[MOVED] This is all a simulated world reality that does not exist apart from us

Kaon · Dec 27, 2019

Tone said:
snip

Part of being able to do all of this comes when we are able to entertain everything without necessarily accepting it. It also comes when we denounce human headship/authority over other humans - because you cannot fathom something beyond this if you buckle under the social pressure that comes with the perception of being "crazy".

This is as simple as I can explain it - which is a statement about my communication, perhaps (not your ability to decipher what I said).

Humans have a problem with logic - we extol it too much. The only way we can escape repetitive intellectual degeneracy is to understand we know nothing. (I am sure people have heard this seemingly esoteric saying before.) This is because if you believe, for example, c is the speed limit, you will be surprised when you find a tachyon in nature. Think about how much intellectual time was would have been wasted, then: all of the times those people who knew about tachyons doubted themselves because they trusted the systems they knew instead of their own mind. Or, just think about the overall progress lost: 20 years of scientific advancement is like 100 years of progress. Logic and reason holds us back from understanding the entirety of reality. They both have a purpose: to alleviate the psychological pressure on us upon realizing we are ignorant. We use logic and reason to wrangle and bound reality - at least for our own psyche. Our minds have to be as open as the expanse of heaven in order to have a chance to understand reality.

In fact, reality is neither logical nor reasonable on this plane of existence. There is a reality, however, where peace, truth and love are the metrics for understanding and success.

Those "other" realities aren't logical, particularly because logic is a human construct for processing and discerning information, patterns and future events.

Logic is what we use to help us make decisions, and draw inferences. It works, but it is an antiquated school of thought that was spawned around the same time humans needed religion to tell them right from wrong. It is a very basic mental tool in navigating reality as we know it. I am saying if we can understand an atom can be split, we are too advanced to be using logic and reason as a means to understand reality around us - that is why I said we are flying before we crawl. Our intellectual priorities have always been backward, and our psychology applied to it has always been skewed.

When we scoff at anything, we are actually wasting time to take action. What usually happens? Decades later we find out truth is stranger than fiction in many instances. All of these things are programmed into us, and must be deprogrammed. Deprogramming leaves you open to reprogramming - which is why you should trust Someone who is Worth (in your opinion) your life here and after. For some people it is a god, a man, Ego, science, etc. Who we choose to trust with our lives here and after determines our overall ability to navigate this plane of existence properly.

I'd like to quote this ^ in another thread, if that's alright?

Sure.

Neogaia777 · Dec 27, 2019

Cis.jd said:
Many people do have these ideas. The whole "we're living in the matrix".

I do recall reading a christian version of this somewhere in the internet where we are living in the dream of the Son (or was it the Father)? Physics (or mathematics in general) does make it look like we are living in a program due to how the behind the visual interface is a code/language that makes everything work. It's pretty much like predestination but on scientific terms.

There are non-theistic theories that you may have heard from deGresse Tyson too about multiple universes and how there is another version of you somewhere. It's kinda a funny how "science" is somewhat talking about things we considered fiction and making it sound so realistic that atheist fanboys just ride on this stuff all of a sudden (such hypocrisy if you ask me).

I say, wondering if life is like the Truman show or the Matrix, or whatever.. these things will make your head explode. Stick to what the Church teaches because it has passed down what the Apostles taught.the Apostles creed is all the "supernatural" that you need to believe, don't overload yourself with things you won't be able to have confirmation on.

But it's fun for me, I enjoy the mental stretching and workouts, and I can always take breaks, and do, whenever I like, so...

And I always try to do my best to not forget the "foundation", etc, and always remind myself of the plain and simple truths or foundational principles of scripture and the gospels and gospel message all the time...

But sometimes I just like to just "stretch myself a little bit" sometimes though, (but not too much sometimes, and I take breaks and do things to relax as well) anyway, and I like to talk with other people about these things, and this seems to one of the only places I can actually do that, etc, not many people actually like to talk about this stuff out there in the world, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Daniel9v9 · Dec 27, 2019

Putting the obvious Matrix tinfoil hat notion aside, it sounds like the OP presents an idea that has a high view of the spiritual and a low view of the physical. That is, a kind of belief that man is essentially a soul trapped in a body; that the soul or spirit of man is truly what is man, and the body is merely a shell or exterior. If this is the case, that would be Gnosticism, which was condemned as heresy both in the NT by Christ Himself and by the early Church. When God made man, He made man in His own image, as body and soul. And in the creeds, we confess a belief that, in the resurrection, we are raised in our bodies.

