(Moved) The law. Is it done away with? Is it, really?

[claninja]

If the Law was given to reveal what sin is, and Paul told Gentiles not to sin, then it should be fairly straightforward what he was telling Gentiles to do.



Jesus summarized the Law and the Prophets as being about how to love God and our neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40) and that if we love him, then we will obey His teachings, which are not his own, but that of the Father (John 14:23-24), and Galatians 5:14 says that loving your neighbor fulfills the entire Law, so there is no distinction between God's laws distinguishing us and love distinguishing us.

Absolutely agree, and interestingly enough we have this little tidbit of info

“Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

34When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.

 

[claninja]

No the Law was not done away with.

Then we should still be sacrificing in the temple and requiring parents to circumcise their 8 day old male children.

 

[Soyeong]

But if you are led of the Spirit, then you are not under the Law. Galatians 5:18

In Galatians 5:19-23, everything that is listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the God's Law, while everything listed as fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with God's Law, which should make sense because the Spirit is God, the Law was given by God, and the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), so it doesn't make any sense to interpret Galatians 5:18 as referring to God's Law. We know that Paul spoke elsewhere in Romans 5-8 about a law of sin that stirred up sinful passions that lead to death, so it would make much more sense to interpret Galatians 5:18 as saying that we aren't under the law of sin when we are led by the Spirit. According to Psalms 119:29, David asked God to show His grace to him by teaching him to obey His Law, so if we are under grace, then we are under God's Law.

It is not God's will that we follow the Law, ... for the objective of following the Law.

How can it not be God's will that we follow His commands when God makes His will known through His commands?

It is God's will that we allow the Law to teach us, that we cannot, of ourselves, live up to the expectations of God for His children.

In Deuteronomy 30:11-14, God said that what He commanded was not too difficult, but that it is near us, in our mouth and in our heart so that we can obey it, and in Romans 10:5-10 our faith says the same thing in regard to what it means to submit to Jesus as Lord, so it is completely false that the Law was given to show that we can't meet God's expectations. While the Law does point out of sin, that is only useful insofar as it leads us to repentance and back to obedience. The Law is primarily about how to live by faith in accordance with God's attributes: holiness, righteousness goodness (Romans 7:12), justice, mercy, faithfulness (Matthew 23:23), and the other fruits of the Spirit (Exodus 34:6-7).

Let's go back to the beginning ... what happened in the garden of Eden ?

Man disobeyed God's command and thus, fell out of relationship with God.

Everything from that point on in the scriptures ... is about God working to RESTORE relationship with men and women. If God was primarily concerned with His commands being followed to the letter, ... He could have created beings who would do so.

But God is interested in RELATIONSHIP, even flawed relationship.

If you believe that everything from that point is about God working to restore that intimate relationship with Him, then why do you not consider the Law to be part of that process? There are many verses that describe the Mosaic Covenant as being a marriage between God and Israel, such as with God describing himself as her husband (Jeremiah 31:32), or with Israel's unfaithfulness being described as adulter, which eventually God so bad that God wrote the Northern Kingdom a certificate of divorce, and someone can only become divorced if they have first been married (Jeremiah 3:8). So the Mosaic Law is about God teaching His bride how to have this intimate relationship with Him.

The giving of the Law was to demonstrate to us the futility of a life lived without God ... so that we would be driven to renew our relationship with God. After doing so, ... we should strive to fulfill our loving husband's will ... because we love Him, ... not out of some slavish commitment to follow a list of do's and dont's.

The Law was never intended to be obey without growing in a relationship with God. God always disdained it when His people outwardly honored him with their lips while their hearts were far from Him (Isaiah 29:13), so God has always been primarily concerned with where our hearts are, and obedience to God's commands has always been about showing our love for Him and trusting Him to guide us in how to rightly live. In Romans 9:30 - Romans 10:4, the reason why Israel failed to obtain righteousness was not because they did what God told them to and God gave them faulty commands, but because they misunderstood the righteousness of God and the purpose of the Law. They pursued the Law as through righteousness were by works and tried to establish their own instead of pursuing the law as through righteousness were by faith. The goal of obeying the Law has always been a relationship with Christ for everyone who has faith (Romans 10:4).

