hiya peoples. heres the story: i was christian as a child, (or at least thought i was), but turned away from god in my early teens. i spent the next 10-15 years as a devout atheist. somewhere in my early 30's i realized that i had become a bigger hypocrite than the christians that i was so antagonistic towards, and started calling myself agnostic. granted, its not that i think man cannot know god; its more of a "i do not know god" type of thing. anyhow, over the past few months ive found myself revisiting my spirituality. ive realized that my "superior intellect" isnt as superior as i had once thought. ive been stuck in a pit of existential angst for the past two decades. ive also realized that i cant do this alone. i see the peace of mind that true christians have, and that gives me hope. here's the part where i run into the wall: i really want to believe and have faith again, but i immediately question or doubt myself and or my motives when i try. ive been told, "act as if you have faith and it will come". that doesnt seem to be cutting the mustard for me though. i remember reading in matthew somewhere, "not everyone that says lord, lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven",and that worries me. part of me says that im just worried about my mortality, and that im only doing this to cover my backside from damnation. i picture judgement day and jesus laughing at me saying, "you've got to be kidding me, right?". now that just scares the living hoo hoo out of me. how do i get past 25 years of self "deprogramming" and find saving faith? i know im in the non christian forums, which leaves me open to idiot flame posts, but any real advice would be appreciated. =)
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
my brain gets in the way
- Thread starter strayed
- Start date
- Status
Davis
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2005
- 1,695
- 64
- 45
- Faith
- Methodist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Boy that is a tough road. I was in the same road from about 13 years old to about 22 years old. I was as hard-headed as they came. But like you....I reknewed interest in my past faith and wanted to learn more. And learn more I did. Everything that I questioned before was looking really dumb on my part in the past. I started to except the things that I could not change. Little by little my hard headedness went away as I was reading the bible and attending church. Then it hit me one day of how lost I was and how wrong I was in the past. Even looking at my faith today, its grown over the past few years and I know a lot more than I did two years ago. But the cool thing is that I still have a long way to go and that I will never be perfect. I have done some horrible things in my life and there still is that voice that says that I will never be good enough. But through Gods grace I don't have to be good enough. I just have to except Jesus as my Lord and Savior and trust in Him. Keep searching........trust me, your doubts will slowly disappear. The mind is a huge barrier. Little by little God will break down that barrier. Trust in Him.
Upvote
0
Remember that Jesus accepted the thief at the cross beside him, the prostitute, and a guy so posessed that people were afraid of him. Then He later appeared to Saul (Paul), who had been persecuting Christians--and assigned him strategic responsibility! Just remind yourself that if God can forgive mass murderers, surely He can start fresh with you.
It always feels dishonest if we just try to conjure up faith or fake it. God knows your heart, and will work with small amounts of interest. There's a verse that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ (Romans 10:17).
It helps to read about what God's plans are, how He views you, and let that absorb into your system. Imagine joining a country club--you have lunch with a few members, read the member rules, and wear the collared shirts before you really feel like you belong. That was a terrible analogy...don't read too much into that!! It's not a club, and it's not about rules or peer acceptance.
"Not everyone that says lord, lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven" --that probably pertains more to the reason you spoke against the church than where you stand now. (That's where I can use the club analogy... just because you're on the grounds doesn't mean you can golf.) Jesus knew there were hypocrites, people who acted spiritual to gain respect or power. Don't worry about that--you can just remember it to keep you on your toes. There are plenty of verses to confirm that if we accept forgiveness offered us through Jesus' sacrifice, that we will be saved.
It sounds like you are taking a wonderfully honest, humble stance. I hope the pursuit goes well for you!
It always feels dishonest if we just try to conjure up faith or fake it. God knows your heart, and will work with small amounts of interest. There's a verse that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ (Romans 10:17).
It helps to read about what God's plans are, how He views you, and let that absorb into your system. Imagine joining a country club--you have lunch with a few members, read the member rules, and wear the collared shirts before you really feel like you belong. That was a terrible analogy...don't read too much into that!! It's not a club, and it's not about rules or peer acceptance.
"Not everyone that says lord, lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven" --that probably pertains more to the reason you spoke against the church than where you stand now. (That's where I can use the club analogy... just because you're on the grounds doesn't mean you can golf.) Jesus knew there were hypocrites, people who acted spiritual to gain respect or power. Don't worry about that--you can just remember it to keep you on your toes. There are plenty of verses to confirm that if we accept forgiveness offered us through Jesus' sacrifice, that we will be saved.
It sounds like you are taking a wonderfully honest, humble stance. I hope the pursuit goes well for you!
