Murder by prayer ?

[The Nihilist]

According to the OP yes they justify it but it is not justified according to the majority of christians or then why would not the majority practice that and never go to the doctors? Historically i evidenced it to you and also biblically you never came up with any proof that Chist denies medical suport Nihilist so your call since you are the one suporting this Not mine. Not a shread of evidence Christianity or in the Bible that medical attentance is forbitten.

The Kingdom of God is not a democracy. The will of the majority plays no role in theology.
Medicine is hardly forbidden, but if miracles can be performed, then it is unnecessary. Because the couple believed God would provide them with a miracle because of their strong faith, then they believed medicine was unnecessary. Their actions were not out of line with biblical teaching.

 

[The Nihilist]

That is not what is says !!

Also another example would be the good samaritan... The priest takes him to the inn to take care of his wounds with oil and wine .... God praises him for doing so ... Why would God praises him if he ONLY needed to pray for him? That parable is a good example of God instructing taking care of a a stranger why would he not want us to give medical care to our child?

The Bible has many other such examples

She apparently believes in little miracles, the kind that are indistinguishable from chance. Jesus performed great miracles, impossible miracles, and neither of you seems to believe in these. The couple in the OP acted foolishly, but they have more faith than most people I've ever met.

 

[dizzielizzie]

Parents 'murdered daughter by prayer' - Times Online

An American couple have been convicted of murder for praying for their 11-year -old dauther's healing rather than seeking medical help. When Madeline Neumann collapsed from undiagnosed diabetes, eher parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, began to prayer for God to intervene and save their daughter. They refused to call an ambulance. Dale Neuman is a former student of a Pentecostal Bible college. He and his wife will be sentenced in October.

That's quite a twist on a title, isn't it? Prayer is not the issue here. It's the negligence of the parents to provide medical treatment to their child who was ill.

 

[nolongerhome]

That's quite a twist on a title, isn't it? Prayer is not the issue here. It's the negligence of the parents to provide medical treatment to their child who was ill.

How can you say that prayer is not the issue here?

The parents were negligent and chose not to provide medical treatment to their ill child because, instead, they chose to put their faith in prayer.

Prayer didn't murder the child, but it was their belief in prayer that led the child's parents to follow their negligent course of action.

 

[Washington]

That's quite a twist on a title, isn't it?
Prayer is not the issue here. It's the negligence of the parents to provide medical treatment to their child who was ill.

It's certainly one of the issues. It's the alternative the parents chose over medical help.

 

[Philothei]

The Kingdom of God is not a democracy. The will of the majority plays no role in theology.
Medicine is hardly forbidden, but if miracles can be performed, then it is unnecessary. Because the couple believed God would provide them with a miracle because of their strong faith, then they believed medicine was unnecessary. Their actions were not out of line with biblical teaching.

You sound like a theologian But in all honesty what you say you fail to still evidence..
Anyhow for what is worth here it goes...

I have no clue what the democracy has to do with prayer...here

God acts of free will and of love not by "order" or us fullfilling the "obligation" of prayer...It is not a cause and effect. We pray He delivers. The heart has lots to do with prayer. We can pray mechanically but " a contrite heart is what God will not despise" .... So predisposition in prayer is a big part of prayer.

what? the will of majority plays no role? Maybe we should revisit what Christ says that wherever two or three are gathered in his name so he is in the middle of them??? Is that a "lot of people"? the majority? or is it just one person? I think he is talking about a group...

You say that medicine is NOT forbitten (thanks for adminting to it) but then that negates the miracles... NOpe it does not miracles were performed by Christ and the Apostles not because He (Christ) or the Apostles had to prove we need no medicine...(LOL) that would be absurd as for fact God did not need to prove he was above medicine...They were guidposts for those weak in faith about God. To show that God's grace was indeed present in the world. Christ did perform miracles to show that he indeed was who He claimed that was. He was the Son of God. Also this life is temporary. Example as to that Christ's miracles did not have only physical significance but were consened with the Eschaton(last days) is the resurrection of Lazarus...why raise him if he was going to die in the fuuture another biological death anyways? The point was not to show that he saved a specific person but showing that God has power over death as per Christ's saying why people were born with diseases...His answer was so that the name of God be glorified. That despite the difficulties people still chose life over death and the people who are handicup still live to the glorification of God. Christ did many miracles but he did not heal ALL humanity from physical disease that tells us that although He could he did not..The examples we see in the bible are not ALL He did either as it says that is not all the miracles He did but still the purpose is not so that we do not seek medical help....

Yeah sadly the couple's decision was out of line as yet there is no absolute example that Chist's miracles point to us not using our common sense.. why then he praised the good samaritan that took the beaten man to the inn? Why the good samaritan did not ONLY prayed about the man but he took care fo his wounds? You still have not answered about this parable...still waiting...

 

[Philothei]

She apparently believes in little miracles, the kind that are indistinguishable from chance.

How she does that? So did the good samaritan then.... he did treat the man's wounds did he? he did not believe in miracles? helping someone's wounds negates a miracle? how?

Jesus performed great miracles, impossible miracles, and neither of you seems to believe in these. The couple in the OP acted foolishly, but they have more faith than most people I've ever met.

Christ did and the Apostles did performed great miracles we do not doubt they happened. How that proves we do not believe them? hardly. Does the faith of Peter who was sinking while walking into the water smaller? or bigger?

how can the couple be foulish and at the same time had faith...The couple misinterpet the Biblical command for faith...

 

[The Nihilist]

How she does that? So did the good samaritan then.... he did treat the man's wounds did he? he did not believe in miracles? helping someone's wounds negates a miracle? how?



Christ did and the Apostles did performed great miracles we do not doubt they happened. How that proves we do not believe them? hardly. Does the faith of Peter who was sinking while walking into the water smaller? or bigger?

how can the couple be foulish and at the same time had faith...The couple misinterpet the Biblical command for faith...

Philothei, this is fun, but I can't argue with you anymore. You're arguing against stuff I didn't say, which makes fruitful discussion impossible.

 

[Nathan45]

Parents 'murdered daughter by prayer' - Times Online

An American couple have been convicted of murder for praying for their 11-year -old dauther's healing rather than seeking medical help. When Madeline Neumann collapsed from undiagnosed diabetes, eher parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, began to prayer for God to intervene and save their daughter. They refused to call an ambulance. Dale Neuman is a former student of a Pentecostal Bible college. He and his wife will be sentenced in October.

I think its sick, but these people don't belong in jail. If they have other children, put them into protective custody but prison is for violent dangerous criminals not for stupid saps tricked by religious fantaticism.

They're not a danger to anyone else, the fact that their daughter is dead should be enough of a deterrant for anyone else who would try this. they should have learned their lesson already so sending them to prison solves nothing.

 

[Washington]

I think its sick, but these people don't belong in jail.

Well, it will certainly send a message to others to think twice about relying on faith alone in such a situation. And maybe that's reason enough to put them away.

They're not a danger to anyone else, the fact that their daughter is dead should be enough of a deterrent for anyone else who would try this.

I wouldn't put any money on that. After all, the phrase "it was god's will" readily springs to mind as an escape clause to those who may be thinking along similar lines: "It won't happen to my little deary."

 

[Nathan45]

I wouldn't put any money on that. After all, the phrase "it was god's will" readily springs to mind as an escape clause to those who may be thinking along similar lines: "It won't happen to my little deary."

if they're this far gone i don't see why jail time would be a deterrent, either. that's just going to kick the persecution complex up a notch.