If you consider the question practically, ... you will have to admit that no list of rules could represent the full will of God. And, not only that, but it is unlikely that such a list would never vary. Because life varies, ... and the necessities of God's work varies. God never changes, ... but He isn't always doing the same thing.

There are indeed more things that are righteous and sinful than the Law instructs and prohibits, but as Paul said in Romans 7:14, the Law is spiritual, meaning that it has always been intended to teach us deeper spiritual principles of which the listed laws are just examples, and those deeper spiritual principles are the attributes of God. However, the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness can't change without God's righteousness changing, and God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142) so therefore all of God's righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160).

For instance, ... prior to the sacrifice of Christ, by God's law, Israelites were required to marry only other Israelites. But with the coming of Christ, these is no difference between Jew and Gentile, teaches Paul.

Israel is the people of God and is made up of all those who have faith in the promise (Romans 9:6-8). According to Ephesians 2:12, Gentiles were once separated from Christ, alienated from Israel, strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world, but according to Ephesians 2:19, all of that is no longer true in that Gentiles are no longer strangers or aliens, but are fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God.

So ... does God issue a new tweaked set of laws for His people ? No, He decides that He will write His law, His desires, day by day, moment by moment, upon their hearts. And how does He do this ... but by the ministry of the Holy Spirit, Who guides us day by day, moment by moment, ... without the need for any external Law. We need only follow Him.

The Law, which is finite (i.e words on paper, etc.) has to be inferior to the Spirit, which is infinite.

The Law has accomplished its purpose in those of us who have realigned with God through Christ. The Law goes on to point non-aligned persons back to God through Christ. That is what it was designed to do ... and that is what it does.

As for christians, we are to follow the Spirit. And, if we are led by the Spirit of God, we are no longer under the Law.

The Law is God's instructions for how to walk in His ways (Deuteronomy 8:6), so it is true that we do not need the written instructions if we are being guided by the Spirit in how to walk in God's ways, but if we want to see where the Spirit will lead us or we what to discern whether where we have been led is by the Spirit, then we can read the Law because we can be confident that the Spirit will not lead us to disobey what the Father has commanded.

 

[JIMINZ]

Then we should still be sacrificing in the temple and requiring parents to circumcise their 8 day old male children.

.
Read the rest of the post.
That is not what I said.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus says in Matthew chapter 5:

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

In verse 18, He says that not until heaven and earth pass, shall the law have to be removed. Heaven and earth are still here, so not only does this mean that the law is still meant to be obeyed. In verse 19, He says that whoever shall refrain from the law, and teach others to do the same will be called the least in the kingdom, but whoever keeps the law, and teaches others to do the same, will be called great. Then in verse 20:

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

This is saying that, the righteousness of the Pharisees, was by the letter, and not of faith. So, in order to have more righteousness than a Pharisee, one must only believe, and trust in God. But, we are to still keep the laws as the Pharisees said to, as stated by Jesus here: Matthew 23:1-3 - 1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

He is saying that the Pharisees teach the law of Moses, and that His disciples are to obey and to keep that law. To listen to them, because they preach the law of Moses, but only not to do as they do, because they place their faith in justification in themselves, and in man, not in God.

The law was never done away with, because it's displaying the Character of God. God cannot change. What is sin against Him yesterday, is sin against Him today and forever. Satan has infiltrated us, and caused us to view the law as sinful, which it is not. Jesus literally tells us that it isn't to pass until after judgement. We are to keep the law, but out of faith. I don't mean, out of faith the way the world says out of faith, I mean, that by having faith that God will justify you when you fail at it. Because you will. This knowing of your impossibility to keep the law shouldn't deter you from desiring to keep it. Romans 7 is a testament to that. The whole chapter is about him struggling to keep the laws of God, because his flesh and spirit are constantly warring one against the other. As we do today.

