My Abiogenesis Challenge

[TagliatelliMonster]

You're talking here with adults who know there is a GOD

That changes everything

You told a southern Baptist to "leave the work to scientists"

But when it comes to science vs GOD, HE is SOVEREIGN and HE will remain SOVEREIGN

We aren't "evolving" to some completed end
We are "evolving" from the source of that completed end

That is Some of us are

I do not care about your particular religious beliefs, nore do they have any place or relevance in science classes.

 

[miknik5]

5 second search on Google Scholar

You think I'm searching on google ?

Thank you for offering me this website
Is it something you use often?
Because I never heard of it until now and still will not use it

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Change in diet is adaptation. Try again.

All evolution is, is the accumulation of adaptions.

 

[miknik5]

I do not care about your particular religious beliefs, nore do they have any place or relevance in science classes.

This isn't a science class

 

[miknik5]

All evolution is, is the accumulation of adaptions.

Yep. That I can agree with

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

This isn't a science class

The southern baptists statement was literally about putting their religious beliefs in science classes:

Therefore, be it RESOLVED, That the Southern Baptist Convention in session in New Orleans, Louisiana, June 1982, express our support for the teaching of Scientific Creationism in our public schools.

Maybe you should get familiar with the conversation you are injecting yourself into, before posting.

 

[miknik5]

The southern baptists statement was literally about putting their religious beliefs in science classes:

Therefore, be it RESOLVED, That the Southern Baptist Convention in session in New Orleans, Louisiana, June 1982, express our support for the teaching of Scientific Creationism in our public schools.

Maybe you should get familiar with the conversation you are injecting yourself into, before posting.

Maybe you should come into all conversations pure

 

[HitchSlap]

Lol

Dunning-Kruger is a thing.

 

[miknik5]

Lol

Dunning-Kruger is a thing.

If it's important please explain

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

We were talking about abiogenesis

You said people are in the process of looking for evidence. Any progress that you could disclose here?

Here are a few links - they may not be the latest, but they give a flavour:

The Secret of How Life Began - BBC overview of the history and recent developments in abiogenesis research.
How Did Evolution Begin? - a proposed model for the chemistry to biology transition.
A New Physics Theory of Life - a proposal for a thermodynamic explanation for the tendency for self-organization & complexity, based on energy dissipation.
Artificial Cells that Replicate Themselves (full details here) - a study of how self-organized 'protocells' (vesicles) can divide.

The BBC article gives the best overview of the range of hypotheses, research fields, and progress made; if you read nothing else, I would recommend reading that.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Change in diet is adaptation. Try again.

Let me get this straight. You challenge me to find a mutation that is beneficial to our race and is being adopted. I do that. And you criticize it on the basis its . . actually an adaptation?

I submit that you really, really don't know what evolution is all about or what the words evolutionists use actually mean. You just think you know its wrong on grounds that don't involve you actually understanding it.

 

[miknik5]

Let me get this straight. You challenge me to find a mutation that is beneficial to our race and is being adopted. I do that. And you criticize it on the basis its . . actually an adaptation?

I submit that you really, really don't know what evolution is all about or what the words evolutionists use actually mean. You just think you know its wrong on grounds that don't involve you actually understanding it.

There was a starting point

 

[miknik5]

Can I also ask one to read 2 Thessalonians 2 to see if the sophisticated minds of scientists can grasp what is going to happen whe. "HE who holds all things back is taken out of the way"?

 

[miknik5]

Please, I am not being offensive when I say the sophisticated minds. A scientist has been given the ability to understand many many things that a commoner couldn't ever understand

But what they Don't understand is who gave them their gift/talent to begin with

Something Nebuchadnezzar found out the hard way

You have NO IDEA how much GOD holds back so that we are never totally consumed It's by HIS GRACE that HE does

 

[Strivax]

Well, if you look at it logically, there was a time when the Earth was lifeless. And there is a time now, when it is teeming with life. So, something in between happened. Some people think God was necessary to turn a barren world fecund, others think it might have happened by either chance or necessity of circumstances.

For myself, I'm inclined to think God doesn't show himself to those who don't want Him, and never will. I think He leaves faith an entirely voluntary matter, a love affair between Him and His believers, and that He will never be 'proved' to exist objectively because that would remove our free choice to trust in Him. So, my guess is that eventually, sooner or later, abiogenesis will be shown to be not only a possible, but the most likely proximate cause of life on Earth.

And will that affect my faith? Not one jot. It just pushes the issue back one stage. Who created the circumstances that made abiogenesis likely or inevitable? Ultimately, who created the universe and the mathematical, physical, chemical and eventually biological laws that seem to govern it? Abiogenesis seems an unlikely answer to such questions, and, indeed, does not even seek to address them.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Strathos]

You think I'm searching on google ?

Thank you for offering me this website
Is it something you use often?
Because I never heard of it until now and still will not use it

Well, you asked. Not my fault if you won't look at the answers.

 

[miknik5]

Well, if you look at it logically, there was a time when the Earth was lifeless. And there is a time now, when it is teeming with life. So, something in between happened. Some people think God was necessary to turn a barren world fecund, others think it might have happened by either chance or necessity of circumstances.

For myself, I'm inclined to think God doesn't show himself to those who don't want Him, and never will. I think He leaves faith an entirely voluntary matter, a love affair between Him and His believers, and that He will never be 'proved' to exist objectively because that would remove our free choice to trust in Him. So, my guess is that eventually, sooner or later, abiogenesis will be shown to be not only a possible, but the most likely proximate cause of life on Earth.

And will that affect my faith? Not one jot. It just pushes the issue back one stage. Who created the circumstances that made abiogenesis likely or inevitable? Ultimately, who created the universe and the mathematical, physical, chemical and eventually biological laws that seem to govern it? Abiogenesis seems an unlikely answer to such questions, and, indeed, does not even seek to address them.

Best wishes, Strivax.

Is that what you'll be telling HIM on that day?

That it was HE who chose to keep HIMSELF hidden?

Even when His Word and His own Witneses whom HE sent by HIS SPIRIT to preach THE TRUTH will testify to the TRUTH

All mouths will be silenced
There is nothing new or hidden that we can bring before GOD

HE already knows everything

 

[miknik5]

Well, you asked. Not my fault if you won't look at the answers.

I didn't ask sir
You volunteered it assuming and implying that I was getting info in five minutes from a website

 

[Strathos]

I didn't ask sir
You volunteered it assuming and implying that I was getting info in five minutes from a website

Actually I was saying that's where I got it from, in other words saying that it was very easy to look up and you could easily do the same.

 

[Strivax]

Is that what you'll be telling HIM on that day?

That it was HE who chose to keep HIMSELF hidden?

Well, my contention is yes, that non-believers cannot 'see' Him, because He hides Himself from them. All those prophets and priests and witnesses, well, as far as the unbeliever is concerned, they are mad, misguided, power hungry, or socially programmed. Until such time as the unbeliever needs Him, and searches out God with an open heart. And then, and only then, the unbeliever will understand.

Further, it is my contention that there is no objective proof God exists, and never will be. If there was such objective proof, then everyone would have to believe, not because they want Him, but because it would be a logical necessity. And that would ruin the beauty of the voluntary relationship believers have with their ideal God, who rules His Kingdom not as an authoritarian autocrat but through our loving relationship with ultimate perfection.

Or, so it seems to me.

Best wishes, Strivax.