Upvote
0
A
Anti Existance
Guest
Its easy, you need to give yourself a chance. Actually i got just the thing for you.
http://www.aleroy.com/Abetway.htm
Enjoy =)
http://www.aleroy.com/Abetway.htm
Enjoy =)
Upvote
0
thanks folks. i am trying. ive been reading the bible lately. i figured it would be better to stick with the new testament for the time being. i find it to be a little less intimidating. its weird; it inspires and disturbs me at the same time. definately very humbling. its really made me take inventory and realize what a petty and bitter individual ive become. i can understand what you are saying in regards to it taking some time for it to feel more natural. i just cant help but feel like a total poseur in the meantime. ive thought about attending church, but im reluctant in fear of picking the wrong one, and running into the type of people that would make me want to run out of there screaming and pulling my hair out. i realize thats not a trusting way to look at things, but i'd really rather move forward than backwards, if that makes any sense. actually, thats why i ended up in these forums in the first place. it seems to be a safer environment during my spiritually formative time of transition. =)
Upvote
0
Davis
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2005
- 1,695
- 64
- 45
- Faith
- Methodist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Just go into each church with an open mind. Don't like what you hear, move onto the next one. But do keep in mind that a good church will be blunt and not try and sugar coat things. Thats what I liked about my church. My pastor said it like it is in the bible. He doesnt scream and jump around. He is very calm, but he doesnt jump around things to make it SOUND good to new people coming in the church.
Upvote
0
Great Post! Very honest, and acknowledging you do not know it all and have all the answers is a good realization of us creatures, we believe we have a Creator, can we know this Creator. As Christians, we believe God has revealed himself throughout history, therefore the importance of the bible. You can know what God expects of you by reading the bible. So I would start by making sure your in union with his commands, the 10 commandments and then proceed to see how Jesus would want you to live your life. You might not be able to say right away, My Lord and my God, but start anyway living what God would expect out of you if you were his follower. Doing that alone will give you an important aid in the area of morality because we really don't know whats best but God does, another opportunity to humble ourselfes and not be the final Authority of what's good and what is evil. This is what usually separates a person from God, my interpretation of what is good and evil for me, thus discarding a God who would be an obstacle for my will and desires. God fully understands you and loves you, just be completely honest with him, he knows anywaystrayed said:
, start communicating with your Creator and try to serve him as best you can, God bless. It is a great joy to be a servant of God.
Upvote
0
About going to church--it might be fun to observe many churches, spending only one day each, so you get a good representation before you tear your hair out over one. They seem more diverse than they used to be.
Trust, that's something which should be gained over time--you have good reason for caution. I think you're taking a good path, and there are plenty of books and radio shows and tv programs to supplement what you're doing now.
If you want to get into the Old Testament, start with Psalms and Proverbs. Ask God to shed light on what you're reading...talk with Him about some of your concerns.
If you want to get into any extra reading on related subjects, people here can recommend books on specific topics.
It's no embarrassment to change your mind about something that didn't make sense before. We're always learning and adapting.
And PM any of us with questions you don't feel comfortable writing on the public forum.
Trust, that's something which should be gained over time--you have good reason for caution. I think you're taking a good path, and there are plenty of books and radio shows and tv programs to supplement what you're doing now.
If you want to get into the Old Testament, start with Psalms and Proverbs. Ask God to shed light on what you're reading...talk with Him about some of your concerns.
If you want to get into any extra reading on related subjects, people here can recommend books on specific topics.
It's no embarrassment to change your mind about something that didn't make sense before. We're always learning and adapting.
And PM any of us with questions you don't feel comfortable writing on the public forum.
Upvote
0
bethdinsmore
Veteran
Hi friend -
I can empathize with where you are coming from. (See my profile if you're interested.) I had this hugely long reply for you, and lost it, so this time I'm going to try to be briefer, and please let me know if there is anything you'd like me to explain further. I do have verses to back up my views.
Do't worry what your motive is to seek saving faith - "God is gentle and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love." He is also "gentle and humble in heart." He deeply wants us in His family, no matter what our motives are.
Do you believe what the Bible says about going to Heaven? If not, you could get a lot of help in making up your mind by checking out Christian (external) evidences. Please let me know if you want websites.
If you believe the Bible, the rest of the things will seem more relevant for you at this time:
Concerning not knowing if you were a Christian as a child - you can know for sure, and it's eternal. Here's what Scripture says, from my website:
QUOTE: "What is saving faith? In salvation verses, the Greek for believe is "to trust in or rely upon". As in John 3:16, Acts 16:31 - to trust in Christ's death on the cross to pay for all sins (I Peter 3:18) and to get us to Heaven one day, without any good works on our own (Ephesians 2:8-9). (See also the verses at the bottom of my posts). In other words, "faith alone in Christ alone plus nothing".