The doctrinal teaching of all grace and no law, isn't biblical. Abraham was justified by faith, but still kept the law. Genesis 26:5

Noah knew about clean and unclean animals Genesis 7:2
He even sacrificed a burnt offering on an altar, and only used clean animals to offer up: Genesis 8:20

Abraham also sacrificed a clean animal for a burnt offering to God, Genesis 22:13. It's not the law of Moses, it's the law of God, and it is never changing, because God is never changing. Abraham, although he was justified by faith, still kept the law of God. Genesis 26:5

The law was in fact a shadow, but only because through it, a lot of men thought that they were justified, when in fact, God is the only one who can justify. All of the bible is written about Israel. Israel, are God's children. They are those that have faith in God to justify, and be merciful, while they keep and uphold His laws. That is quite literally, every single great man ever written about in the bible. They struggled to keep the laws, while being strengthened by a sound faith in God. Moses was subject to the law, but saw and talked with God because of faith. David was to keep the law, but was justified by faith. Abraham was to keep it, but was justified by faith, Noah was to keep it, but was justified by faith. The prophets were to keep it, but were justified by faith. Jesus, was to keep it, and did. He was justified by the law, because He is the law. He is the word made flesh.

People try to say that people after Moses were the only ones to have known the law, but this biblically speaking, isn't so. It can be shown, over and over again throughout the pre-exodus scriptures. Even when Lot was visited by the Angels of the Lord. What type of bread did he offer up to Them? Genesis 19:3 - Unleavened bread. How would he have known to offer up to this being, unleavened bread if it weren't for the law? How about how just a chapter previously, where Abraham gave the Angel of the Lord a grain offering Genesis 18:6? These things were written about first with Moses, but they didn't originate there. The offerings, were done away with in Jesus, but not the laws themselves. The keeping of the 7th day Sabbath, the keeping of the Feast days, they are to remain until the end of time.

Besides, the feast days should be something we should want to celebrate. They all point to Jesus. All of them. Jesus has already fulfilled the first 4, and the last three He will come to fulfill as well. The very next one He has to fulfill is the feast of Trumpets. He will come during that time. No one knows exactly the day or the hour, but we know the season. It will happen in the fall, but because of Satan's influence, we don't know the exact day, or hour, only the season. Revelations says that Jesus will come when the last trumpet sounds, and the feast of trumpets, is one of the 3 feast days He hasn't yet fulfilled. The last two deal with separation of good and bad seed, and the reunion of God with His children. Both things, that Jesus will fulfill after He returns. Instead, we follow man-made tradition, and celebrate the evolution of the feast of Saturnalia (Christmas) Although, I'll save you from reading about this, as I'll make another thread about the pagan origins of modern-day holidays we observe today. This thread is long enough haha. God bless, brothers and sisters. May the work and deception of Satan not deceive you from keeping, speaking, and living in truth.

There are two kinds of "least type believers" mentioned in Scripture.
The first kind of least type believer is the kind who is humble and a servant to all (who is good).
The second kind of least type believer is the kind who breaks God's commandments (who is bad).

I made a detailed explanation with Scripture on this one.
Simply click on the spoiler button to read all about it.

Spoiler

In Matthew 5:19, Jesus says,

“Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven…” (Matthew 5:19).

Notice here in this verse it does not actually say that this person who breaks the least of these commands (and teaches others to do so) is IN the kingdom of heaven. It merely says that they will be CALLED the least in the kingdom of heaven.

But what about Matthew 11:11?

“Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.” (Matthew 11:11).

Who is the least in Matthew 11:11?

The "Lesser" or the "Least" in Matthew 11:11 is talking about the "Greatest" in the Kingdom. How so?

Jesus says,
“And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.” (Luke 9:46).

Jesus says,
“But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.” (Matthew 23:11).

