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Nonsense. You are talking belief there. The conclusions based on rigorous testing are not relevant to any claim that a mouse is able to evolve and mutate because of any reason other than God's creation. Get a grip.Man has evolved to reach conclusions based on rigorous testing of assumptions and reviewing objective evidence.
Nonsense. You are talking belief there. The conclusions based on rigorous testing are not relevant to any claim that a mouse is able to evolve and mutate because of any reason other than God's creation. Get a grip.
That all depends on the assumptions and what the heck you are talking about.You believe what you will. I am referring to empirical evidence that determines the voracity of assumptions.
You clearly are absent the above for anything topical here. Anything else to say??Absent the above, you believe what you do on faith. No problem with that by the way, to each's own.
The Bethlehem story sets the calendar. .
Objective in not something that you can take with you thousands of years ago, and is a useless concept and irrelevant here. Unless you have objective evidence that Jesus never lived and none of the prophets?
You have none of that for any claim that a mouse does not have created traits! Nor that Jesus did not come on cue, where He came and when He came. Etc etc...praytell, what DO you have exactly??
What evidence would you be expecting? footprints?Jesus lived, performed miracles, died and was resurrected...?
Fine.....where's YOUR evidence for that...!?
Actually we do -- in a way.Nor do we have evidence that a magical gnome doesnt live at the bottom of my garden...
What evidence would you be expecting? footprints?
Any evidence found would be interpreted as either anachronistic or evidence for something else.
My opinion is that God is smarter than scientists and knows that they will use evidence against Him (as they do the Bible).
Thus He didn't preserve the evidence, He preserved the recordings of the evidence.
This is why I think Noah's Ark no longer exists.
Else scientists would be all over it and end up claiming it belonged to someone else, or it leaked and couldn't have floated, or it has evidence of having 30 people on board, or some other such nonsense.
Perhaps some lack of understanding or misinformation led you to wrongly assume that the accounts in the gospel somehow disagree. No. They sing together like a band of birds.Umm....which Bethlehem story...?
Matthew's....? Luke's...? Given the discrepancies and contradictions, that must be one whacky calendar you have there...!
No one is making the claims of the bible. They were made long ago. You have no objective ability to dispute God's word. Face it. So don't tout some silly 'objectivity'!Ummmm.......you have it backwards.....the responsibility for evidence lies with he who makes the claims.....
Same closet as the evidence for last week.Jesus lived, performed miracles, died and was resurrected...?
Fine.....where's YOUR evidence for that...!?
We don't. Some reference to Jesus and certain events and people are found in secular records. Obviously. Jerusalem was the record center, and central place for Jews. There was apparently, for example, a complete genealogy in the temple. This was referred to by some in the New Testament it is felt. However, the temple and city were destroyed. The rulers of the land also were the ones that had Jesus killed, and were enemies of God and gospel. The very fact that we have the best record on earth regardless of all the insane opposition and impossible circumstances screams out all the louder..'this is truth'!Why do we ONLY find those claims in the Bible (which conflicts itself)...?
Why do we have to wait decades (centuries in some cases) for these supposed events to be recorded, and even then through third-hand hearsay accounts...?
No one is making the claims of the bible. They were made long ago. You have no objective ability to dispute God's word. Face it. So don't tout some silly 'objectivity'!
Same closet as the evidence for last week.We don't. Some reference to Jesus and certain events and people are found in secular records. Obviously. Jerusalem was the record center, and central place for Jews. There was apparently, for example, a complete genealogy in the temple. This was referred to by some in the New Testament it is felt. However, the temple and city were destroyed. The rulers of the land also were the ones that had Jesus killed, and were enemies of God and gospel. The very fact that we have the best record on earth regardless of all the insane opposition and impossible circumstances screams out all the louder..'this is truth'!
