Moses Tabernacle and God's Plan of Redemption

[mlqurgw]

Thank you for suggesting the book, it sounds like a great read and I will be looking for it!

I really didn't know how I was going to type this all out in this thread. When I started out I had no idea it was going to be this long and take this much time but while typeing it out it became my own special project. This is the first time I wrote or typed all of this down and it became more and more a pleasure than a burden because when first put to the challenge I admitt I viewed it more as a burden than a pleasure. And a note for the readers here, what I typed is only a start into this because there is much more I could've said on this.

I take it you have read John Bunyan's book, if so then don't be sorry for just skimming over this and I do appreciate your comments. I do hope those who haven't ever seen something like this read a little further into it and then do gain something from it. That's my prayer. Amen

Actually you can read it here:
http://www.johnbunyan.org/text/bun-solomon.htm

 

[nephilimiyr]

Actually you can read it here:
http://www.johnbunyan.org/text/bun-solomon.htm

Ah, wonderful! Thank you

 

[thunderbyrd]

Thank you very much for this thread my son and i have been going over some of this and will do some more later. it is great to have all this in one place.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Thank you very much for this thread my son and i have been going over some of this and will do some more later. it is great to have all this in one place.

Your very welcome thunderbyrd. It was more than a pleasure to do this but it even became a blessing for me by going over all this once again. I pray you'll also be blessed.

If you get the chance, read the book that mlqurgw provided in the link. I haven't finished reading it but it is great so far!

 

[Soon Rev 22:11-12]

The Illustrated Plan of Salvation
http://biblelight.net/temple.htm

 

[Soon Rev 22:11-12]

​

1. If the atonement was made on Calvary, by whom was it made?​

The making of the atonement is the work of a Priest? but who officiated on Calvary? - Roman soldiers and wicked Jews.
2. The slaying of the victim was not making the atonement:

the sinner slew the victim, Leviticus 4:1-4, 13-15. etc., after that the Priest took the blood and made the atonement. Leviticus 4:5-12, 16-21.​

3. Christ was the appointed High priest to make the atonement, and he certainly could not have acted in that capacity till after his resurrection, and we have no record of his doing any thing on earth after his resurrection, which could be called the atonement. ​

4. The atonement was made in the Sanctuary, but Calvary was not such a place.​

5. He could not, according to Hebrews 8:4, make the atonement while on earth. "If he were on earth, he should not be a Priest."​

The Levitical was the earthly priesthood, the Divine, the heavenly.​

6. Therefore, he did not begin the work of making the atonement, whatever the nature of that work may be, till after his ascension, when by his own blood he entered his heavenly Sanctuary for us.​

 

[nephilimiyr]

Some multi-media for yah!
Just click onto link and follow directions.

http://home.comcast.net/~gctz/holy1.htm

 

[nephilimiyr]

The Illustrated Plan of Salvation
http://biblelight.net/temple.htm

Good link soon Rev, thanks!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi. I also pictured "John" back in the OC Tabernacle of the Wilderness after passing through the "first veil".

John would be an OC Hebrew Jew and he would symbolically be facing the OC Table of Showbread. When he "turns/converts" he is looking at the True Showbread of Life, the Lord Jesus.

Reve 1: 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last," ......... 12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands [One] like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band.

http://www.nsbible.org/sits_ts/v0s1.htm

The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Wow!!! This is a great thread and thanks for bringing it up to me.
I will copy it to a folder to look at more closely and perhaps try to add some of my views that haven't already been shown and you have some great links here also!!!!!

I wish tranlators would have translated the words as they are in the rest of the NT. This greek word for "whipping/scourging" instead of plagues.
Glad to see a study on this.

(Young) Nahum 3:2 The sound of a whip, And the sound of the rattling of a wheel, And of a prancing horse, and of a bounding chariot, Of a horseman mounting.

reve 16:21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, [each hailstone] about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the scourge of the hail, since that scouge was exceedingly great. [Isaiah 28:16-18]

 

[nephilimiyr]

Wow!!! This is a great thread and thanks for bringing it up to me.
I will copy it to a folder to look at more closely and perhaps try to add some of my views that haven't already been shown and you have some great links here also!!!!!

