? And you follow this religion why????

 

[Beanieboy]

Then you haven't read the teachings of Jesus lately. Jesus tells us very plainly that He is the Judge and will judge the world

that's true, being a Buddhist and all. I assume that you are reading the Dharma everynight?

Why do you believe that one of Jesus' teachings is true, but not the other?

I don't believe that they are all Jesus' teachings.
It was written by man, and man is fallible.

I can't, in honesty, believe that God dictated the Bible to several people, word for word.
I believe that much of it was influenced by man, the times, and the ideas of God.

The OT God is much different than the Jesus of the NT.
OT God was wiping out populations of nonbelievers, while the NT Jesus was showing mercy, and coming to help them.

I have listened to Christians quote the bible, telling me that they would bathe in my blood, the blood of the wicked, on Judgement Day.
Is that something Jesus would say when he was on earth?

Another gave a reason to hate me: Let you love be sincere. Cling to what is good, abhor what is evil.
I was evil, and therefore, and enemy to God, so she was vindicated.

However, I continued with Romans 12:Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality.

Does that sound like a call to hate? A reason to hate?
Even if I am an enemy of God, it continues:

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.[c] Do not be conceited.

17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"[d]says the Lord. 20On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."[e] 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

It's a call to love your enemies.

When I confronted her on this, she said, "How dare you use the bible!"

She claims to believe it, yet uses the bible to justify hatred and, one could argue, her hardened heart and sin, yet won't listen when quoted to her.
And wouldn't listen to Buddhist texts, so I left it at that.

I question everything. If it is true, it should stand up to the scrutiny, and a lot of what I have found in the Bible doesn't. Therefore, I take it with a grain of salt.

A lot of Buddhist teachings and the teachings of Christ are in harmony, and if it is ringing true in one religion, and then in the other, it is usually ringing true in my heart. It's that which I follow.

 

[Beanieboy]

But this "god" you found isn't the God of the Bible and he isn't a righteous or just god, whoever he is. Essentially, what you've done is to create a god in your own image, and the Bible tells us that that is a sin.

You have the right to believe what you wish.

 

[Beanieboy]

What about justice? Forgiveness is wonderful and God says that He does forgive those who repent and put their faith in Christ but the problem is that forgiveness simply for the sake of forgiveness, at the expense of punishment of wrongdoing isn't forgiveness at all, it's just sweeping the wrongdoing under the rug.

Let's say that a serial rapist is arrested and brought before a judge. He's found guilty on all counts but, at sentencing, the judge says "you've been found guilty on all counts but, just to show you what a great guy I am, I'm going to forgive you. You're free to go."

Would you say that that judge is a just judge? Of course you wouldn't. .

Let's say that the rapist raped your daughter.
Because of evidence, whatever, he is in jail for 5 years.
In jail, he asks Jesus for forgiveness, and becomes a Christian.

It effects your daughter's entire life, effects you, but the "payment" of his eternal judgement is Jesus on the cross.

And that you think is just?
Will you feel that justice has been done?
Isn't asking Jesus for forgiveness similar to "sweeping wrongdoings under the rug" as you put it, since it won't be brought up on judgement day?

 

[BelindaP]

There are many people who believe that any 'supernatural' phenomenon that doesn't explicitly come from God must be demonic in origin. Thus, they would be extremely concerned for the salvation of anyone who might get involved in such a thing. This, of course, is untrue. EM abilities are considered supernatural just because they are not understood. Thus, they don't fall under the mantle of good or evil. They can be used for either.

Your brother-in-law was also mistaken about everything inside himself being evil. We are the temple of God, and He would not inhabit a purely evil domicile. That said, we all have a sin nature that we inherited from Adam because of his sin. That makes up prone to commit all manner of evil acts.

However, when we become Christian, God shares his Holy Spirit with us, which gives us the capability of overcoming this sin nature. In fact, we would never have to sin again, if we relied on God in everything. Unfortunately, we are fallible humans and give in to the sin nature all the time.

Paul spoke of the spiritual warfare within us. Our free will and the grace of God will govern how it ends for each of us. However, we are not purely evil. Neither are we purely good, since we are a fallen species. We hope and pray for the time that God can look upon mankind and again say "It is good."

 

[BelindaP]

If this said rapist has given his life over to Christ, then he is a changed man. He would no longer be the man who raped somebody, but a forgiven sinner like the rest of us. If he is reformed enough to make it to heaven, I would not stand in his way. I have my own sins to be concerned about.

 

[MikeMcK]

Why is it, then, that there are so many different denominations that disagree on "Jesus' teachings"?

There aren't. Christianity has different denominations, but they're all united on the essential doctrines of Christianity.

what part of Buddhist don't you understand?

There's no need to be rude. I understand that you claim to be a Buddhist. However, I also understand that you claim to be seeking God, so it's only fair to ask, if you're seeking God, why you're not reading His word.

Unless it's the Old Covenant (One of the 10 Commandments, I might add), and then they aren't even followed?

The Old Covenant dictates how God related to His children at one point in time. It does not mean that the law is no longer in effect. Jesus said that He didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.

How can you discount it as saying "it's only in two verses"?

I didn't say that to discount it. I pointed it out to put it into perspective of the whole of scripture, rather than your isolating two verses at the expense of the rest of Jesus' teaching.

Yes, of course. Are you suggesting you never have, or are incapable of it, because you are a Christian?