And it is written,
33 “And he came to Capernaum: and being in the house he asked them, What was it that ye disputed among yourselves by the way?
34 But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who should be the greatest.
35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.
36 And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them,
37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.” (Mark 9:33-37).

Here we see in the Scripture verses above that the Least in the Kingdom of Heaven is the greatest within Matthew 11:11. For the Least in Matthew 11:11 is the one who accepts, loves, and ministers to all people including children and they are a servant (i.e. least) to all people in humbleness. Those who behave as though they are lesser or least in the Kingdom are ACTUALLY the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. For those who serve in God’s Kingdom in the New Covenant by loving others is better than the greatest of the prophets such as John the Baptist. For John followed the Old Covenant ways. For John was the last of the Old Testament prophets.

However, the "Least" in Matthew 5:19 are those who break God’s commands and teach others are Least in a bad way.

How so? The rest of Scripture gives us the testimony that breaking God’s Commandments is bad and not good.

John says,
“He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him” (1 John 2:4)

John says,
“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

Jesus says,
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me you who practice lawlessness.'" (Matthew 7:21-23).

In fact, Christ says that He will send His angels and gather out of His Kingdom all who sin and practice lawlessness and cast them into the furnace of fire.

Jesus says, "The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire." (Matthew 13:41-42)

Jesus tells us that by keeping His commands, it shows whether or not we truly love Him or not.

For Jesus says,
“He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me." (John 14:21)

And Jesus says,
"If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words."(John 14:23-24).

Paul says,
“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing.” (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Paul says,
“They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:16).

Conclusion: There are Two Kinds of Least Type Believers.

Matthew 5:19 and Matthew 11:11 are talking about the word “Least” from two different behavioral perspectives. One least kind of believer is bad because of their bad behavior (Matthew 5:19) and the other least kind of believer is good because of their good behavior (Matthew 11:11). This is not uncommon for the Word of God to speak of one thing as being mentioned as being both good and bad. There are two trees in the Garden. One good and one bad. There are two lions. The Lion of the Tribe of Judah and the roaring lion who seeks to devour you. There are two vines. The True Vine and the Vine of Sodom. There are also two “Least Type of Believers” in Scripture, as well. There are the “Least” who are the Greatest by Being the Least in Behavior and then there are the “Least” who break God’s Commands and teach others to do so.

Anyways, most are confused about the topic of God's Laws for us today in the Bible. Some just say just follow the 10 commandments. Some say we are to go back to the Old Law and obey things like the Saturday Sabbath, and keep the dietary laws. Some say we are under no Law whatsoever salvation wise. All of these are serious errors in thinking in regards to God's Laws for us today.

When Jesus said He came not to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it, He was talking about how He came not to destroy all forms of Law and that He came to bring God's Laws into it's true and intended purpose (Which was to love God and to love others). The foundation of the New Covenant Laws is about love. Whereas the commands in the Old Testament brought physical death and judgment to a person if they were disobeyed. This is not to say that we as believers are to treat God's laws under the New Testament with any kind of lesser importance now. By no means. A person is a servant to whatever master he chooses to serve by his actions.

Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. Which makes sense because we are under a different Covenant. Jesus said, no man puts new wine into old wine skins. The change of the Law means that the Ceremonial Laws and Judicial Laws in the Law of Moses (or the Old Testament) have been nailed to the cross by Jesus Christ. These are the ordinances that were against us that have been done away with. However, God's Eternal Moral Laws existed even before the written Law. Things like do not murder, do not steal, do not commit adultery, do not covet, etc. are moral laws. These moral laws were only emphasized in the written Law, and they have continued on into the New Covenant (obviously). However, while Jesus did keep the Old Law perfectly, He was also making changes to the Law, too. For Jesus said to turn the other cheek instead of an eye for an eye. Jesus did not condemn the woman caught in the act of adultery. When Jesus died upon the cross, the temple veil was torn. Meaning, the Law that required the animal sacrifices was no longer binding or acceptable. Jesus is now our perfect sacrifice. The priesthood order of Aaron has been disolved or fulfilled in Christ. Jesus is now our Heavenly High Priest (of a new priesthood order). We go to Christ as a mediator and not a physical priest. There are no more Levites. Also, after Christ's death, Peter had a vision from God that he could now eat unclean animals. This a direct violation of OT Law. In addition, Paul said if you seek to be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2). Yet, circumcision was a requirement under the Old Law. But this is not the case for the New Testament. For the Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12).