I wish tranlators would have translated the words as they are in the rest of the NT. This greek word for "whipping/scourging" instead of plagues.
Glad to see a study on this.

(Young) Nahum 3:2 The sound of a whip, And the sound of the rattling of a wheel, And of a prancing horse, and of a bounding chariot, Of a horseman mounting.

reve 16:21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, [each hailstone] about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the scourge of the hail, since that scouge was exceedingly great. [Isaiah 28:16-18]

Sorry about the missing photos but I wrote this thread back in 2005 and needed to make room in my hot link provider so I deleted the photos. If you like I could probably find the photos and diagrams again and then link them back up?

Oh, and if you have anything to add to this then please do!

 

[Ben12]

One of the most awesome and deep teachings I have ever seen was written by a man by the name of George Warnock called the "Feast of Tabernacles" which can be found by searching on Google. It was written in 1950 but just recently has taken off.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

While studying on the greek translation of Revelation I happen to notice something about the church of "thyatira".

It appears to use a form of the greek word for "altar/incense" and since this is the 4th church, I am even more interested in it as the #4 usually designates "earth/land" I believe.

Luke 1 shows it is indeed the Altar of Incense in the Holy Place in Revelation.
Any thoughts on this or perhaps you may want to start a thread just on the altar/incense so as not to derail this and the main reason I put this up is to help others that may want to delve into greek translations to better interpret the NT/NC?

Reve 2:and into THYATIRA/quateira 2363"odour of affliction"

Luke 1:8 It came to pass by in his acting as priest, in the order of his course before of the God/qeou<2316>,
9 according to the custom of the priesthood, his lot was to make perfume/qumiasai <2370>, having gone into the Sanctuary of the Lord/kuriou<2962> ,
10 and all the multitude of the people were praying without/outside [#1854 exw], at the hour of the perfume/qumiamatoV <2368>.
11 Appeared to him a messenger [of the] Lord/kuriou <2962> standing out of the right side of the Altar/qusiasthriou<2379> of the Perfume/qumiamatoV <2368>, 12 and Zacharias, having seen, was troubled, and fear fell on him;

Revelation 11:1 And there was given unto me a reed/ kalamoV, like unto a staff, saying-- Be Arousing!!!, and Measure!!!! the Sanctuary[#3485] of the God/qeou <2316>, and the Altar/qusiasthrion <2379>[Golden Altar of Incense], and Them who are doing homage therein;

 

[Ben12]

Littlelamb of Jesus

I do no how it happen but my post got mixed up with your ID. ????

 

[Ben12]

And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein." (Rev. 11:1).

And so the hour came, John saw in his vision, that it was time to "measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein." "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod."

A rod-- the Greek word is "rhabdos" meaning: rod, staff, sceptre. The comparable Hebrew word "shebet" is used by David in Psalm 23:4, "Your rod, and Your staff they comfort me." Our Lord is the Chief Shepherd, and with His rod He tenderly cares for us, guides us, corrects us, etc. And, "A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom." (Hebrews 1:8). Thus, HE IS THE ROD, the STANDARD, the CRITERION whereby all must be measured. All must be "conformed to the image of His Son."

"Measure the temple..." It is significant that there are two Greek words translated as "temple," the word "hieron," referring to the building; and the word "naos," referring to the inner sanctuary. From the time when "the veil of the temple was rent in two from the top to the bottom, " (Matthew 27:51 ), as far as God was concerned, it ceased being a temple (naos), and from thereafter it was just a building, hieron. But Paul picks up this word "naos" and uses it when speaking of the temple which we become, saying, "You are the temple (naos) of the living God; as God has said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." (2 Corinthians 6:16).

Well Peter wrote, "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God... first begin at us." (1 Peter 4:19). We wonder why we are so dealt with by His Spirit-- why His probings go so deep-- why He exacts such faithfulness and complete surrender from us-- why others are allowed to go their own way, play their religious games-- why He has stripped away our desire for these empty realms? Ah, it is because He is dealing with us as His firstfruits, HIS INNER SANCTUARY, and we are being duly measured and qualified to become His habitation.