Another point, the OP compares reality to a game and how environments are loaded in games. I work as an Art Director in the games industry so this is very familiar territory for me, and I think there many useful examples we can draw from games and games development that we can use to explain God's grace and His creation. However, on this particular point, I have to disagree, because environments in games are loaded modularly and with different levels of details because of hardware limitations. God has no limitations and He has defined the limitations of nature by natural law. It's written that He created all things in six days, and not that He streams in assets wherever people may look or wander, for what possible reason or function would it serve? Why would anyone force a framework like this on Scriptures in the first place? It doesn't fit or belong in Scriptures, nor known science, and such an idea would only appear in the last 5 minutes of humanity. The bottom line is, we can rest assured that everything we see is real, because God created it as a physical and objective reality that exists outside of ourselves; a world where He was even pleased to take on our flesh, suffer, die for our sins, and raise to life, that whoever believes in the name of Jesus Christ may have life.

Just as a disclaimer, yes, I believe in a visible and an invisible realm, and that God exists outside of time and space.

Kaon · Dec 27, 2019

Daniel9v9 said:
Putting the obvious Matrix tinfoil hat notion aside, it sounds like the OP presents an idea that has a high view of the spiritual and a low view of the physical. That is, a kind of belief that man is essentially a soul trapped in a body; that the soul or spirit of man is truly what is man, and the body is merely a shell or exterior. If this is the case, that would be Gnosticism, which was condemned as heresy both in the NT by Christ Himself and by the early Church. When God made man, He made man in His own image, as body and soul. And in the creeds, we confess a belief that, in the resurrection, we are raised in our bodies.

Where did Christ Himself condemn Gnostic texts as heresy?

Daniel9v9 · Dec 27, 2019

Kaon said:
Where did Christ Himself condemn Gnostic texts as heresy?

Revelation 2, where He condemns the Nicolaitans, who were Gnostics.

Neogaia777 · Dec 27, 2019

Daniel9v9 said:
Putting the obvious Matrix tinfoil hat notion aside, it sounds like the OP presents an idea that has a high view of the spiritual and a low view of the physical. That is, a kind of belief that man is essentially a soul trapped in a body; that the soul or spirit of man is truly what is man, and the body is merely a shell or exterior. If this is the case, that would be Gnosticism, which was condemned as heresy both in the NT by Christ Himself and by the early Church. When God made man, He made man in His own image, as body and soul. And in the creeds, we confess a belief that, in the resurrection, we are raised in our bodies.

Another point, the OP compares reality to a game and how environments are loaded in games. I work as an Art Director in the games industry so this is very familiar territory for me, and I think there many useful examples we can draw from games and games development that we can use to explain God's grace and His creation. However, on this particular point, I have to disagree, because environments in games are loaded modularly and with different levels of details because of hardware limitations. God has no limitations and He has defined the limitations of nature by natural law. It's written that He created all things in six days, and not that He streams in assets wherever people may look or wander, for what possible reason or function would it serve? Why would anyone force a framework like this on Scriptures in the first place? It doesn't fit or belong in Scriptures, nor known science, and such an idea would only appear in the last 5 minutes of humanity. The bottom line is, we can rest assured that everything we see is real, because God created it as a physical and objective reality that exists outside of ourselves; a world where He was even pleased to take on our flesh, suffer, die for our sins, and raise to life, that whoever believes in the name of Jesus Christ may have life.

Just as a disclaimer, yes, I believe in a visible and an invisible realm, and that God exists outside of time and space.

You don't think God, or the Kingdom of God, or the Heavenly Realm "transcends" or goes way, way "above and beyond" this that we know of as reality here...?

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Dec 27, 2019

Daniel9v9 said:
Revelation 2, where He condemns the Nicolaitans, who were Gnostics.

How am I a "Gnostic", or am being a "Gnostic", or are spreading a "Gnostic heresy", etc...?

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Dec 27, 2019

Daniel9v9 said:
Just as a disclaimer, yes, I believe in a visible and an invisible realm, and that God exists outside of time and space.

Which would make "this" then, "what" in comparison...?

Kaon · Dec 27, 2019

Daniel9v9 said:
Revelation 2, where He condemns the Nicolaitans, who were Gnostics.

You don't think Christ was deriding the Nicolaitans because they lived like harlots, and claimed they could sin freely since the Law of the Most High is no longer applicable?

We are supposed to know these entities by culture - that they were the type to absolutely assault the Christians that were going around preaching obedience and restraint - of which the Nicolaitans practiced neither. We know the Christ does not promote lawlessness, and spirits of confusion or indulgence.