So the Old Law as a whole is done away with, because we are under a New Covenant. But God's Eternal Moral Laws (Which existed before the Written Law) are still in effect. But believers today primarily look to the commands in the New Testament to obey God and not the Old Testament. For we are New Covenant believers and not Old Covenant believers. We are the church and not Israel. We obey God's laws under the New Testament as a part of our faith in Jesus Christ. For Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments. But obedience to God's laws does not include going back to the ceremonial laws, and judicial laws under the Old Testament. We are not under the Law (i.e. the Old Law).

I hope this helps.
May God bless you in all manner of His goodness.
And please be well.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


Side Note:

Please take note that I believe we are initially and ultimately saved by repenting of our sins and believing that Jesus died for our sins and that He raised three days later from the grave on our behalf (and not of works alone). For if we sin, how do we get clean? By doing a work? No. By repenting of our sins to Jesus. This is why I believe we are saved by accepted Jesus Christ and abiding in Him. For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). But if we abide in Christ, then good fruit and not bad fruit will be in our lives because it is Jesus who will do the good work within our lives.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

The law is completely done away with in the matter of justification. Sanctification is another matter.

 

[claninja]

.
Read the rest of the post.
That is not what I said.

Maybe you could clarify it what you meant, because you did say the law has not been done away with.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Jesus kept the Law perfectly, but was not justified by the Law, but by faith.

Was Jesus justified? Maybe I'm rusty on my theological terminology, but I didn't think Jesus needed to be justified.

 

[Soyeong]

Was Jesus justified? Maybe I'm rusty on my theological terminology, but I didn't think Jesus needed to be justified.

I don't think being justified necessarily has the implication that had had done something wrong. To justify is to show to be just or right or to declared to be guiltless, so I think it works. I could have also said that he had right standing with the faith by faith or that he was righteous by faith.

 

[A_Thinker]

If you believe that everything from that point is about God working to restore that intimate relationship with Him, then why do you not consider the Law to be part of that process?

I do consider the Law to be a PART of that process, ... and not the GOAL of that process.

 

[A_Thinker]

There are many verses that describe the Mosaic Covenant as being a marriage between God and Israel, such as with God describing himself as her husband (Jeremiah 31:32), or with Israel's unfaithfulness being described as adulter, which eventually God so bad that God wrote the Northern Kingdom a certificate of divorce, and someone can only become divorced if they have first been married (Jeremiah 3:8). So the Mosaic Law is about God teaching His bride how to have this intimate relationship with Him.

I would agree that the Mosaic Covenant is between God and OT Israel.

 

[A_Thinker]

so therefore all of God's righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160).

So then, ... it will always and forever be against God's Law to eat pork ?

Acts 10

11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

 

[friend of]

Romans 3:20

Romans 3:31

Romans 4:14

Romans 6:1-2

Romans 6:11-12

Romans 8:6

 

[disciple1]

Jesus says in Matthew chapter 5:

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

In verse 18, He says that not until heaven and earth pass, shall the law have to be removed. Heaven and earth are still here, so not only does this mean that the law is still meant to be obeyed. In verse 19, He says that whoever shall refrain from the law, and teach others to do the same will be called the least in the kingdom, but whoever keeps the law, and teaches others to do the same, will be called great. Then in verse 20:

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

This is saying that, the righteousness of the Pharisees, was by the letter, and not of faith. So, in order to have more righteousness than a Pharisee, one must only believe, and trust in God. But, we are to still keep the laws as the Pharisees said to, as stated by Jesus here: Matthew 23:1-3 - 1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

He is saying that the Pharisees teach the law of Moses, and that His disciples are to obey and to keep that law. To listen to them, because they preach the law of Moses, but only not to do as they do, because they place their faith in justification in themselves, and in man, not in God.