Judgment-- the correctional in workings of God, begin AT, or, literally, FROM the House of God. The temple is the focal point, the starting point, and it first must be found approved, before judgment moves outward. Not until the temple is fully qualified is the ministry ready to reach out and bring others into alignment with the same Standard. All else will measure up to the temple, once the temple has measured up to, come into the fulness of Christ. Then we'll be able to say, in the words of Paul, "Be followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." It will not be a "do as I say," but a "do as I am, and as I live," for in state of being we also become one with our Standard. No wonder this is ever more "a revelation of Jesus Christ."

"Because it is written, Be holy; for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:16). HIS HOLINESS is our standard, and when we are one IN and WITH that holiness, then, and not until then, will we be a part of that living manifestation of His standard for others.

This brings new meaning to the verse, "For with the same measure that you mete withal it shall be measured to you again." (Luke 6:38). Jesus Christ is the Measure, the Stature, and because He is giving this measure out to us, this is what He shall receive back again-- a creation restored into fulness and perfection. If our vision is for a partial redemption, God receiving a few, the Devil receiving the rest, then such is the measure that we shall receive back again-- a partial redemption. But when our vision is enlarged and we come into the fulness of the TRUE MEASURE, then we'll give out of that Supply, and receive back accordingly.

We read, "Divers weights, divers measures, both of them are alike abomination to the Lord." (Proverbs 20:10). For the phrase "divers weights" the Hebrew text reads, "a stone and a stone," both the same size perhaps, but one of much heavier substance than the other. A crooked merchant would substitute the one for the other to his own benefit. Two cups, but one with a false bottom, to cause a lesser measure. True, in all natural dealings this is an abomination to the Lord. But it also has a spiritual application. God does not have a double standard, one for men, and one for Himself. The principles He gives to men are MUCH MORE fulfilled in Himself and His dealings with His creation. His own righteousness becomes the ultimate standard for all creation.


"The Lord's voice cries unto the city, and wisdom shall see your name: HEAR THE ROD, and who has appointed it." (Micah 6:9). Then using Moffatt's translation, and he places verse twelve before verses ten and eleven, "Hard and harsh are the classes, deceitful are the masses, with mouths full of falsehood. Can I forget what rogues have hoarded, and these accursed scant measures? Can I condone wrong balances and short weights in the trader's bag? Nay, nay."

No wonder people are confused, they have had to contend with such strange standards and diverse measures. The religious systems have said, "I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knows not that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked." (Revelation 3:17).

But now the voice cries, "HEAR THE ROD..." Give your attention to the measuring rod which God has appointed-- it is a scepter of righteousness, the scepter of His kingdom, His total rule within. He measures and works in us "that we might arrive at really mature manhood -- the completeness of personality which is nothing less than the standard height of Christ's own perfection, and the completeness found in Him." (Ephesians 4:13, Amplified).

In Ezekiel's vision, (chapter 40), they measured the temple, and then every chamber therein-- each room signifying the office and position of its occupant. Every room, pillar, gate, etc. had to measure up to the divine specification. Every man had to qualify for his position in the temple, and each room had to be duly fitted to the needs of that office. There must be perfect harmony, hence the measures were exact.

So also, the callings of God upon His firstfruits are tremendous, and the position, to become a pillar in the temple of our God, requires that we fully OVERCOME, even as He also overcame. EVEN AS-- in like manner, of the same quality and kind, for we are to be made perfect in Christ's own perfection.

How often it has been necessary for Christ to come with a "scourge of small cords" and drive "out of the temple," (John 2:15), so many things which are displeasing to Him, till we are cleansed of all that would defile, that we might measure up to the specifications for His dwelling place.

"And the altar..." The altar bespeaks of the place of sacrifice. The root thought in sacrifice is that TABLE-BOND between the worshiper and his God. Made with the design of expressing, securing, or promoting friendly relations with Him, based upon the belief that the worshiper and God are capable of holding personal relations which can become closer, or more hostile. The altar becomes the focal point over which communion, fellowship, worship take place, as God, and the worshiper, come together for this time of sharing. It is a place where we draw nigh unto God, while He also draws nigh unto us.