On the other hand, we know that there are so many things the Christ said that it couldn't even fill the libraries of this plane of existence. Gnosticism means knowledge, which is why the Nicolaitans were called "gnostics" in a cynical way - to highlight their heresy (specifically, about the Law of the Most High, and defiling the spirit through luxuries).

What Man has the authority to tell other humans what is "nutritious" for spiritual consumption? There is only One Man who has the authority to tell any of us what is good for spiritual consumption; we have to do the mature work of discerning between truth and lies - not letting other humans do it for us. The disciples spread the word; they did not control it.

DamianWarS · Dec 27, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
Well, we are made in His image and likeness, right...? and as we are finding out more and more how things work "there", and that they are not that much different from how the deepest recesses of our subconscious minds work here, then it would make sense if it (or this) was preparation for there then, etc, wouldn't it maybe...?

IDK...? What do you think...?

And as long as we are humble and do not get puffed up by any of this, then even if it were ever fully realized or actualized by any one of us right now, it still would not be "wrong" or be a sin, as long as were not all puffed up about it, or prancing around like peacocks, etc, about it, so to speak, etc...

Right...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

In this metaphysical reality you present there would be no sin there is only what you invent and sin is just a projected state from our mind but doesn't actually exist. I see it more productive to look at the world with real interactions and consequences then to look at it as all part of our mind. In our mind we are king so we need to view our environment where we are not the most important thing and we are accountable for our actions.

Daniel9v9 · Dec 27, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
You don't think God, or the Kingdom of God, or the Heavenly Realm "transcends" or goes way, way "above and beyond" this that we know of as reality here...?

God Bless!

Yes, I do, but that's not the point I was raising. I was talking about the relationship between the physical and the spiritual.

Neogaia777 said:
How am I a "Gnostic", or am being a "Gnostic", or are spreading a "Gnostic heresy", etc...?

God Bless!

I'm not calling you a Gnostic, for I'm not sure what you're intending, but this phrase "... that which "truly contains what we are" or our consciousnesses, etc ..." is questionable to me, for the reasons already stated. That is, as if the spiritual is what's real, and the physical is merely a shell or exterior of lesser value. Or again, as if man is a soul trapped in a physical body, and it's the soul that is the man proper. Scriptures say otherwise, that man is created with both body and soul (or flesh and breath).

Neogaia777 said:
Which would make "this" then, "what" in comparison...?

I only mentioned this as a disclaimer in case anyone should assume that I don't believe in a spiritual realm.

Neogaia777 · Dec 28, 2019

DamianWarS said:
In this metaphysical reality you present there would be no sin there is only what you invent and sin is just a projected state from our mind but doesn't actually exist. I see it more productive to look at the world with real interactions and consequences then to look at it as all part of our mind. In our mind we are king so we need to view our environment where we are not the most important thing and we are accountable for our actions.

Well, I don't see it that way, knowing that their is a much better higher realm of reality where God dwells, that makes this one pale in comparison, gives me hope, and gets me excited and makes me only want to, well, only "work" (to obey) that much harder to get in there or go there when I die, or after I die, etc, (or Jesus comes back, etc)...

But I can understand your point of view I guess, but I just don't share it, etc...

I find absolutely no hope most of the time in this realm of this or these kinds or realities, etc, I guess you could say my sights are continually set on Heaven, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Dec 28, 2019

Daniel9v9 said:
Yes, I do, but that's not the point I was raising. I was talking about the relationship between the physical and the spiritual.

I'm not calling you a Gnostic, for I'm not sure what you're intending, but this phrase "... that which "truly contains what we are" or our consciousnesses, etc ..." is questionable to me, for the reasons already stated. That is, as if the spiritual is what's real, and the physical is merely a shell or exterior of lesser value. Or again, as if man is a soul trapped in a physical body, and it's the soul that is the man proper. Scriptures say otherwise, that man is created with both body and soul (or flesh and breath).

I only mentioned this as a disclaimer in case anyone should assume that I don't believe in a spiritual realm.

The spiritual is more real and superior...

And our spirits are what we "actually are", etc, contains that which makes us, "us", or truly conscious, or self-aware, when we are aware of that, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Daniel9v9 · Dec 28, 2019

Kaon said:
You don't think Christ was deriding the Nicolaitans because they lived like harlots, and claimed they could sin freely since the Law of the Most High is no longer applicable?

We are supposed to know these entities by culture - that they were the type to absolutely assault the Christians that were going around preaching obedience and restraint - of which the Nicolaitans practiced neither. We know the Christ does not promote lawlessness, and spirits of confusion or indulgence.