And we cannot lose our salvation (see gift in Rom. 6:23 & 11:29, also John 10:28-29 - we can't even take ourselves out of God's hand). If you see verses seeming to contradict these, just ask yourself which can be taken more than one way - God never contradicts Himself.
So, if the worst sinner in the world made that decision on his deathbed, he will have a home in Heaven. If he should recover and continue sinning, he would be punished by his heavenly Father, but he would still go to Heaven when he died, because he cannot lose his salvation.
Concerning sin, God says that everyone is a sinner. "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) That's why He sent Jesus to make the payment for all sins on the cross. We do not have to conform (do good works, promise to be good, etc.) in order to receive eternal life. We only need to make a decision to rely on Jesus to save us. To accept God's free gift. (Romans 6:23) . END QUOTE
Once we have made the decision, to be sure we understand correctly, we can ask ourselves this question: "What am I counting on to get to Heaven?"
If our answer included even a tiny bit of good works or promises, that shows we are not relying completely on Jesus to be our sinbearer and to get us there.
That was obviously the problem with those you mentioned who were serving God, but whom Jesus said He did not know. Jesus says He knows those who are His, those who have trusted Him as Savior - they are Christians, and part of His family. Whether Christians serve Him or not, they are bound for Heaven. But those who simply serve Him will never go there.
It's great that you are reading the Bible - and once a person trusts in Christ alone as their sinbearer, the Holy Spirits indwells them - one of His big jobs is to explain the Scriptures to us. Reading one of the Gospels can help us to know Jesus and God better.
About a church - it has been my experience that the most loving and accepting ones are conservative, evangelical. Especially ones with home groups. But we're all a bunch of sinners - that's one reason we are to keep "looking unto Jesus."
Please let me know if I can help. The search is well worth it all. God bless you, friend. I'll pray for you.
Aloha in Jesus
I can empathize with where you are coming from. (See my profile if you're interested.) I had this hugely long reply for you, and lost it, so this time I'm going to try to be briefer, and please let me know if there is anything you'd like me to explain further. I do have verses to back up my views.
Do't worry what your motive is to seek saving faith - "God is gentle and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love." He is also "gentle and humble in heart." He deeply wants us in His family, no matter what our motives are.
Do you believe what the Bible says about going to Heaven? If not, you could get a lot of help in making up your mind by checking out Christian (external) evidences. Please let me know if you want websites.
If you believe the Bible, the rest of the things will seem more relevant for you at this time:
Concerning not knowing if you were a Christian as a child - you can know for sure, and it's eternal. Here's what Scripture says, from my website:
QUOTE: "What is saving faith? In salvation verses, the Greek for believe is "to trust in or rely upon". As in John 3:16, Acts 16:31 - to trust in Christ's death on the cross to pay for all sins (I Peter 3:18) and to get us to Heaven one day, without any good works on our own (Ephesians 2:8-9). (See also the verses at the bottom of my posts). In other words, "faith alone in Christ alone plus nothing".
And we cannot lose our salvation (see gift in Rom. 6:23 & 11:29, also John 10:28-29 - we can't even take ourselves out of God's hand). If you see verses seeming to contradict these, just ask yourself which can be taken more than one way - God never contradicts Himself.
So, if the worst sinner in the world made that decision on his deathbed, he will have a home in Heaven. If he should recover and continue sinning, he would be punished by his heavenly Father, but he would still go to Heaven when he died, because he cannot lose his salvation.
Concerning sin, God says that everyone is a sinner. "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) That's why He sent Jesus to make the payment for all sins on the cross. We do not have to conform (do good works, promise to be good, etc.) in order to receive eternal life. We only need to make a decision to rely on Jesus to save us. To accept God's free gift. (Romans 6:23) . END QUOTE
Once we have made the decision, to be sure we understand correctly, we can ask ourselves this question: "What am I counting on to get to Heaven?"
If our answer included even a tiny bit of good works or promises, that shows we are not relying completely on Jesus to be our sinbearer and to get us there.
That was obviously the problem with those you mentioned who were serving God, but whom Jesus said He did not know. Jesus says He knows those who are His, those who have trusted Him as Savior - they are Christians, and part of His family. Whether Christians serve Him or not, they are bound for Heaven. But those who simply serve Him will never go there.