Israel had various offerings, each signifying a particular area that needed attention-- God's forgiveness, His peace, His love, His care; while in turn man surrendered himself evermore to His Creator. And as to the gifts offered, the law was specific, there could not be an offering of that which was blind, broken, or maimed, etc. (See Leviticus 22:21-25). And the prophet Malachi charged the people with profanity and irreverence because "they brought that which was torn, and the lame, and the sick," (Malachi 1:13), while they kept the best of the flocks for themselves.

"Them that worship." "True worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship Him." (John 4:23). Worship speaks of the complete abasement of self; not just a will-worship, nor a lip-service, but that total abandonment before Him, bowing at His feet, to magnify Him alone. Yes, even our worship is to be measured, that it be pure, from the heart, in spirit and in truth, to glorify God.

"But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the nations..." (Revelation 11:2).

The application is two-fold. First, in speaking of our becoming the temple, He is dealing with our inner man, "the hidden man of the heart." "For the Lord sees not as man sees; for man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart." (1 Samuel 16:7). And so Jesus reproved the Pharisees, because they "make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess." (Matthew 23:25). And again, emphasizing that it was not the outward, but the inward that mattered, He said, "Not that which goes into the mouth defiles a man; but that which comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man." (Matthew 15:11).

Again we are directed back into the Old Testament in regards to these symbols, and their meaning. "What do you see? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof. -- and the two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof. -- And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? And he answered me and said, Know not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth." (Zechariah 4:2-3, 12-14).

First, it is to be noted that Zechariah did not ask about the identity of the golden candlestick in the middle. It is the ministry of overcoming victory, possessing the seven spirits of God. It was prefigured in Zerubbabel, and revealed in Jesus Christ. It is also to be seen in the TEMPLE once it is duly measured and become one in Him.

But when it came to the two olive trees, (literally, the sons of oil), then the prophet asked who they were. Two is the number of witness, as it is written in the Law: "At the mouth of two witnesses, ... shall the matter be established." (Deuteronomy 19:15).

And it is noted that they are clothed in "sackcloth" which bespeaks of a ministry of repentance. Also, it is a type of the present body of our humiliation. They are not clothed with immortality, since they can be slain. They are anointed of God, but it is a limited anointing, for they "empty the golden oil out of themselves." Anything that can be emptied has not yet been brought into His fulness. They represent a supportive ministry, and a forerunner to the greater ministry which shall follow. Even as John the Baptist was a forerunner to Jesus Christ. Theirs is a ministry of discipline, punishment: "fire proceeds out of their mouth, and devours their enemies. - These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy. - (they) smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will." (verses 5-6). It is a valid ministry, but in great contrast to the greater ministry which will follow, when the sons, who are one in the divine nature of love, are used to help RECONCILE and RESTORE all things to God. But, when this special "two witness ministry" has run its course, fulfilled its purpose, then to them also is extended the call "Come up hither." Thus all the lesser is ultimately swallowed up into the greater, to the glory and praise of our Lord.

Through all God's workings with man, let us join in with those who "fell upon their faces, and worshiped God, saying, We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which are, and was, and are to come; because You have taken to Your great power, and have reigned." (verses 16-17). Every working, whether it appears negative or positive, regardless of its level, is being used to bring forth "a revelation of Jesus Christ," and so we worship Him.
"And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail." (19).

When the temple is opened, "there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament." All of the Christ now within His elect shall be revealed, seen in His temple. He is the Ark of the testament, the Center of our testimony and victory, and it is to Him that we shall bear witness-- of His salvation, of His life!




(Ray Prinzing; Revelations a Positive Book )
on web

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Measure the temple..." It is significant that there are two Greek words translated as "temple," the word "hieron," referring to the building; and the word "naos," referring to the inner sanctuary. From the time when "the veil of the temple was rent in two from the top to the bottom, " (Matthew 27:51 ), as far as God was concerned, it ceased being a temple (naos), and from thereafter it was just a building, hieron. But Paul picks up this word "naos" and uses it when speaking of the temple which we become, saying, "You are the temple (naos) of the living God; as God has said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." (2 Corinthians 6:16).

Thanks. That was interesting because the word Jesus used for temple in Matt 24:1 is Hieron [#2411] which is also the word used for "Priests.

Also the word Jesus used for Temple [#2411] in Matt 24 is never used once in all of Revelation!!!!

That is actually the first time I noticed that.

