(moved) United Church of Canada responds to atheist minister

[redleghunter]

Well, as a matter of fact, she should never have been allowed to be a minister in the first place. But the UCC departed from Bible truth about 100 years ago. This is just icing on the cake.

Yes this is the end result of the heresy of 'process theology' and liberalism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_theology

 

[MennoSota]

"having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people."
2 Timothy 3:5

 

[redleghunter]

I'm not getting why Atheist would want to teach something. They don't believe in.

Precisely. The minister has a motive.

 

[Arcangl86]

Yes this is the end result of the heresy of 'process theology' and liberalism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_theology

What indication do you have that this has to do with Process theology?

 

[redleghunter]

What indication do you have that this has to do with Process theology?

A tenet of Process theology is God is not immutable. Meaning God can change along with changes of human understanding.

These liberal churches chuck out things they don't like from the Bible or catechism or both and chalk it up as progress.

For example the UCC allows open and practicing homosexuality, gay "marriage" abortion, and sees this as progress. Thus

 

[Arcangl86]

A tenet of Process theology is God is not immutable. Meaning God can change along with changes of human understanding.

These liberal churches chuck out things they don't like from the Bible or catechism or both and chalk it up as progress.

For example the UCC allows open and practicing homosexuality, gay "marriage" abortion, and sees this as progress. Thus

So that's a no.

 

[timewerx]

United Church of Canada responds to atheist minister

By Allison Barron ChristianWeek Correspondent | September 2, 2015


TORONTO, ON—An ordained minister of the United Church of Canada (UCC) recently stated that she believes in neither God nor the Bible. Gretta Vosper, minister of West Hill United Church, says that how you live is more important than what you believe.

“The belief that the Bible is the authoritative word of God is one such presupposition that must be let go if we are going to seek the truth,” Vosper writes in her book, With or Without God: Why the Way We Live Is More Important Than What We Believe.

The majority of her congregation supported her views until a decision to remove the Lord’s Prayer from the service in 2008 prompted two thirds of the congregation to leave. The remaining members of the congregation support her.

David W. Allen, Executive Secretary of the Toronto Conference of the UCC, says there is no single reaction to what Vosper is saying, either within the UCC or outside of it.

“Some people find her refreshing and candid, and have expressed appreciation for the care they have received from her and the West Hill United Church congregation,” says Allen. “Others, though, have expressed serious doubts about how a minister can say some of the things she says about God and Jesus, and still function as a minister within the church.”

Allen recognizes that this is a stressful time for Vosper and many others—no matter where they stand on what she says. He encourages those who are invested in the matter to maintain thoughts and/or prayers for Vosper and also for the United Church of Canada.

“My hope is that at the end of the process, we’ll have a good reason for maintaining her as a minister – or we’ll have a good reason for saying she is not to continue in that role,” says Allen. “What we have not done is to pre-judge the outcome and we, like many others, await the recommendations that will eventually come to us.”

The Toronto Conference initiated a review of Vosper, which she has appealed using the process outlined by the UCC’s General Secretary. The Toronto Conference has suspended the review until the results of the appeal are known, anticipating the outcome sometime this fall.

http://www.christianweek.org/united-church-of-canada-responds-to-atheist-minister/

My brain just did a 360 inside my head.

Perhaps unicorns are real, who knows!

 

[jimmyjimmy]

It's just as odd to me that many folks in mainline churches in the US spend Sunday mornings in church rather than on the golf course, as many of them have progressivly tossed out much or all of the essentials of the faith.

 

[Uncle Siggy]

If not.....

You know that seems to be a common occurrence in todays world...

 

[Uncle Siggy]

If some pastor or professor is biting their tongue and not leaving that probably means they like the income and power/prestige.

Bingo!!

 

[Uncle Siggy]

Perhaps some government anti-discrimination law is preventing removal. Canada does not have the free exercise of religion as in the US. I believe government heavily regulates what the churches can and cannot do.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/can_rel4.htm

 

[Uncle Siggy]

Seems the motivation for this UCC minister is she does not want to let go of her congregation even though she is leading it astray.

Those "Fifty Centers" sure get around...

 

[MennoSota]

Or they have literally no other saleable skillset they can appeal to.

Imagine you spend your entire life studying to be a rainbow factory salesman. You go to college for it, get a really great job selling rainbows at the rainbow factory, and build your life based on that income...

...And then you realize that the rainbow factory is a scam. Can you just stop? How? All of your skills are related to the specifics of the rainbow factory and rainbow farming. You'll lose your job, and have trouble finding anything similar, because there are virtually no jobs outside this particular field that require that kind of skillset, and nobody in the field is gonna take you.

This is why the Clergy Project exists. That said, I see no reason why an atheist should be incapable of spreading the Gospel. After all, if Ted Haggard can do it...