It's great that you are reading the Bible - and once a person trusts in Christ alone as their sinbearer, the Holy Spirits indwells them - one of His big jobs is to explain the Scriptures to us. Reading one of the Gospels can help us to know Jesus and God better.
About a church - it has been my experience that the most loving and accepting ones are conservative, evangelical. Especially ones with home groups. But we're all a bunch of sinners - that's one reason we are to keep "looking unto Jesus."
Please let me know if I can help. The search is well worth it all. God bless you, friend. I'll pray for you.
Aloha in Jesus
Upvote
0
QUOTE: "What is saving faith? In salvation verses, the Greek for believe is "to trust in or rely upon". As in John 3:16, Acts 16:31 - to trust in Christ's death on the cross to pay for all sins (I Peter 3:18) and to get us to Heaven one day, without any good works on our own (Ephesians 2:8-9). (See also the verses at the bottom of my posts). In other words, "faith alone in Christ alone plus nothing".
Ok, I never really looked at it like that. So basically you are saying that "true" christians do good works out of LOVE for God and Christ our saviour, but not because they feel indebted to, right? That kinda makes sense... I've been going through the thought process of "Ok, now that I have accepted Jesus, I really need to buckle down and get my act together, (quit this, start doing that, etc.)". Whereas now; if I follow what you are saying correctly, I can relax a little bit on that mode of thought and let my good deeds and correction of not so good deeds come naturally as I live and learn through Christ and His teachings? Lemme know if I got that right. =)
Ok, I never really looked at it like that. So basically you are saying that "true" christians do good works out of LOVE for God and Christ our saviour, but not because they feel indebted to, right? That kinda makes sense... I've been going through the thought process of "Ok, now that I have accepted Jesus, I really need to buckle down and get my act together, (quit this, start doing that, etc.)". Whereas now; if I follow what you are saying correctly, I can relax a little bit on that mode of thought and let my good deeds and correction of not so good deeds come naturally as I live and learn through Christ and His teachings? Lemme know if I got that right. =)
Upvote
0
Hi Stray, don't put off what you think can separate you from Christ because that will weaken your relationship if your not making an effort to follow his teachings. Some things can take time so don't beat yourself up but we are to put on the new man Jesus Christ and try to be Christians in the world for Christ wants all men and women to come to salvation. We don't want to lead people away from God by our actions especially if we're proclaiming to be a Christian. Not to offend my brothers and sisters who believe once saved, always saved, many christian denominations do not take that position. We believe you can lose your salvation by your freewill up until the day you die, so don't take it for granted would be other Christians on that perspective, once again not to offend our brethen but all Christians do not accept once saved , always saved , nobody will be sorry in our position that you must die in the state of grace, without grave unrepentent sin to enter the kingdom of God. God bless.strayed said:
Upvote
0
bethdinsmore
Veteran
Hi again friend - quoting my post and your reply to it:
That's right, if by relax a bit, you mean relying on God to grow you, and cooperating with Him wholeheartedly as He reveals His will. He desires a loving relationship with us - get around some happy mature Christians who can teach you how it works. You'll grow a lot faster that way. They and the Holy Spirit will help you "get your act together". Not by law, but by enthusiasm, gratitude, and love for God and others.
And another quote from my post:
QUOTE: And we cannot lose our salvation (see gift in Rom. 6:23 & 11:29, also John 10:28-29 - we can't even take ourselves out of God's hand). If you see verses seeming to contradict these, just ask yourself which verses can be taken more than one way - God never contradicts Himself. END QUOTE
I'll quote the verses here, so you can see for yourself if they are clear or not :
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (NIV)
Rom 11:29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. (NIV)
John 10:28-29 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. (NIV) (We can't even snatch ourselves out of God's hand.)
For learning more about living a victorious Christian life, you might enjoy The Practice of the Presence of God, and the Christian's Secret of a Happy Life; and They Found the Secret tells how to "let go and let God" by telling some stories of outstanding Christians. Daily devotionals will give you a lot of strength - you could check some out in "Devotion" at the top of the page. But major on the Bible. Here are some of my favorites:
a Gospel to learn what Jesus and the Father are like,
Proverbs for wisdom
Psalms to see relationships between God and man
Philippians to see what kind of a thought life we are to have
Romans - especially chapters 7 and 8 to understand power over sin and the depth of God's love for us.
Psalm 139 to see how special we are.
Let me know if I can help, friend. You have a wonderful life ahead.
Aloha in Jesus
Eph 2:8-9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
(NIV)
Rom 11:6
6 And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
(NIV)
Phil 1:6
6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
(NIV) 24/7
2 Cor 1:9
9 Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead.
