My attempt at interpreting Revelations. pt 1

[KalithAlur]

(I strongly suspect I was mistaken.)

 

[KalithAlur]

(I don't know what came over me, those interpretations were all extremely childish, irresponsible, and ill informed.)

 

[Zadok7000]

This is not going well so far...

 

[zeke37]

most of the "symbols" in Rev are already explained for us by God, right in Rev and other prophetic books
and I don't know that you got any of them correct.

 

[interpreter]

The 24 elders represent the 12 tribes of Israel (God's first witness) plus the 12 disciples (God's second witness in Jerusalem). It may be that they also represent the 24 nations that will reign with Jesus in the glorious 1000-year reign of the Church. (i.e, the EU and the US and possibly Israel).

 

[NJBeliever]

The 24 elders represent the 12 tribes of Israel (God's first witness) plus the 12 disciples (God's second witness in Jerusalem). It may be that they also represent the 24 nations that will reign with Jesus in the glorious 1000-year reign of the Church. (i.e, the EU and the US and possibly Israel).

Where is any of this stated in the Bible?

 

[NJBeliever]

I think the End Times are here.

Chapter 4, The Throne in Heaven, discusses the leaders of all sentient life (lion eagle ox and man) seeing in every direction every moment, every moment of their existence an expression of their devotion to God. I think it is this pure hearted devotion which provides them the ability to see in all directions, and that this Throne in Heaven is foreshadowing the paradise to occur at the end of the Book of Revelation. I consider the 24 elders to be the hours of the day, only as old as the earth has rotated around the sun, laying their crowns before that which permits their existence - God.

I consider the Lamb in chapters 5 - 6 symbolic of the unconditional love of Jesus Christ. Also symbolic of purity. And it may even symbolize the two witnesses discussed in Chapter 11, empowered by the Lamb: meak, wearing sackcloth, yet capable of openly discussing the corruption of the Antichrist's elite power structure without being harmed. I do not think Jesus himself returns until after these men have come and gone, when the Antichrist is about to be defeated.

Chapter 6 discusses that, while the Lamb is good and unlocking these seals to do the work of goodness, the forces of darkness are the first to exploit this lack of restriction. I suspect, because they are impulsive. Love provides clarity, pride delusion and forward momentum.

Chapter 7, Verse 17

For the Lamb at the center of the throne will
be their shepherd;
he will lead them to springs of living
water.
And God will wipe away every tear from
their eyes.

Those who have accepted Jesus Christ into their hearts as their savior will be led by Christ to feed on love itself (Christ's blood, springs of living water) and they will no longer suffer, because this water will so awaken their hearts they will only experience love.

Verichip 666 - Verichip 666 the Mark of the Beast Our Government | Truth-It - I see the Verichip as the Mark of the Beast.

I see the 144,000 virgins as symbolic of a significant minority of people awakening, through pure hearted devotion to God, filled with unconditional love by their connection to God. A minority of Christians who transcend desire with the help of Jesus Christ.

I think Chapter 12, The Woman and the Dragon, discusses the past and the future. It retells the story of the Devil, an ancient serpent, a dragon, seducing angels into falling to the earth with him, his "tail" / tale (lies) sweeping a third of the stars out of the sky. This hurts the people of earth:

But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!

I suspect the Woman symbolises Love:

Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring - those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

It does not make sense to me that her offspring would consist of all who obey God's commandments, unless she symbolised Love, that which motivates devotion to God. When the dragon wages war against her, he wages war against love, attempting to guide the peoples to embrace selfishness and pride, and surrender their hearts.

Why can't we just take the four beasts around the throne as 4 beasts?

Why can't the scene in Revelation 5 be an actual event that has happened and John witnessed it?

There's no need to just try and put one's own spit and interpretation on Revelation. The Bible is a self-confirming book. Everything that can be seen in Revelation can be interpreted and confirmed through other scriptures.

 

[interpreter]

Where is any of this stated in the Bible?