On the other hand, we know that there are so many things the Christ said that it couldn't even fill the libraries of this plane of existence. Gnosticism means knowledge, which is why the Nicolaitans were called "gnostics" in a cynical way - to highlight their heresy (specifically, about the Law of the Most High, and defiling the spirit through luxuries).

What Man has the authority to tell other humans what is "nutritious" for spiritual consumption? There is only One Man who has the authority to tell any of us what is good for spiritual consumption; we have to do the mature work of discerning between truth and lies - not letting other humans do it for us. The disciples spread the word; they did not control it.

Yes, but Gnosticism is very broad and they essentially considered the spiritual as good and the material as evil, and had a number of obscure ideas about God, from which all their evil practices or antinomian tendencies flowed. They twisted God's Word with their secret "gnosis" or "knowledge".

You can find some mentions of the early Church on Wikipedia:
Nicolaism - Wikipedia

Cis.jd · Dec 28, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
But it's fun for me, I enjoy the mental stretching and workouts, and I can always take breaks, and do, whenever I like, so...

And I always try to do my best to not forget the "foundation", etc, and always remind myself of the plain and simple truths or foundational principles of scripture and the gospels and gospel message all the time...

But sometimes I just like to just "stretch myself a little bit" sometimes though, (but not too much sometimes, and I take breaks and do things to relax as well) anyway, and I like to talk with other people about these things, and this seems to one of the only places I can actually do that, etc, not many people actually like to talk about this stuff out there in the world, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

I get it, but it is a slippery slope. Believe me, I too can't resist thinking about these things but they do result in going almost crazy. You think you are just pleasuring your imaginations but in reality you are slowly putting questions for yourself.

I can't deny that I had days where I wondered, is God really a personal god or some director in where my life is some aliens entertainment.

Kaon · Dec 28, 2019

Daniel9v9 said:
Yes, but Gnosticism is very broad and they essentially considered the spiritual as good and the material as evil, and had a number of obscure ideas about God, from which all their evil practices or antinomian tendencies flowed. They twisted God's Word with their secret "gnosis" or "knowledge".

You can find some mentions of the early Church on Wikipedia:
Nicolaism - Wikipedia

Indeed, like Christianity gnosticism is broad.

The books I have read do not in any way marginalize the Christ, or suggest that our evil comes from the Most High. On the contrary, they exalt the Christ as the First Man above all others except for the Most High, and makes mention that our evil comes from a very complicated series of events caused by [the creation of] a demiurge (what some call "Satan"). Even, they mention that the Christ specifically provided a Way for all chosen from the foundations to escape the ignorance of this demiurge - so that we are not consequences of our flesh.

I absolutely get why some followers of Gnosticism believe the things they do. But, like Christian denominations, some people listen to what others say and follow them, some just can't make sense of it but try to actively apply it.

DamianWarS · Dec 28, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
Well, I don't see it that way, knowing that their is a much better higher realm of reality where God dwells, that makes this one pale in comparison, gives me hope, and gets me excited and makes me only want to, well, only "work" (to obey) that much harder to get in there or go there when I die, or after I die, etc, (or Jesus comes back, etc)...

But I can understand your point of view I guess, but I just don't share it, etc...

I find absolutely no hope most of the time in this realm of this or these kinds or realities, etc, I guess you could say my sights are continually set on Heaven, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

your insights would suggest there is no heaven or God beyond which our mind invents. The bible speaks of creation as thriving and able to thrive without our existence so rejecting this sort of concrete and plentiful existence is rejecting the environment God has created for us. If you still believe there is a God and that God is not you then how do you get to pick which is of your mind and which is separate from your mind?

Neogaia777 · Dec 28, 2019

DamianWarS said:
your insights would suggest there is no heaven or God beyond which our mind invents. The bible speaks of creation as thriving and able to thrive without our existence so rejecting this sort of concrete and plentiful existence is rejecting the environment God has created for us. If you still believe there is a God and that God is not you then how do you get to pick which is of your mind and which is separate from your mind?

Your not getting what I am saying at all, not even in the slightest, we are not God or even gods even, just beings made in the image of God, and God is the "ultimate observer" in all of this, etc. And, beyond that, Master Creator and Programmer or Designer, which we are most definitely not, etc...

Now really, come on now, you actually think that I think I am God or something? You should know I don't think that at all, etc, and I am "offended" that you would even say that or suggest that about me or even say that to me, etc...? And we create or make Heaven or God? No, just "no", OK...

Really, come on now man, really?

Anyway, we are just beings created to be like God, but not even close to being God Himself, or rather we are beings created to experience "reality" the way He does, etc, but are not gods, and most definitely not God Himself, etc, but we are only made to (eventually) experience reality the way He does, etc, only he both designed and made it/them, which we did not and do not do, but only experience it the way that He can and does, etc...We do not create (Heaven or God or whatever) only experience...