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If the Crucifixion was in 30 A.D., Paul's Conversion was as early as 34 A.D., and his first meeting in Jerusalem was around 37 A.D., then we could see that the time between the event of Christ's crucifixion and Paul receiving the information about His death, burial, and resurrection (in Jerusalem) would be as short as seven years (five if we use the earlier date). That is a very short period of time and hardly long enough for legend to creep in and corrupt the story. This is especially important since the apostles were alive and spoke with Paul. They were eyewitness accounts to Christ's death, burial, and post-death appearances. Paul himself had seen the Lord Jesus prior to His death and after His resurrection (Acts 9). Paul's account agreed with the other Apostles' account and Paul wrote it down in 1 Cor. 15 around the year 54.
So, since 1 Corinthians was written as early as 54 A.D., that would mean that from the event (Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection) to writing it down is 24 years. That is a very short period of time. Remember, there were plenty of Christians around who could have corrected the writings of Paul if he was in error. But we have no record at all of any corrections or challenges to the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ from anyone: Roman, Jew, or other Christians.
We must note here that some critics of the Bible claim that there is no extrabiblical evidence of Christ (not true) and that because of it, He didn't exist. The sword cuts both ways. If they can say that Jesus' events aren't real because there is no extrabiblical evidence mentioning them, then we can also say that since there are no extrabiblical accounts refuting the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, then it must be true. In other words, lack of extrabiblical writings does not prove that Christ did not live and did not die.
Furthermore, Paul corroborated the gospel accounts (He wrote before the gospels were written) and verified several things:
Obviously, Paul considered Jesus a historical figure, not a legend or a myth. Furthermore, Paul was a man of great integrity who suffered much for his faith. He was not the kind of person simply to believe tall tales. After all, he was a devout Jew (a Pharisee) and a heavy persecutor of the Church. Something profound had to happen to him to get him to change his position, abandon the Jewish faith and tradition, suffer persecutions, whippings, jail, etc. The most likely event that fits the bill is that Jesus died, was buried, and rose again from the dead, and appeared to Paul, just as Luke said in Acts 9."
- Jesus was born in as a Jew (Gal. 4:4),
- Jesus was betrayed (1 Cor. 11:23)
- Jesus was crucified (Gal. 3:1; 1 Cor. 2:2; Phil. 2:8).
- Jesus was buried and rose again (1 Cor. 15:4; Rom. 6:4).
1 Cor. 15:3-4 demonstrates a creed too early for legend to corrupt. | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
Nope. None at all.There exists an abundance of reasons to doubt the credibility of the bible.
You can't do that! Your facts and abilities won't allow it! All you can do is doubt unreasonably.All you have to do is make an objective venture into biblical historicity and scholarship.
You cannot go back to Israel and talk to us about how Bethlehem was not where a virgin gave birth to the savior of the world. You cannot say Paul was a liar. You cannot say Peter did not walk on water. What CAN you do? Cut the 'I am so objective' routine!I can't do what exactly? Look at something objectively and with a critical eye?
I bet I can and I have.
You cannot go back to Israel and talk to us about how Bethlehem was not where a virgin gave birth to the savior of the world. You cannot say Paul was a liar. You cannot say Peter did not walk on water. What CAN you do? Cut the 'I am so objective' routine!
The education that people get today is a malevolent mutation!And neither can you do any of those things (personally) and state they did happen, now can you?
In absence of actually "being there" historians rely on the historical method, to determine "what likely" happened in the past. Man can write whatever he wishes in an ancient book (or really a bunch of ancient writings in which the true authors are really unknown) and then the powers at be can make the determination, of what they want to use to put in a book. Jesus wasn't the first messiah to be born of a virgin, crucified and risen form the dead, man made up several before him, do you believe in any of those?
Some christians don't like a critical OBJECTIVE eye placed on the bible and I can understand why, but it doesn't change reality. it is what it is.
Yes, a mouse might undergo mutations, but first we need a mouse to be able to mutate!
Perhaps, like my mother, they also trusted the scientists who created nicotine and the big corporations who kept selling cigarettes, and the government, who didn't shut them down?
After all, if cigarette smoking caused lung cancer, wouldn't the government ban cigarette smoking? was her philosophy.
Don't make it look like it's our fault.
I'm sure scientists worked hard to perfect nicotine -- not to mention heroin, marijuana, and LSD.
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