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Muslims in a public forum
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HumbleSiPilot77
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Kris_J said:
http://www.sunniforum.com/
http://www.gawaher.com/
There are many more if you google...
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HumbleSiPilot77
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Bookofknowledge said:I am scared of ban..... I have lived in country which was under UN sanctions.
So? That has nothing to do with this issue at hand here. Can you live being away from CF for a while? Or permanently? Yes? No?
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HumbleSiPilot77
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Bookofknowledge said:
You are not the one to determine this, he is.
I am being his advocate because I saw a rule violation. He might not know this. We don't believe in Jinn, we believe that there are demons. Jinn is a demon alright but a demon is not a jinn (Christian, muslim, jew, good bad all that) Jinns don't exist in Christian faith.
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Bushmaster said:
Let him speak of his heart there is no need of yours and you are not a moderator, the post has already been deleted so move on.
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I now strongly suspect that it is part & parcel of current Fundamentalist Muslim groups as having the inability to critique the beliefs & behaviours of fellow Muslims.
Perhaps it helps to read the article below & we can discuss whether it holds true if Muslims are unable to be critical of Islamic Nations yet are critical of western secular governments.
----
http://www.theglobalist.com/DBWeb/S...px?StoryId=2839
Among Shi'a Muslim clerics in Iran, there is a sharp and oft-stated distinction between "elites" and "masses." The elites are religious scholars and clerics.
The simple believer
Certain things may be said in front of these elites but not the masses. These usually involve complex religious discourse, the sort of talk that might "confuse the simple believer.
For how much longer will the ever-shrinking circle of Iran's religious insiders be able to dominate the lives of a weary public hungry for change?
There are also some things that elites might have license to say in public, but the masses do not. For example, a cleric can question the mysteries of God. But a simple believer cannot.
Irans Islamic Republic, borrowing from this tradition, distinguishes between insiders (khodee) and outsiders (gheyreh khodee).
Insiders and outsiders
The insider is a revolutionary who sided with Ayatollah Khomeini and the other religious revolutionaries in overthrowing the Shah, thus excluding the nationalist democrats, secular leftists, Communists, or Islamic Marxists who also played a key role in the revolution.
Today's "insider" is an elite who adheres to the so-called velayat-e-faqih. Literally, this translates as "rule by clerical jurisprudent" the system created by the late Ayatollah Khomeini that gives power to Iran's Shi'a Muslim clergy and supreme power to one senior cleric.
A surprising confession
This distinction between elites and masses or, insiders and outsiders taken to a government level means this: Former President Hashemi Rafsanjani can stand up in front of a crowd of reporters and say openly (and slyly in typical Rafsanjani style), 90 percent of what we do in the Islamic Republic is un-Islamic, and get away with it, as he did.
There are some things that elites might have license to say in public but the masses do not.
If someone else not considered part of the elite "inside" said the same words in front of reporters, there could be serious repercussions.
In fact, most of Iran's clerics and religious scholars are not "insiders." Of the 5,000 Ayatollahs living in Iran, only 80 take part in government.
Most senior clerics view the velayat-e-faqih as an irreligious aberration, though when they say so out loud, the insiders with the help of their "insider" security services swoop on them with house arrest, trial or, in some cases, execution.
Opposing the Shah
The countrys current president, Mohammad Khatami, is also an insider. In the 1970s, he opposed the Shah, supported Khomeini, and later took part in the governing apparatus of the Islamic Republic.
That's why the other insiders allowed him to run for office in the first place in 1997 though they underestimated his reformist tendencies and his appeal to a population eager for more political and social freedoms and tired of revolutionary fervor.
Are you a club member?
The ever sharper struggle between reformists and conservatives that has become the hallmark of contemporary Iranian politics remains, thus far, an insider-only struggle.
90 percent of what we do in the Islamic Republic is un-Islamic. (Former President Hashemi Rafsanjani)
Few outsiders secular nationalists or liberal democrats or opponents of the Islamic Republic have a public voice in the debate. A conservative election supervisory body stymies outsider attempts to run for Irans parliament and presidency thus denying them insiderness.
But President Khatami and other insider reformists have gone too far, or so their conservative opponents complain. Khatami talks too directly to the people, the simple believers.
A true insider?
His insider hard-line critics complain that he confuses the plain folk with these ideas of democracy and civil society. Some whisper that Khatami may not even be a true "insider," that his ideas on democracy seem to go too far, that he may even be guilty of "blasphemy."
Ironically, the population the masses think Khatami has not gone far enough and display impatience with the pace of change.
There is the door
Several former insiders, like the revolutionary-turned-investigative journalist Akbar Ganji, have been booted out of the circle. Mr. Ganji is currently in jail on charges of insulting Islamic sanctities and defaming public officials for his book and articles which criticize what he deems as the religious fascism of conservatives.
It doesnt matter what the people think. The people are ignorant sheep. (Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi)
In todays Iran, the circle of insiders shrinks as the opposition grows. As more reformists speak out vigorously and boldly, conservatives cry betrayal, and yet another insider becomes an outsider.
Fortunately, though, as the circle shrinks, it will become increasingly untenable for the insiders to silence the outsider and "insider reformist" voices crying for change.
A Sheep's revolt?
The ultimate public proponent of this elite/masses (insider/outsider) idea is the hard-line and powerful cleric Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi. He once said: It doesnt matter what the people think. The people are ignorant sheep.
For how much longer will the ever-shrinking circle of insiders be able to dominate the lives of a weary public hungry for change? As long as they possess the means of coercive force to do so.
Silent majority
Still, if the silent majority of clerical outsiders join with the frustrated population in reminding the elites or "insiders" that all Iranians are equal before God, it would send a powerful signal to Iran's "insider" autocrats.