Is the Rainbow Factory a part of the Human Rights Campaign propaganda department? [emoji304]

 

[expos4ever]

Canada does not have the free exercise of religion as in the US.

I live in Canada and I think this assertion is simply not true. I know of no sense in which the free exercise of religion is limited in Canada except, of course, where such free exercise breaks the law of the land (just as in the USA).

I believe government heavily regulates what the churches can and cannot do.

I think you are mistaken about this.

 

[redleghunter]

So that's a no.

That God is not immutable? That is a basic tenet of Process theology. Employed here now by an atheist minister of a supposed Christian denomination.

 

[redleghunter]

That said, I see no reason why an atheist should be incapable of spreading the Gospel. After all, if Ted Haggard can do it...

Did I miss the sarcasm tag? How can an atheist spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ when believing Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Risen Lord and Savior is the center of the Gospel?

Would that not be akin to Bill Clinton giving classes on prevention of sexual harassment and assault?

 

[redleghunter]

I live in Canada and I think this assertion is simply not true. I know of no sense in which the free exercise of religion is limited in Canada except, of course, where such free exercise breaks the law of the land (just as in the USA).


I think you are mistaken about this.

Perhaps I am mistaken. However, religious organizations do not need a special religious permit to hold a religious concert as they do in Toronto. We just get a permit.

Toronto bans music festival from city square over Christian songs

TORONTO, October 29, 2015 (LifeSiteNews) -- The City of Toronto is refusing to grant a Christian group a permit to use a prominent downtown square for its annual musical festival next year, because the city has decided that singing the name of Jesus in the public venue contravenes city policy against “proselytizing.”

Voices of the Nations (VON) has been using city property since 2006 for an annual “multi denominational” event in which it celebrates Christianity through live music and dance. It has been using the Yonge-Dundas Square without issue for the past five years. This year’s August 1 event attracted 19 different performance acts, including children’s choirs and popular Christian bands, where well-known ‘praise-and-worship’ songs such as “Days Of Elijah” are performed.

When VON’s Events Coordinator Leye Oyelani contacted the Square’s Manager of Events Natalie Belman last week by phone to apply for next year’s permit, he was told that a permit would not be issued and to look for a venue elsewhere.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/toronto-bans-music-festival-from-city-square-over-christian-songs

However, as fellow Christians we would have to compare how in practice we truly have freedom of religious expression.

Can you go into a park without a permit, set up a podium or stand on a soapbox and starting preaching the Gospel freely? By the article above, at least in Toronto you cannot.

Then we see the double standard in Canada and most of Europe. On the one hand they will regulate Christian musicians who sing songs about Jesus Christ is Savior (what else would Christians want to sing about? Buddha?) and claim it breaks a proselytization ordnance, yet in the same space other religions openly use the public square. And then creating special ordnances to protect other more vocal religions like Islam in the name of keeping the peace.

Explained somewhat here:

Shut up and play nice: How the Western world is limiting free speech

Other Western nations routinely bar forms of speech considered hateful. Britain prohibits any “abusive or insulting words” meant “to stir up racial hatred.” Canada outlaws “any writing, sign or visible representation” that “incites hatred against any identifiable group.” These laws ban speech based not only on its content but on the reaction of others. Speakers are often called to answer for their divisive or insulting speech before bodies like the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal.

This month, a Canadian court ruled that Marc Lemire, the webmaster of a far-right political site, could be punished for allowing third parties to leave insulting comments about homosexuals and blacks on the site. Echoing the logic behind blasphemy laws, Federal Court Justice Richard Mosley ruled that “the minimal harm caused . . . to freedom of expression is far outweighed by the benefit it provides to vulnerable groups and to the promotion of equality.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...573bd4-116d-11e2-a16b-2c110031514a_story.html

 

[expos4ever]

Perhaps I am mistaken. However, religious organizations do not need a special religious permit to hold a religious concert as they do in Toronto. We just get a permit.....

I do not doubt your finding. All I know is that I have actively participated in the church here in Canada for decades - including participation in public proclamations of the gospel - and I have never been restrained by law. I will agree that, in all likelihood, you are more "free" in the USA. But any legal constraints on the "reasonable" public expression of faith here in Canada are, I believe quite minimal indeed.

 

[Uncle Siggy]

Would that not be akin to Bill Clinton giving classes on prevention of sexual harassment and assault?

Prevention or "How to"? (I think the later would be more appropriate considering all the stories I've heard about Bubba)...

 

[Uncle Siggy]

Confusing world you atheists with your subjective morals or lack thereof created.

If I'm not mistaken mans morals are based on the Ten Commandments, but for some reason some people think they are smarter than who created them, go figure... (And they call their version of morality........ Freedom!!!)