The law was never done away with, because it's displaying the Character of God. God cannot change. What is sin against Him yesterday, is sin against Him today and forever. Satan has infiltrated us, and caused us to view the law as sinful, which it is not. Jesus literally tells us that it isn't to pass until after judgement. We are to keep the law, but out of faith. I don't mean, out of faith the way the world says out of faith, I mean, that by having faith that God will justify you when you fail at it. Because you will. This knowing of your impossibility to keep the law shouldn't deter you from desiring to keep it. Romans 7 is a testament to that. The whole chapter is about him struggling to keep the laws of God, because his flesh and spirit are constantly warring one against the other. As we do today.

The doctrinal teaching of all grace and no law, isn't biblical. Abraham was justified by faith, but still kept the law. Genesis 26:5

Noah knew about clean and unclean animals Genesis 7:2
He even sacrificed a burnt offering on an altar, and only used clean animals to offer up: Genesis 8:20

Abraham also sacrificed a clean animal for a burnt offering to God, Genesis 22:13. It's not the law of Moses, it's the law of God, and it is never changing, because God is never changing. Abraham, although he was justified by faith, still kept the law of God. Genesis 26:5

The law was in fact a shadow, but only because through it, a lot of men thought that they were justified, when in fact, God is the only one who can justify. All of the bible is written about Israel. Israel, are God's children. They are those that have faith in God to justify, and be merciful, while they keep and uphold His laws. That is quite literally, every single great man ever written about in the bible. They struggled to keep the laws, while being strengthened by a sound faith in God. Moses was subject to the law, but saw and talked with God because of faith. David was to keep the law, but was justified by faith. Abraham was to keep it, but was justified by faith, Noah was to keep it, but was justified by faith. The prophets were to keep it, but were justified by faith. Jesus, was to keep it, and did. He was justified by the law, because He is the law. He is the word made flesh.

People try to say that people after Moses were the only ones to have known the law, but this biblically speaking, isn't so. It can be shown, over and over again throughout the pre-exodus scriptures. Even when Lot was visited by the Angels of the Lord. What type of bread did he offer up to Them? Genesis 19:3 - Unleavened bread. How would he have known to offer up to this being, unleavened bread if it weren't for the law? How about how just a chapter previously, where Abraham gave the Angel of the Lord a grain offering Genesis 18:6? These things were written about first with Moses, but they didn't originate there. The offerings, were done away with in Jesus, but not the laws themselves. The keeping of the 7th day Sabbath, the keeping of the Feast days, they are to remain until the end of time.

Besides, the feast days should be something we should want to celebrate. They all point to Jesus. All of them. Jesus has already fulfilled the first 4, and the last three He will come to fulfill as well. The very next one He has to fulfill is the feast of Trumpets. He will come during that time. No one knows exactly the day or the hour, but we know the season. It will happen in the fall, but because of Satan's influence, we don't know the exact day, or hour, only the season. Revelations says that Jesus will come when the last trumpet sounds, and the feast of trumpets, is one of the 3 feast days He hasn't yet fulfilled. The last two deal with separation of good and bad seed, and the reunion of God with His children. Both things, that Jesus will fulfill after He returns. Instead, we follow man-made tradition, and celebrate the evolution of the feast of Saturnalia (Christmas) Although, I'll save you from reading about this, as I'll make another thread about the pagan origins of modern-day holidays we observe today. This thread is long enough haha. God bless, brothers and sisters. May the work and deception of Satan not deceive you from keeping, speaking, and living in truth.

Galatians chapter 5 verse 14
The entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as yourself.

Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.


1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers a great many sins.

 

[Soyeong]

I do consider the Law to be a PART of that process, ... and not the GOAL of that process.

