mustard seed

[mike1para]

hi all, my first post on here. oh and happy Easter.
Ive been trawling around on the atheist sites for a while now, lol its like the front line, now i know there is a massive assault by the certain people against God, based on the human teaching of science, now to me this is nonsense because my faith gives me the answer to everything lol.
i was just wondering if any one has thought that this passage could be the Lord Jesus describing the big bang.

Then said he, Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I resemble it?
It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.
– Luke 13:18–9

 

[mike1para]

what im talking about is The Creation Seed.

 

[WretchedMan]

Hi Mike,

Jesus was not speaking about what happened during creation in this passage. He was speaking in parables about the Kingdom of God, which He indicates when He says "What is the Kingdom of God like?".

Remember to keep things in context. If you will seek understanding and wisdom in searching the scriptures, God will give it to you.

God Bless You.

 

[Jase]

hi all, my first post on here. oh and happy Easter.
Ive been trawling around on the atheist sites for a while now, lol its like the front line, now i know there is a massive assault by the certain people against God, based on the human teaching of science, now to me this is nonsense because my faith gives me the answer to everything lol.
i was just wondering if any one has thought that this passage could be the Lord Jesus describing the big bang.

Then said he, Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I resemble it?
It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.
– Luke 13:18–9

While I understand you want to stay strong in your faith, science is not the enemy, and contrary to what you may have learned or have been led to believe, is highly accurate. There is no conflict between God and science.

 

[wayseer]

hi all, my first post on here. oh and happy Easter.

Hi, and welcome.

Ive been trawling around on the atheist sites for a while now, lol its like the front line, now i know there is a massive assault by the certain people against God, based on the human teaching of science,

The 'massive' assault that you imagine is the last ditched efforts as the panic sets in - religion is not dying out as atheists had thought - God is not dead, but well and truly alive.

Atheist beliefs are NOT based on science at all. Rather, they are based on frail and flaky theology masquerading as science. You do Science an injustice but subscribing to the idea that atheism is somehow 'scientific'.

i was just wondering if any one has thought that this passage could be the Lord Jesus describing the big bang.

It is a matter of debate whether Jesus could actually read let alone understand primitive science. Stop trying to fit 21st century science into scripture. If you are looking to explain science in terms of the Christian faith drop in on John Polkinghorne - he was a Professor of math and is now an Anglican priest.

 

[AlAyeti]

While I understand you want to stay strong in your faith, science is not the enemy, and contrary to what you may have learned or have been led to believe, is highly accurate. There is no conflict between God and science.

Good point.

The laboratory and "research" in and of themselves proves the existence of God. Atheism is an old outdated way of thinking. But it's very hard to get people out of their traditions.

www.biologos.org

 

[AlAyeti]

The 'massive' assault that you imagine is the last ditched efforts as the panic sets in - religion is not dying out as atheists had thought - God is not dead, but well and truly alive.

Atheist beliefs are NOT based on science at all. Rather, they are based on frail and flaky theology masquerading as science. You do Science an injustice but subscribing to the idea that atheism is somehow 'scientific'.

You have a fascinating takle on things. Atheists, as powerful and vitriolic as Dennett and Dawkins rely on science for their very solid stance for their atheism. As do most of the common, standard athiest of this age. Of course, one has to wonder what the fool had in his mind for his heart to say "there is no God" before their was Darwin.

It is a matter of debate whether Jesus could actually read let alone understand primitive science.

On what planet?

On this one that He created scientifically, it bears witness that He understood science better than even His creations do.

And on earth, he certainly could read Hebrew or Aramiac or Greek:

Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside.

He taught in their synagogues, and everyone praised him.

He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom.

And he stood up to read.

The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to release the oppressed,
to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."


Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down.

The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, and he began by saying to them, "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."

All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. "Isn't this Joseph's son?" they asked.
Jesus said to them, "Surely you will quote this proverb to me: 'Physician, heal yourself! Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.' "

Stop trying to fit 21st century science into scripture. If you are looking to explain science in terms of the Christian faith drop in on John Polkinghorne - he was a Professor of math and is now an Anglican priest.

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.

As it is written.

 

[wayseer]

You have a fascinating takle on things. Atheists, as powerful and vitriolic as Dennett and Dawkins rely on science for their very solid stance for their atheism.

Do not be fooled by those who use and abuse science for their own agendas. Dawkins does NOT use science at all to support his atheistic views - he uses pseudo-science. I have not read any by Dennett so I am unable to comment in that area.

From both a scientific and theological perspective Dawkins' work is quickly exposed for the piece of propaganda that it is.

Have you read The Dawkins Delusion by Alister McGrath? Worth a read.