Matthew 24:1 And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the temple/ierou <2411>, and his disciples

hiereus (Strong's 2409) occurs 32 times in 30 verses: AV - priest 31, high priest 1; 32

Matthew 8:4 And Jesus saith to him, `See, thou mayest tell no one, but go, thyself shew to the priest/ierei <2409>, and bring the gift that Moses commanded for a testimony to them.'

Psalms 65:4 O the happiness of [him whom] Thou choosest, And drawest near, he inhabiteth Thy courts, We are satisfied with the goodness of Thy house, Thy holy temple.

 

[Ben12]

Thanks. That was interesting because the word Jesus used for temple in Matt 24:1 is Hieron [#2411] which is also the word used for "Priests.

Also the word Jesus used for Temple [#2411] in Matt 24 is never used once in all of Revelation!!!!

That is actually the first time I noticed that.

Matthew 24:1 And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the temple/ierou <2411>, and his disciples

hiereus (Strong's 2409) occurs 32 times in 30 verses: AV - priest 31, high priest 1; 32

Matthew 8:4 And Jesus saith to him, `See, thou mayest tell no one, but go, thyself shew to the priest/ierei <2409>, and bring the gift that Moses commanded for a testimony to them.'

Check out Ray Prinzings " Revelations a Positive Book"

and

George Warnocks "Feast of Tabernacles" you will love these books. Both are on the Web

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Check out Ray Prinzings " Revelations a Positive Book"

and

George Warnocks "Feast of Tabernacles" you will love these books. Both are on the Web

Ok Thanks!!!
Have you checked this series Preston Eby did on Revelation? He also has a good series on the Royal Priesthood and the "Ashes of the Red Heifer".
Revelation is horribly translated also and I have finished a word for word translation comparing how each and every word was used in the rest of the NC of the Bible. Bad Translations have been one of the main stumblings blocks of bringing this amazing Book of the Life of the Lamb to life for, not only CHRIST-ians, but non-CHRISTIANS. Peace.

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/tablecontents.htm

The book of Revelation is THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST. Revelation is a book that teaches who and what Jesus Christ is. It reveals Him in all of His glory, unveils Him in all of His fullness. You will find Jesus the Christ in every chapter of the book, for it is the revelation of Himself. When we read the message of the Revelation with a heart that seeks after Christ, we see in every page His face and hear from every line His voice.

The wise man said, "...of the making of many books there is no end..." (Eccl. 12:12). The book stores are filled to overflowing today with all types of books dealing with every aspect of earthly life. Even in the church world there are books setting forth every kind of viewpoint relating to God, the Bible, doctrine, Christian experience, and church order. However the subject material of most of these books largely contains a message of religious tradition and spiritual death.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Thanks you two for this interesting discussion. Unfortunately I am a mod moderating another forum and don't have the time to get involved with this deep theology but I am enjoying this and learning from it. That was a great post you wrote Ben12, keep them coming if you can!

 

[Ben12]

Ok Thanks!!!
Have you checked this series Preston Eby did on Revelation? He also has a good series on the Royal Priesthood and the "Ashes of the Red Heifer".
Revelation is horribly translated also and I have finished a word for word translation comparing how each and every word was used in the rest of the NC of the Bible. Bad Translations have been one of the main stumblings blocks of bringing this amazing Book of the Life of the Lamb to life for, not only CHRIST-ians, but non-CHRISTIANS. Peace.

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/tablecontents.htm

The book of Revelation is THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST. Revelation is a book that teaches who and what Jesus Christ is. It reveals Him in all of His glory, unveils Him in all of His fullness. You will find Jesus the Christ in every chapter of the book, for it is the revelation of Himself. When we read the message of the Revelation with a heart that seeks after Christ, we see in every page His face and hear from every line His voice.

The wise man said, "...of the making of many books there is no end..." (Eccl. 12:12). The book stores are filled to overflowing today with all types of books dealing with every aspect of earthly life. Even in the church world there are books setting forth every kind of viewpoint relating to God, the Bible, doctrine, Christian experience, and church order. However the subject material of most of these books largely contains a message of religious tradition and spiritual death.

A BIGGGGGG AMen; I have benn reading Preston for a least ten years. Thanks