I've broken all of the commandments. That's why I need a Savior.

My point wasn't that I'm better than you, but trying to illustrate to you how your sin has made you an enemy of God, even though you don't believe you've done anything wrong.

One has to be "born again." I was christian once. I was baptised in water, and baptised in the Holy Spirit in speak in tongues.

I see. So then, what signs are you showing that you were born again?

However, I can't say that I believe in Jesus

Then you're not born again.

So, if that's who is at the end of the light, I'll throw myself in hell, because I don't want to live 5 mintues with a being that demands my love, my devotion under the threat of hell.

Then you've misunderstood what the Bible teaches about Hell and you're not listening to what I'm trying to tell you.

We don't go to Hell because God demands our love. We go to Hell because we have broken God's laws and God must punish sinners.

I don't believe that they are all Jesus' teachings.
It was written by man, and man is fallible.

You seem to believe that they're Jesus' teachings when they agree with your ideology, and they're not Jesus' teachings when they don't.

I can't, in honesty, believe that God dictated the Bible to several people, word for word.

Nor should you. That isn't what the Bible teaches.

The OT God is much different than the Jesus of the NT. OT God was wiping out populations of nonbelievers, while the NT Jesus was showing mercy, and coming to help them.

This is a very common misconception. God showed mercy, as well as judgement, in the OT, just as God shows judgement, as well as mercy, in the NT.

Read the Psalms sometime to see how great God's mercy was to His children in the OT. Read the accounts of God's judgement in the NT to see how terrible His wrath will be.

I have listened to Christians quote the bible, telling me that they would bathe in my blood, the blood of the wicked, on Judgement Day.
Is that something Jesus would say when he was on earth?

I can't imagine where they would get such an idea. The Bible doesn't say anything even remotely like that.

A lot of Buddhist teachings and the teachings of Christ are in harmony, and if it is ringing true in one religion, and then in the other, it is usually ringing true in my heart. It's that which I follow.

Does Buddhism teach that man is sinful and will stand before a Holy and Righteous God on judgement day? Does it teach that we're enemies of God, children of wrath, because of our sins? Does it teach that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that no man comes to the Father but by Him?

You have the right to believe what you wish.

It isn't simply what I wish to believe. It is what Jesus taught.

I don't really see anything productive coming out of this discussion and it's clear that you're not receptive to God's word, or even willing to listen to anything we have to say, so this will probably be my last post to you.

In parting, I would strongly encourage you not to go another day without repenting and putting your faith in Christ, so that you might be forgiven of your sins and reconciled to God.

 

[tapero]

Q
Do you believe that God sits up in heaven somewhere, micromanaging everyone's life, and making tick marks anytime we do anything wrong? Do you believe that God sits in total judgement of our every move?
A:
That's what the Bible says. That's what Jesus taught.

That's what the Bible says? That God sits "up there" somewhere, simply tallying our sins, so that we move in fear of angering the cloud God? Really? And you follow this religion why????

I'm glad you posted this for now we can see that you haven't paid close attention to what the bible says. I'm sorry if in other posts you've said you know the bible, I haven't seen those posts, but clearly if you have, you are misunderstanding.

God doesn't sit up there and count our sins. I've never read that anywhere in the bible.

However, for those who do not come to Christ, in the end, their sin of disbelief is what sends them to hell. That's regarding your second portion I highlighted in blue.

On your first portion highlited in blue above, God does not micromanage us in any way. We have complete free will, and are even freeer in Christ than before Christ.

There is now no longer condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.. So no, he doesn't judge our every move.

Though it is written that the Father is on the throne, and Jesus to His right hand side, God is Spirit, not confined as you are seeing it.

I am in no fear of angering God. I am indwelled with the Holy Spirit. There is no need to fear God.

However, some who do not believe do fear God, not all though. And some believers also fear God, but as they grow in Him they will see there is no need to as a Christian.

 

[BelindaP]

The Bible is very clear on this. The one who tallies our every move is Satan. He will be the one accusing us before God at the judgment. If we believe in Christ, then Jesus has only to utter three words and God remembers nothing of our past sins. Those words--It is Finished.

 

[Beanieboy]

There are many people who believe that any 'supernatural' phenomenon that doesn't explicitly come from God must be demonic in origin. Thus, they would be extremely concerned for the salvation of anyone who might get involved in such a thing. This, of course, is untrue. EM abilities are considered supernatural just because they are not understood. Thus, they don't fall under the mantle of good or evil. They can be used for either.

Your brother-in-law was also mistaken about everything inside himself being evil. We are the temple of God, and He would not inhabit a purely evil domicile. That said, we all have a sin nature that we inherited from Adam because of his sin. That makes up prone to commit all manner of evil acts.

However, when we become Christian, God shares his Holy Spirit with us, which gives us the capability of overcoming this sin nature. In fact, we would never have to sin again, if we relied on God in everything. Unfortunately, we are fallible humans and give in to the sin nature all the time.

Paul spoke of the spiritual warfare within us. Our free will and the grace of God will govern how it ends for each of us. However, we are not purely evil. Neither are we purely good, since we are a fallen species. We hope and pray for the time that God can look upon mankind and again say "It is good."

I have to agree, but I have also seen this through people who are Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist. I've even seen people that change that don't believe in a diety, so how would you explain that? Do you think that God can come through a different religion?