 

[mike1para]

Its funny though isnt it that life comes from a seed that has germinated and grown. In effect the big bang was the germination of a seed that has grown into a great tree, that now has life roosting in its branches, the Universe. When the mighty Lord 'Created' his great Creation why wouldnt he just plant a seed and let it grow? because surly that is the evidence for which we are surrounded and are part of, this is how the world we live in works not by things just appearing. (although i have seen miraculous healings and felt the power of the Holy Spirit)
I think the Great and Mighty Lord God, among a million trillion billion other things is a botanical genius lol

 

[wayseer]

Its funny though isnt it that life comes from a seed that has germinated and grown. In effect the big bang was the germination of a seed that has grown into a great tree, that now has life roosting in its branches, the Universe. When the mighty Lord 'Created' his great Creation why wouldnt he just plant a seed and let it grow? because surly that is the evidence for which we are surrounded and are part of, this is how the world we live in works not by things just appearing. (although i have seen miraculous healings and felt the power of the Holy Spirit)
I think the Great and Mighty Lord God, among a million trillion billion other things is a botanical genius lol

Nice take.

 

[Wirraway]

hi all, my first post on here. oh and happy Easter.
Ive been trawling around on the atheist sites for a while now, lol its like the front line, now i know there is a massive assault by the certain people against God, based on the human teaching of science, now to me this is nonsense because my faith gives me the answer to everything lol.
i was just wondering if any one has thought that this passage could be the Lord Jesus describing the big bang.

Then said he, Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I resemble it?
It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.
– Luke 13:18–9

are you saying that science is by nature hostile to God?

and, no, I don't think Luke is describing the big bang.

 

[mike1para]

are you saying that science is by nature hostile to God?

and, no, I don't think Luke is describing the big bang.

Im not saying that science is hostile to God, The only thing that i can think of that is hostile to God are People.
Also Luke is'nt describing anything, he is quoting Jesus who just happens to be God, who knows everything.
If you where God describing to a man what the kingdom of heaven is like, would you look into the back of your mind and see this great Creation of yours that started from a very small seed like point, and has grown into this massive massive thing that has life living in it. would you say to that person =

Then said he, Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I resemble it?
It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.
– Luke 13:18–9

Please Lord if im wrong please forgive me i say these things to the Glory of your name. not for my own benefit but that we may know you better. amen

 

[brightmorningstar]

Science is a totally different discipline to faith and spirituality. It isnt hostile in itself. Some of its findings are hostile to God and can be firendly the next minute as they are revised.
What I would say is that one can fail to see a bigger picture with scientific evidence, and one can come to believe theory is fact. Dawkins is one such person, not particularly skilled and very narrow mnded.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Kingdom is like seed that falls on the ground, it either flourishes and grows or dies.
The Kingdom of God is His rule and reign.

 

[WretchedMan]

Mike,
Again, don't try to shoehorn things into scripture that aren't there. Jesus was speaking of the Kingdom of God to a Jewish audience. The Kingdom of God was and is of great importance in their culture. This passage has nothing to do with any big-bang or creation event.

In terms of addressing atheist arguments, they cannot account for the creation of the universe through naturalistic processes. They are also unable to account for the code in our genes. Matter cannot create information or intelligence. They try to claim that their disbelief is based on science, but it boils down to philosophy.

 

[WretchedMan]

Sorry. Double post.

 

[mike74]

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[mike74]

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[mike1para]

Mike,
Again, don't try to shoehorn things into scripture that aren't there. Jesus was speaking of the Kingdom of God to a Jewish audience. The Kingdom of God was and is of great importance in their culture. This passage has nothing to do with any big-bang or creation event.

In terms of addressing atheist arguments, they cannot account for the creation of the universe through naturalistic processes. They are also unable to account for the code in our genes. Matter cannot create information or intelligence. They try to claim that their disbelief is based on science, but it boils down to philosophy.

I understand what you are saying, but im not trying to shoehorn anything into scripture just trying to interprit it. Jesus asked his followers many times how they interprited the scriptures, some of them are thousands of years old,and it is part of our faiths history that scriptures have been missunderstood leading to disasterous consequences. This thread is my interpritation of this scripture nothing more.
Could you give me the correct interpritation from your view point of the 'Mustard Seed' bearing in mind that Jesus described things from a literal point of view in this part of the Gospels.

 

[WretchedMan]

I commend your desire to grow and learn. That hunger is a good thing and I pray God will grant us wisdom and understanding. I am on a break at work and posting from my phone. I will, as fully as I am able, reply to your question when I am at my computer this evening.

God bless and keep you.