The 24 nations are also represented by the 24 fruits born by the two trees of life in the New Jerusalem whose foliage is for the healing of the nations that are saved. (See Rev. 21 & 22).
Concerning the glorious 1000-year reign of the Church on Earth involving multiple thrones, see Rev. 20:6

 

[NJBeliever]

This was your original post:

The 24 elders represent the 12 tribes of Israel (God's first witness) plus the 12 disciples (God's second witness in Jerusalem).

Again, I ask: where is this ever stated in the Bible??

And regarding the Heavenly trees of life, there are three trees described in Rev 22, not 2. So that would be 36 fruits.

 

[Codger]

The 24 elders represent the 12 tribes of Israel (God's first witness) plus the 12 disciples (God's second witness in Jerusalem). It may be that they also represent the 24 nations that will reign with Jesus in the glorious 1000-year reign of the Church. (i.e, the EU and the US and possibly Israel).

That's an old Dispensational 20th century western interpretation. How can you add disciples and tribes together - absurd. It's like adding apples and oranges and the result are pears.

Historically, every Jew in Jesus' day knew who the 24 elders were - it was well known in the first century. In the Temple the priesthood was divided into 24 turns of 24. Each of the 24 groups had a leader who was the "Elder" - usually a head of a family. Hense 24 elders. The 24 turns represent the leadership of the whole body of priests or 576 priests - all of the Priests of Israel. The New Testament believer is also called a Priest.

Each turn of 24 Priests served for 8 streight days about twice per year. The incoming 24 Priests started on the sabbath. The outgoing turn would conduct the morning sacrifices and the incoming Priests would conduct the evening service.

Ref: Mishna

 

[zeke37]

24 courses of the Levites....

I thought they served a 7 day course, not 8....Sabbath to Sabbath
1Chr24

http://www.intercontinentalcog.org/Appendix/Appendix_179.html#abia

and I do not see the 576 reference...maybe you could expand your view as to the 576 reference

 

[NJBeliever]

That's an old Dispensational 20th century western interpretation. How can you add disciples and tribes together - absurd. It's like adding apples and oranges and the result are pears.

Historically, every Jew in Jesus' day knew who the 24 elders were - it was well known in the first century. In the Temple the priesthood was divided into 24 turns of 24. Each of the 24 groups had a leader who was the "Elder" - usually a head of a family. Hense 24 elders. The 24 turns represent the leadership of the whole body of priests or 576 priests - all of the Priests of Israel. The New Testament believer is also called a Priest.

Each turn of 24 Priests served for 8 streight days about twice per year. The incoming 24 Priests started on the sabbath. The outgoing turn would conduct the morning sacrifices and the incoming Priests would conduct the evening service.

Ref: Mishna

EXACTLY!! Amen.

And Jesus, who is our High Priest, has his own 24 courses with elders as well. And that's who they are.

Codger - That is proper prophetic interpretation. Using actual types from the Old Testament to understand New Testament prophecy. Praise The Lord!! I have been waiting for someone to do this!

And here is further confirmation:

Hebrews 8: 1Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.



So again the worship system under the tabernacle is modeled on the heavenly and thus it becomes even more clear that the 24 elders are pattered after the 24 courses of our High Priest, Jesus Christ. God bless.

 

[zeke37]

do you mean that there were 576 total priests in the bible? 24x24?

 

[anthrogohn]

To KalithAlur and to the Interpreter. Please read 1 Peter 1:20: "This then you must understand first of all, that NO PROPHECY OF SCRIPTURE IS MADE BY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION." Please quote in the Bible, let the Bible interpret itself.

 

[Codger]

24 courses of the Levites....

I thought they served a 7 day course, not 8....Sabbath to Sabbath
1Chr24

Companion Bible Appendix 179 Course of Abia and Datings of Begetting

and I do not see the 576 reference...maybe you could expand your view as to the 576 reference

Yes, this information came from the Mishnah, which is the authoritative historical record from about 200AD. It is the best recollection of the actual operation of the Temple. It comes from either Tractate Tamid or Middos I can't recall which one. Both are worth reading as they describe the details of the daily operation of the Temple.

