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Musk, Critic of Open Borders, Worked Illegally When Founding First Company

RestoreTheJoy

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The vast majority of illegal immigration in the US is caused by overstaying visas, not crossing the Rio Grande. This is not a problem unique to the United States, it happens in any country that has work visa programs.
No, no, no...not since 2021. Millions just walked over the border. They were most decidedly not "overstaying VISAS".

You cannot conflate the two. Anyone overstaying a VISA has applied legally through the system and has been vetted and granted a VISA in the first place.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Golly! If only they were citizens they could run for president.

But seriously, those are people who are charged here. Your implication seemed to be that they were "violent criminals with records" prior to coming into the country.
Please quote and link the limitation to only violent criminals who have committed crimes since arriving here in the states. I cannot find such a limitation.

As of July 21, there were 13,099 individuals convicted of homicide that are on ICE’s non-detained docket, and 1,845 are on the docket pending homicide charges, according to Lechleitner’s letter.

So what about the other 11,000....somehow in your mind they have been convicted of murders SINCE they walked over the border, when they might have just come in?

That is illogical, and refuted by the letter of the ICE official quoted above:

Lechleitner wrote, saying: “Most noncitizens who are convicted of homicide are typically not eligible for release from ICE custody under Section 236(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act.”
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Isn’t escaping an unjust government that has one arrested for trying to voice opposition to the powers-that-be, exactly what asylum is all about?
Depends on the crime, doesn't it? Arrested as a political prisoner for standing with signs to resist the government? Sure.

Arrested for murder, rape, robbery, assault, arson, etc? Absolutely not and they are supposedly prevented from entering, being ineligible for release.

That policy didn't work out too well for Laken Riley, Rachel Morin, and all the other rape and murder victims.
 
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FireDragon76

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No, no, no...not since 2021. Millions just walked over the border. They were most decidedly not "overstaying VISAS".

You cannot conflate the two. Anyone overstaying a VISA has applied legally through the system and has been vetted and granted a VISA in the first place.

That's the issue, vetting? There is no evidence that illegal immigrants are prone to more violent crime than the general population.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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That's the issue, vetting? There is no evidence that illegal immigrants are prone to more violent crime than the general population.
Irrelevant. You cannot get a Visa without being vetted. You cannot enter another country to stay without being vetted.

Millions cannot simply walk over our borders at all, much less unvetted. It is not safe. Hence all rapes and murders we have been reading about.

It has nothing to do with percentage of crime a group commits. It is a standard that no wise country ignores.
 
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rambot

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Hence all rapes and murders we have been reading about.
Because all of these poor individuals are getting raped and murdered by Americans?
1730408129814.png


1730408176043.png

The mythical tie between immigration and crime
 
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BCP1928

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No, no, no...not since 2021. Millions just walked over the border. They were most decidedly not "overstaying VISAS".
No, they were vetted poorly, but they were let in to relieve the humanitarian crisis that arose from the cartels dumping them in the desert next to the border. Because of the numbers involved, little more was done initially beyond taking names.
You cannot conflate the two. Anyone overstaying a VISA has applied legally through the system and has been vetted and granted a VISA in the first place.
Just like the 9/11 terrorists, all of whom were visa overstays.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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rambot

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Deflection to irrelevancies. Yes, we already know there are criminals in the United States. The problem is in importing more of them, many of whom have acted out since 2021 killing young women.
Sure, if you use the word "many" without any evidence to back anything up you can think anything you want about immigrants. Doesn't make you correct; doesn't make you less prejudice either.

They shouldn't be here at all.
Yes. IT would be great if no criminals existed anywhere wouldn't it?
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Sure, if you use the word "many" without any evidence to back anything up you can think anything you want about immigrants. Doesn't make you correct; doesn't make you less prejudice either.


Yes. IT would be great if no criminals existed anywhere wouldn't it?
Do you not watch the news? How many young women have been killed by migrants who had no business being here, many already out on bond or simply released from other crimes? Laken Riley, Jocelyn Nungaray, Rachel Morin, Jeremy Poou Caceres ( a TWO year old), Lizbeth Medina, Kayla Hamilton....several others. How many is ENOUGH to close the border and force people to immigrate the customary way?