(NIV)
2 Pet 1:3
3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
(NIV)
strayed said:
That's right, if by relax a bit, you mean relying on God to grow you, and cooperating with Him wholeheartedly as He reveals His will. He desires a loving relationship with us - get around some happy mature Christians who can teach you how it works. You'll grow a lot faster that way. They and the Holy Spirit will help you "get your act together". Not by law, but by enthusiasm, gratitude, and love for God and others.
And another quote from my post:
QUOTE: And we cannot lose our salvation (see gift in Rom. 6:23 & 11:29, also John 10:28-29 - we can't even take ourselves out of God's hand). If you see verses seeming to contradict these, just ask yourself which verses can be taken more than one way - God never contradicts Himself. END QUOTE
I'll quote the verses here, so you can see for yourself if they are clear or not :
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (NIV)
Rom 11:29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. (NIV)
John 10:28-29 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. (NIV) (We can't even snatch ourselves out of God's hand.)
For learning more about living a victorious Christian life, you might enjoy The Practice of the Presence of God, and the Christian's Secret of a Happy Life; and They Found the Secret tells how to "let go and let God" by telling some stories of outstanding Christians. Daily devotionals will give you a lot of strength - you could check some out in "Devotion" at the top of the page. But major on the Bible. Here are some of my favorites:
a Gospel to learn what Jesus and the Father are like,
Proverbs for wisdom
Psalms to see relationships between God and man
Philippians to see what kind of a thought life we are to have
Romans - especially chapters 7 and 8 to understand power over sin and the depth of God's love for us.
Psalm 139 to see how special we are.
Let me know if I can help, friend. You have a wonderful life ahead.
Aloha in Jesus
Eph 2:8-9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
(NIV)
Rom 11:6
6 And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
(NIV)
Phil 1:6
6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
(NIV) 24/7
2 Cor 1:9
9 Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead.
(NIV)
2 Pet 1:3
3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
(NIV)
Upvote
0
Hey. i went through a similar thing (i think) throughout most of my life until around Easter this year. I had asked Jesus into my life, asked for forgiveness, prayed every night and read the Bible. i knew God was there but i didnt think He was listening to me. I kept thinking I was not a Christian even though I had asked God into my life and that I wouldnt go to heaven, etc.
I prayed for God to show himself in my life and to give me a rock solid faith. At a church camp this Easter i went through the most amazing experience of my life where God really showed me how He died on the cross and went through all the pain for everyone's salvation. My faith has been strenthened such alot since then (and continues to) and i no longer doubt the word of God and my salvation.
Ask God to show himself to you and you will be surprised by how clearly He presents himself to you!
I prayed for God to show himself in my life and to give me a rock solid faith. At a church camp this Easter i went through the most amazing experience of my life where God really showed me how He died on the cross and went through all the pain for everyone's salvation. My faith has been strenthened such alot since then (and continues to) and i no longer doubt the word of God and my salvation.
Ask God to show himself to you and you will be surprised by how clearly He presents himself to you!
Upvote
0
TheMatman
Well-Known Member
- Oct 18, 2005
- 478
- 17
- 51
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
strayed said:
Well, it doesn't cut the mustard for me, either.
Faith is not an act; its a reality. You can't pretend that you have it. Either you do or you don't.
Faith is not a one way street. God must put His faith in us, just as we must put our faith in Him. What you are going through right now is tantamount to a vetting process where God tests you to see if you can be trusted. If you seek after him with all of your heart (if not all of your head), if you want to have truth simply because it is true, if you would rather be right with God for no other reason than that you want to fellowship with Him (i.e, you seek the giver and not the gift)--as you approach this level in your walk with God, God will place more faith in you. And as he trusts you, you will trust him more.
Upvote
0
M
mannysee
Guest
strayed said:
Hi,
as another person replied to your original post, you are correct that you can't do it alone. Jesus Christ does it for you/us. And like they said, faith does come by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
The faith that saves a person, is that which is directed toward Jesus Christ and his resurrection from the dead. That person believes or trusts in what Jesus went through by his death (he was delivered over for our offences) and resurrection (he was raised for our justification).
If have to be careful though that i am not putting the horse before the cart for you, or in other words showing you God's grace before God's law (the 10 commandments).
No one can keep the commandments (by the law is the knowledge of sin). The law convicts us of sin and shows us that we are lawbreakers and by virtue of having broken God's holy law, stand in danger of the judgement.
When a person realizes that Jesus Christ made the way to be forgiven and reconciled to God, he clings to Christ alone for hope and is saved from God's wrath.
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