Perhaps it helps to read the article below & we can discuss whether it holds true if Muslims are unable to be critical of Islamic Nations yet are critical of western secular governments.
----
http://www.theglobalist.com/DBWeb/S...px?StoryId=2839
Among Shi'a Muslim clerics in Iran, there is a sharp and oft-stated distinction between "elites" and "masses." The elites are religious scholars and clerics.
The simple believer
Certain things may be said in front of these elites but not the masses. These usually involve complex religious discourse, the sort of talk that might "confuse the simple believer.
For how much longer will the ever-shrinking circle of Iran's religious insiders be able to dominate the lives of a weary public hungry for change?
There are also some things that elites might have license to say in public, but the masses do not. For example, a cleric can question the mysteries of God. But a simple believer cannot.
Irans Islamic Republic, borrowing from this tradition, distinguishes between insiders (khodee) and outsiders (gheyreh khodee).
Insiders and outsiders
The insider is a revolutionary who sided with Ayatollah Khomeini and the other religious revolutionaries in overthrowing the Shah, thus excluding the nationalist democrats, secular leftists, Communists, or Islamic Marxists who also played a key role in the revolution.
Today's "insider" is an elite who adheres to the so-called velayat-e-faqih. Literally, this translates as "rule by clerical jurisprudent" the system created by the late Ayatollah Khomeini that gives power to Iran's Shi'a Muslim clergy and supreme power to one senior cleric.
A surprising confession
This distinction between elites and masses or, insiders and outsiders taken to a government level means this: Former President Hashemi Rafsanjani can stand up in front of a crowd of reporters and say openly (and slyly in typical Rafsanjani style), 90 percent of what we do in the Islamic Republic is un-Islamic, and get away with it, as he did.
There are some things that elites might have license to say in public but the masses do not.
If someone else not considered part of the elite "inside" said the same words in front of reporters, there could be serious repercussions.
In fact, most of Iran's clerics and religious scholars are not "insiders." Of the 5,000 Ayatollahs living in Iran, only 80 take part in government.
Most senior clerics view the velayat-e-faqih as an irreligious aberration, though when they say so out loud, the insiders with the help of their "insider" security services swoop on them with house arrest, trial or, in some cases, execution.
Opposing the Shah
The countrys current president, Mohammad Khatami, is also an insider. In the 1970s, he opposed the Shah, supported Khomeini, and later took part in the governing apparatus of the Islamic Republic.
That's why the other insiders allowed him to run for office in the first place in 1997 though they underestimated his reformist tendencies and his appeal to a population eager for more political and social freedoms and tired of revolutionary fervor.
Are you a club member?
The ever sharper struggle between reformists and conservatives that has become the hallmark of contemporary Iranian politics remains, thus far, an insider-only struggle.
90 percent of what we do in the Islamic Republic is un-Islamic. (Former President Hashemi Rafsanjani)
Few outsiders secular nationalists or liberal democrats or opponents of the Islamic Republic have a public voice in the debate. A conservative election supervisory body stymies outsider attempts to run for Irans parliament and presidency thus denying them insiderness.
But President Khatami and other insider reformists have gone too far, or so their conservative opponents complain. Khatami talks too directly to the people, the simple believers.
A true insider?
His insider hard-line critics complain that he confuses the plain folk with these ideas of democracy and civil society. Some whisper that Khatami may not even be a true "insider," that his ideas on democracy seem to go too far, that he may even be guilty of "blasphemy."
Ironically, the population the masses think Khatami has not gone far enough and display impatience with the pace of change.
There is the door
Several former insiders, like the revolutionary-turned-investigative journalist Akbar Ganji, have been booted out of the circle. Mr. Ganji is currently in jail on charges of insulting Islamic sanctities and defaming public officials for his book and articles which criticize what he deems as the religious fascism of conservatives.
It doesnt matter what the people think. The people are ignorant sheep. (Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi)
In todays Iran, the circle of insiders shrinks as the opposition grows. As more reformists speak out vigorously and boldly, conservatives cry betrayal, and yet another insider becomes an outsider.
Fortunately, though, as the circle shrinks, it will become increasingly untenable for the insiders to silence the outsider and "insider reformist" voices crying for change.
A Sheep's revolt?
The ultimate public proponent of this elite/masses (insider/outsider) idea is the hard-line and powerful cleric Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi. He once said: It doesnt matter what the people think. The people are ignorant sheep.
For how much longer will the ever-shrinking circle of insiders be able to dominate the lives of a weary public hungry for change? As long as they possess the means of coercive force to do so.
Silent majority
Still, if the silent majority of clerical outsiders join with the frustrated population in reminding the elites or "insiders" that all Iranians are equal before God, it would send a powerful signal to Iran's "insider" autocrats.
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HumbleSiPilot77
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Bookofknowledge said:why are you asking me this? do you have plans for me
Yes or No?
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HumbleSiPilot77
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Bookofknowledge said:
But I am responsible of what is going on around as I am responsible from my brothers, who says there is no need of my opinion? I am not a moderator but it is everyone's responsibility to keep this place clean. Moving on.
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Bushmaster said:
Yes every human is a cop without uniform... become a moderator before you police on this forum. I told you let him speak of his mind beside that the thread has been deleted so now move on...
You are spreading hatred among those who read your posts and develop opinions with regards to me - this is something which was not said and done by Jesus... If Jesus did this type of things then share it with us.
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Bushmaster said:
None of your business so please move on, there is no need for you to ask me do I want to stay or go...
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Montalban said:
My response is not a reply to your question neither to your OP hence you can kiss your wife or gf or your loved one.... meaning you are free to conclude anything you like.
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this is one of them http://www.ummah.com/forum/ and here's a whole website about it, but these aren't really muslims they just think they are. http://submission.org/Kris_J said:
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