It is wise to pay attention to the news:



 
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rambot

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Do you not watch the news? How many young women have been killed by migrants who had no business being here, many already out on bond or simply released from other crimes? Laken Riley, Jocelyn Nungaray, Rachel Morin, Jeremy Poou Caceres ( a TWO year old), Lizbeth Medina, Kayla Hamilton....several others. How many is ENOUGH to close the border and force people to immigrate the customary way?
Obviously I would rather that nobody was killed period. Seems targetted to only care about people who are killed by illegal migrants but I guess if you believe illegal migrants are inherently more dangerous than anyone else, I would understand why you'd think that.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Obviously I would rather that nobody was killed period. Seems targetted to only care about people who are killed by illegal migrants but I guess if you believe illegal migrants are inherently more dangerous than anyone else, I would understand why you'd think that.
Again, you missed the point entirely. We already have crime here. Why let more criminals pour right in? That's stupid policy.

Could these girls possibly have all been murdered by someone else who was a citizen? Sure, but that's not what happened, and this is directly traceable to the abominable open border policy (and release them even if they are criminals policy) that this Biden Harris administration has foisted upon us.
 
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FireDragon76

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Do you not watch the news? How many young women have been killed by migrants who had no business being here, many already out on bond or simply released from other crimes? Laken Riley, Jocelyn Nungaray, Rachel Morin, Jeremy Poou Caceres ( a TWO year old), Lizbeth Medina, Kayla Hamilton....several others. How many is ENOUGH to close the border and force people to immigrate the customary way?

It is wise to pay attention to the news:




How many children have been killed by citizens of the US who were born here? All you have are anecdotes, not statistics. Statistically, migrants are less likely to commit violent crimes than the general population.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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How many children have been killed by citizens of the US who were born here? All you have are anecdotes, not statistics. Statistically, migrants are less likely to commit violent crimes than the general population.
Your fallacy of relative privation is non-responsive to my statement, which is that importing criminals from other countries should never happen, and most would not be here, but for the abominable open border policy of this Biden Harris administration. These ladies would still be alive but for Biden-Harris.
 
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Fervent

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How many children have been killed by citizens of the US who were born here? All you have are anecdotes, not statistics. Statistically, migrants are less likely to commit violent crimes than the general population.
Are we sure about that? Is that only based on arrest and report data? I'm not saying they are or aren't, but I'm curious how trustworthy statistics are if all we have to go on is reports and arrests. Most violent crime by undocumented immigrants is likely to be against people who aren't likely to report crimes committed against them for one reason or another. So it may not be that they are less likely to commit, but simply that their crimes are less likely to be reported.
 
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Hank77

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Most violent crime by undocumented immigrants is likely to be against people who aren't likely to report crimes committed against them for one reason or another. So it may not be that they are less likely to commit, but simply that their crimes are less likely to be reported.
Could be, but why would US citizens be unlikely to report crimes?
 
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Fervent

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Could be, but why would US citizens be unlikely to report crimes?
Do you believe that undocumented immigrants are more likely to commit crimes within their communities, or outside of them? US citizens might be more likely to report crimes, but are we only worried about crimes against US citizens? Or are we worried about criminal organizations getting a foothold in the US and eventually bringing the very things the people are trying to flee from to our doorstep? The humanitarian concerns are real, but whether or not mass migration is the solution to the problem or if it would be better for us to assist in foreign affairs and help empower people to take back their own countries is a pretty big question. It was, after all, mass migration of the goths that was at least one of the major contributing factors in the fall of Rome. Painting migrants as criminals is certainly not a great look, but pretending that criminality among migrant groups isn't an issue seems myopic to me. That is also not discussing the role that organized crime plays in the coyote operations and how we contribute to their oppression in their home countries by turning a blind eye to these things.
 
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BPPLEE

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Huh, I tried to use the gift link.

...oh, I guess you have to make an account to use the gift link. Thanks, Bezos. :rolleyes:



He was here on a student visa, which has strict rules about being in school and working. He dropped out of school and started working, in violation of the terms of his visa.


Is it okay to enter the country fraudulently for one set of reasons, but not others?
You have a problem with Musk not updating his Visa but no problem with the millions here illegally. This should make you like him more, he was an illegal immigrant, you’re on his side aren’t you?
 
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BPPLEE

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You’re right, I should have worded that differently. Instead of “enter the country,” I should have said “be present in the country.”



So?


Sure, it’s a different offense, but it’s still illegal. It’s still a violation of the rules that so many on the right profess to hold sacrosanct. Why is this better or more moral than playing loosey goosey with an asylum application?
You’re on his side remember, he was an illegal immigrant, he was doing work no American wanted to do, I thought you were an advocate for people like him. Illegal immigrants are less likely to commit crimes and our economy would collapse without them. Have you forgotten all this?
 
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