The incoming "Shift" of 24 Priests started on the Sabbath. They performed the evening sacrifice and the outgoing shift performed the morning sacrifice - they overlapped a day. As you can see the Priests only served a couple weeks during the year (52 weeks divided by 24 shifts). Each of the 24 shifts of 24 Priests had a leader called the elder. So the 24 elders made up or represented all of the Priesthood of Israel. Makes sense.


The NT alludes to the idea that both Judas and John were Priests. Of course the Priests were specifically descendants of Aaron - the first High Priest. The levites basically did all of the grunt work in the Temple. This same John wrote the Revelation, so it would be logical that he was referring to the 24 elders of the Temple. The idea of the 24 elders being the twelve (there were actually 13 total) disciples or apostles (there were way more than 12) plus the 12 tribes is a 20th century interpretation. The answers to Revelation are found in history as we must understand what Revelation meant to the people to whom it was written.

 

[interpreter]

This was your original post:




Again, I ask: where is this ever stated in the Bible??

And regarding the Heavenly trees of life, there are three trees described in Rev 22, not 2. So that would be 36 fruits.

Huh? Where in the world do you get 3 trees of life?

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Everything in Revelation has an Old Testament passage to aid in understanding.

For example, the "white robes that are washed" are from Exodus 19:10-20 and are also found in Zechariah.

Zechariah also explains the four horses/horsemen further as well as the two witnesses.

Mystery Babylon is described further in Isaiah 47 and Zechariah 2.

Everything in Revelation has an OT passage that helps explain it.

 

[interpreter]

Everything in Revelation has an Old Testament passage to aid in understanding.

For example, the "white robes that are washed" are from Exodus 19:10-20 and are also found in Zechariah.

Zechariah also explains the four horses/horsemen further as well as the two witnesses.

Mystery Babylon is described further in Isaiah 47 and Zechariah 2.

Everything in Revelation has an OT passage that helps explain it.

Not everything.
For example, the colors of the horses of the four horsemen of the Revelation differ from the four horses in Zechariah.
On the other hand, the abomination of desolation mentioned in both testaments is one and the same, and appeared in the holy spot exactly when Daniel said it would (1290 years after the taking away of the daily sacrifice by Nebuchadnezzar-- see Daniel 12:11).

 

[interpreter]

To KalithAlur and to the Interpreter. Please read 1 Peter 1:20: "This then you must understand first of all, that NO PROPHECY OF SCRIPTURE IS MADE BY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION." Please quote in the Bible, let the Bible interpret itself.

Hi my brother. I can back up everything I say with scripture. If there's something I said that you need a scripture reference for, please let me know, and I'll gladly oblige.

 

[interpreter]

That's an old Dispensational 20th century western interpretation. How can you add disciples and tribes together - absurd. It's like adding apples and oranges and the result are pears.

Historically, every Jew in Jesus' day knew who the 24 elders were - it was well known in the first century. In the Temple the priesthood was divided into 24 turns of 24. Each of the 24 groups had a leader who was the "Elder" - usually a head of a family. Hense 24 elders. The 24 turns represent the leadership of the whole body of priests or 576 priests - all of the Priests of Israel. The New Testament believer is also called a Priest.

Each turn of 24 Priests served for 8 streight days about twice per year. The incoming 24 Priests started on the sabbath. The outgoing turn would conduct the morning sacrifices and the incoming Priests would conduct the evening service.

Ref: Mishna

You would have a good and valid point, except for the fact that the 24 priestly courses are never mentioned in the Revelation, whereas the 12 disciples and the 12 tribes of Israel are. (see Rev. 21:14, 16). And irregardless of which of us are right about the significance of the number 24, either way 24 thrones are seen in the Kingdom Of God which is fast approaching.