My Apple Challenge

[AV1611VET]

Then let's employ Occam's Razor, as I did with Belk, and skip the last five days of the Creation Week and just concentrate on Day One for ease of understanding.

Show me what evidence would exist after God brings the earth into existence.

It is now the end of Day One, and Day Two is about to begin.

What evidence is in existence?

Oops! My mistake!

I'm trying to keep this thread sans Bible.

 

[Freodin]

Really? Really? Jews often spoke like Jesus did?
Jesus as the Wisdom of God
The Son of Man Title
Use of "Abba"
Use of "I Say Unto You"
The "I Am" claims
"Son of God"
The Alpha and the Omega
Miscellaneous Claims

Did Jesus ever claim to be Jupiter, Odin or the Earth Mother? Did he tell about the tao, the divine spirits of the ancestors? Did he tell about his position in the battle between the Gods and the Frostgiants?

No, he didn´t. He told the stories that Jews do. He used motives from the Jewish mythology. He used phrases from the Jewish scripture. He was a Jew and he told jewish stories... not german, roman or chinese ones.

 

[tanzanos]

Technically, that's creatio ex materia -- creation out of something already created.

In creatio ex nihilo, even energy doesn't exist.

nihilo ≠ energy

Without energy; Time, and mass cannot exist. Not much room for a God to reside in!

You have to define what God is made of before you can put forth your apple challenge.

In the Bible it states that God created man unto his image and likeness. This means that not only God looks like a human but has human traits too. Such a being cannot be ethereal. Also such a being cannot exist without energy!

AV, you are treading on purely hypothetical ground and pardon the pun; on Groundless arguments!

 

[AV1611VET]

Without energy; Time, and mass cannot exist. Not much room for a God to reside in!

When God created the earth on the first day, He just brought it into existence.

The 1st Law of Thermodynamics didn't exist as yet.

That's why I say that, during the Creation Week, the amount of mass/energy started out at zero, then was raised to its current level over a period of six days.

You have to define what God is made of before you can put forth your apple challenge.

Element 404 = Unobtainium.

Also such a being cannot exist without energy!

I like to call it Shekinah Energy -- for lack of a better term.

AV, you are treading on purely hypothetical ground and pardon the pun; on Groundless arguments!

I only do it every now and then, eh?

 

[Split Rock]

I just want to point out that creatio ex nihilo generates no [known] evidence.

That's all I want from this thread.

Thank you for your honest answer.

We all - you included - don´t have the slightest clue what kind of evidence creatio ex nihilo would generate.

You assume that it wouldn´t generate evidence - you even presuppose that it wouldn´t generate evidence... but as this is only a hypothetical question, you (and others) can assert what you like, it doesn´t make it correct.

All you could do is to ammend your hypothetical OP: you create an apple by a method that leaves no evidence. Now ask what evidence would be used to show the method of creation... and bask in the glory of getting the tautological answer: well, none at all.

AVET, I only agreed to the obvious. That in your specific example of creation ex nihilo, where you set the parameters, there was no evidence produced of the event. As Freodin correctly pointed out, it is a tautological loop. Now you are claiming that because in your made up example creation ex nihilo produced no evidence that all examples of creation ex nihilo produce no evidence. Thus you are taking a specific example and applying it as a general rule... worse, your specific example is entirely made up!

 

[Belk]

When God created the earth on the first day, He just brought it into existence.

The 1st Law of Thermodynamics didn't exist as yet.

That's why I say that, during the Creation Week, the amount of mass/energy started out at zero, then was raised to its current level over a period of six days.

Why would the first Law of Thermodynamics not be in effect? It's not as if the law would pose an issue for God.

 

[pgp_protector]

AVET, I only agreed to the obvious. That in your specific example of creation ex nihilo, where you set the parameters, there was no evidence produced of the event. As Freodin correctly pointed out, it is a tautological loop. Now you are claiming that because in your made up example creation ex nihilo produced no evidence that all examples of creation ex nihilo produce no evidence. Thus you are taking a specific example and applying it as a general rule... worse, your specific example is entirely made up!

And you think he'll see that as a problem why???

 

[MoonLancer]

When God created the earth on the first day, He just brought it into existence.

The 1st Law of Thermodynamics didn't exist as yet.

laws dont work like that. they simply are. Laws are not created.

 

[AV1611VET]

laws dont work like that. they simply are. Laws are not created.

You don't know Who we're dealing with, do you?

 

[Freodin]

laws dont work like that. they simply are. Laws are not created.

I guess it has been said a million times: The Laws of Nature are descriptive, not prescriptive.

That means, they describe how nature behaves, not dictate how nature should behave.

So if the Laws of Nature (or any single one of them) do not "exist", that would mean that nature does not behave in any way.

Which of course is quite meaningless to say.

You don't know Who we're dealing with, do you?

No, again you simply do not know what you are talking about.

 

[MoonLancer]

You don't know Who we're dealing with, do you?

If this forum wasn't so sensitive i would tell you exactly who we are dealing with.

 

[AV1611VET]

If this forum wasn't so sensitive i would tell you exactly who we are dealing with.

No, you wouldn't.

You might think you would, but you wouldn't.

 

[MoonLancer]

I guess it has been said a million times: The Laws of Nature are descriptive, not prescriptive.

That means, they describe how nature behaves, not dictate how nature should behave.

So if the Laws of Nature (or any single one of them) do not "exist", that would mean that nature does not behave in any way.

I agree. another way to think about is, the world doesn't follow the laws the laws follow the world.

 

[MoonLancer]

No, you wouldn't.

You might think you would, but you wouldn't.

oh? how so?

 

[AV1611VET]

oh? how so?

Well, for one thing, wouldn't that violate one of your Noble Eightfold Paths?

 

[MoonLancer]

Well, for one thing, wouldn't that violate one of your Noble Eightfold Paths?

only if the truth offends and hurts you.

 

[AV1611VET]

only if the truth offends and hurts you.

So this statement you made:

If this forum wasn't so sensitive i would tell you exactly who we are dealing with.

--- you're basically saying that the Eightfold Path will accept some things that CF considers sensitive?

 

[Nathan Poe]

only if the truth offends and hurts you.

Of course it would offend him.

 

[MoonLancer]

So this statement you made:--- you're basically saying that the Eightfold Path will accept some things that CF considers sensitive?

the truth hurts huh? Sometimes it can be the most painful of all.

 

[tanzanos]

What is truth but what one believes it to be! AV sincerely believes that what he says is the truth. You guys have been here long enough to know that people like Dad and AV cannot be dissuaded from their faith! Scientific counter arguments mean nothing to them. Likewise what AV and Dad use as "proof" means nothing to us!

Personally I enjoy taking a "bash" at AV and Dad. It helps me release the frustration of daily life! This is the only forum where I can laugh to my heart's content!

Let us not spoil it all by saying something stupid like "If this forum wasn't so sensitive I would tell you exactly who we are dealing with."

Ease up people and don't forget that people like Dad and AV do more to discredit creationism than anyone else here. They simply give it a meaning that will be too hard to swallow even for the most religious. Dad and AV belong to a special group of people that do not, cannot, defy their beliefs lest they broil in fire and brimstone.

They have the most powerful answer to any question that man has ever come up with:

"GOD DID IT CASE CLOSED" You cannot beat that no matter what!