Anyhow, I'm offended by what you said though, hurts me and hurts me a lot cause I definitely don't think that at all, etc...

You've got me all wrong, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

solid_core · Dec 28, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
This is all a simulated world reality that does not exist apart from us (and God, or the gods) as the "observers", or "players", etc, as I'm going to talk about and use as an example video games that are simulated worlds or realities as an very primitive example, etc...

In certain video games, you, as the player, are the only thing that is truly "real" in it, etc, or, as it relates to this world, or our world, our "spirits", or consciousnesses, are the only thing really real in it, and nothing else is really real in it, this is evidenced by the fact that nothing really exists without or apart from the observer observing it, etc, in the very moments that they are observing it, etc, and then it is all "filled in" at that point, just like a simulated world or reality would be in say, a video game, etc...

The reality is stored as numbers or a program and things are in or appear to in any number of places, etc, until you are in it and/or are observing things in it, and/or moving around and/or observing and/or playing in it, etc, then it is "filled in", etc... and while you can see this and know this in a video game very clearly, it's not as obvious in this or the reality we are in right now, cause it all happens instantly and instantaneously, etc, but many things, especially in the quantum world, are telling us this, as we try to make sense of it (the quantum world), etc...

I think we are seeing what we are seeing in the quantum world because this is very much a simulated reality and is not really "real", etc, and there is something even "more real" "beyond this", etc, and that there is something in us, that is more real than this or goes beyond all of "this" also, etc, like our "katra" or our spirits, etc, or that which "truly contains what we are" or our consciousnesses, etc...

Especially since things do not seem to exist apart from our input or observing it/them, etc, then they just kind of "pop into place or become so in that spot at that time, etc, and before that appears to be in all and of any kinds of places and/or positions, etc, until we actually observe and/or turn our focus or gaze or attention to it or them, etc, then it is, in that instant, it is all of the sudden "there", where we are expecting it to be, etc, and then when we turn away, it is not again, etc, until we look or see or hear, (or smell or whatever), then it is "again", etc, and then not again not when we are not again, etc...

Anyway, we know this in and from simulated worlds and or realities we create, so why can't it be true of this world or reality, that is a program or simulated reality made and/or created and/or designed by something and someone else far "higher" or far greater or a people way far more "advanced" than we are, etc...? Way far more advanced than we are, etc...?

Do you think what we are seeing in the quantum realm or world is telling us more and more that this world or physical reality could actually be kind of like a simulated world or reality or not...?

Discuss...?

God Bless!

Living in a simulation or not, we know that we experience and think. Therefore we exist. And we know we did not create ourselves, so there must be our creator.

Therefore, the fabric of our reality does not matter so much to basic theology. And if we live in a simulation and our "programmers" live in a simulation and their programmers in a simulation... in the end, there is the true uncreated God in whom everything exists and takes place. This God controls everything. And this God is whom I worship and trust in.

So, the simulation hypothesis just makes the chain longer, but changes nothing important.

DamianWarS · Dec 28, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
Your not getting what I am saying at all, not even in the slightest, we are not God or even gods even, just beings made in the image of God, and God is the "ultimate observer" in all of this, etc. And, beyond that, Master Creator and Programmer or Designer, which we are most definitely not, etc...

Now really, come on now, you actually think that I think I am God or something? You should know I don't think that at all, etc, and I am "offended" that you would even say that or suggest that about me or even say that to me, etc...? And we create or make Heaven or God? No, just "no", OK...

Really, come on now man, really?

Anyway, we are just beings created to be like God, but not even close to being God Himself, or rather we are beings created to experience "reality" the way He does, etc, but are not gods, and most definitely not God Himself, etc, but we are only made to (eventually) experience reality the way He does, etc, only he both designed and made it/them, which we did not and do not do, but only experience it the way that He can and does, etc...We do not create (Heaven or God or whatever) only experience...

Anyhow, I'm offended by what you said though, hurts me and hurts me a lot cause I definitely don't think that at all, etc...

You've got me all wrong, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Im not trying to accuse you of this but it is the direction of the logic. If we are to seriously approach this concept then our concept of God gets absorbed into it (as does our concept of everything). I recognize you are making a distinction that there is a God and you are not it but what is your criteria for separating what is you (or in your mind) vs what isn't you. Clearly you have done this with God but what are your rules you are operating with to determine this because I don't find it consistent.

[MOVED] This is all a simulated world reality that does not exist apart from us

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