The way you described it as a list of rules that we can't keep does not fit with its goal of teaching us how to have an intimate relationship with Christ. It makes it more like God was a cruel Father who set a trap for His children to cause us to fail and to put us under a curse. Rather, God said that what He commanded was for His children's own good, and I believe Him (Deuteronomy 6:24, Deuteronomy 10:13).

I would agree that the Mosaic Covenant is between God and OT Israel.

Good. While we are under the New Covenant and not under the Mosaic Covenant, we are nevertheless under the same God, who has the same attributes and therefore the same way to act according to those attributes. In other words, there was nothing that was in accordance or against God's righteous that changed when the Law was given or when Christ came because God's righteousness is eternal.

So then, ... it will always and forever be against God's Law to eat pork ?

Acts 10

11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

It is important not to take something that was only against obey the laws of men as being against obeying the Law of the God that we serve. It says all kinds of animals were let down in his Peter's vision, so why didn't he follow God's command to kill and eat by simply killing and eating one of the clean animals? The issue was that there was a man-made ritual purity law that said that something clean that came into contact with something unclean became defiled or common (Mark 7:3-4), so because all of the animals in his vision were bundled in the center of the sheet all of the clean animals there had become common. So when Peter said that he had never eaten anything that was common or unclean, he was saying that he had never broken that man-made ritual purity law or God's dietary law, and by refusing to kill and eat a clean animal as the Torah permitted him to do, he was disobeying God in order to obey man. Note that God did not rebuke Peter for referring to clean animals as unclean, but for referring to clean animals as common, so his vision was in regard to the incorrect status of clean animals, which he interpreted to be in regard to the incorrect status of Gentiles, and had nothing to do with a change in the status of unclean animals. Furthermore, Peter interpreted his vision that way three times, not once did he even hint at now being able to eat unclean animals, and with no other vision in the Bible to we reinterpret to mean anything other than that stated interpretation.

According to Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from what God had commanded, so if you believe Peter did that, then you should believe that he would have sinned and needed to repent. In addition, according to Deuteronomy 13:4-5, they way that God instructed His people to determine whether someone was a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught them against obeying what God had commanded, even if they performed signs and wonders, so God did not leave any room to later send a prophet who would add to or subtract from what He had commanded, and if Peter had tried to do that, then the people would have been quicker to disregard what he said than to disregard what God said, and we should do the same, but I do not believe that Peter ever spoke against anyone obeying any of God's commands.

 

[Soyeong]

Romans 3:20

Romans 3:31

Romans 4:14

Romans 6:1-2

Romans 6:11-12

Romans 8:6

It would be helpful if you could give your interpretation of those verses.

 

[RDKirk]

.
Read the rest of the post.
That is not what I said.

Doesn't matter what you said.

What matters is what the Mosaic Covenant says.

 

[RDKirk]

Was Jesus justified? Maybe I'm rusty on my theological terminology, but I didn't think Jesus needed to be justified.

"Justification" in scripture is not a legal term, it's a term of construction. In scripture, God uses the analogy of a plumb line to determine if a structure is "just"--straight and plumb.

Jesus is the plumb line. Jesus is the standard by which anyone is measured to determine if he is just and the plumb line against which anyone can be justified.

 

[Apex]

 

[RisenInJesus]

Jesus says in Matthew chapter 5:

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

As Jesus stated He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it. As believers we can learn a lot about God's character from the law and it is beneficial in this way, but for a Christian to attempt to live under the law is futile. No one ever in the history of humanity has been able to successfully live up to the standards of the law, except Jesus Christ. That is why we need a Savior and it is Christ ALONE who has fulfilled the requirements of God's law. Those in Christ are under the law of Christ and covered by His perfect righteousness. Attempting to live by the law is a denial of salvation and justification in the finished work of Christ and it is a self-righteous attempt at holiness. When one's life is submitted to Christ then they will live a life pleasing to God.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Romans 10:4