Mormons & Polygamy

[drstevej]

If Young was still under the impression that the media hoax was real, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for him to think this as well.

That method of dismissal doesn't match his confidence. He states:

"No question of it; it was not made in vain."

 

[Ironhold]

That method of dismissal doesn't match his confidence.

Go a little deeper into academia and you'll see people who make bolder declarations on flimsier information.

 

[Jutta2]

Right now I'm at work, not at home. In my records at home, there is the testimony of two women who begaupteten, descendants "always horny" of Joseph Smith to be. The DNA - evidence brought in a woman to prove the paternity of Smith, at the other woman did not. When I'm home, and I have time, I'm looking out everything I have to.

 

[drstevej]

The topic is Mormonism and Polygamy.

Looks like the suspension was a pragmatic decision to avoid jail

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for … any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. --
President Wilford Woodruff


https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/od/1
​

 

[Ran77]

The topic is Mormonism and Polygamy.

Looks like the suspension was a pragmatic decision to avoid jail

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for … any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. --
President Wilford Woodruff


https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/od/1
​

More like a realization of the extent of hatred the "Christian" sects had for the Church and a clear understanding of how far our critics would go to persecute those who are different from themselves. The sad thing is that not all that much has changed in over 150 years.

 

[drstevej]

Locking up lawbreakers is hatred?

 

[MehGuy]

Personally I kind of like the idea of having a few wives...but I'm not sure it's scriptural.

While I do not think the poly lifestyle is for me, I do respect it for those it is. As long as it's not forced upon people, and not used as a tool to subjugate women.

Other than that, I'm not really sure what any Mormon as to be sorry for..

 

[drstevej]

Read

Text Here.

 

[drstevej]

And Leo Garrett references my dissertation. Now back to the topic. Ever read Ann Eliza Young? Fascinating autobiography.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Read

Text Here.

In 1930, her older grandson told Wallace, "I hope to hell I never see her again." Wallace, Irving. The Twenty Seventh Wife, (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1961) p. 427.

 

[drstevej]

In 1930, her older grandson told Wallace, "I hope to hell I never see her again." Wallace, Irving. The Twenty Seventh Wife, (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1961) p. 427.

Have you read her book?

 

[Ironhold]

Locking up lawbreakers is hatred?

It is when members of Congress are recorded as saying that God would smite the nation if the church wasn't eradicated.

Yeah - it was pretty clear that the anti-polygamy laws were meant to target the church, making them in clear violation of the 1st Amendment.

 

[drstevej]

It is when members of Congress are recorded as saying that God would smite the nation if the church wasn't eradicated.

Yeah - it was pretty clear that the anti-polygamy laws were meant to target the church, making them in clear violation of the 1st Amendment.

So if the laws against polygamy are deemed unconstitutional should the LDS return to polygamy. If not, why not?

 

[smaneck]

In 1930, her older grandson told Wallace, "I hope to hell I never see her again." Wallace, Irving. The Twenty Seventh Wife, (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1961) p. 427.

Apparently she didn't have much luck in any of her three marriages. She divorced her first husband calling him the 'blight of her life." Her third marriage, this time to a non-Mormon also ended in divorce supposedly after she was accused of a series of affairs. As with her marriage to Brigham Young, she charged a huge amount of money to her husband's account just before the divorce.

 

[smaneck]

It doesn't cost anything to publish scientific articles on the web. See:

http://arxiv.org/

http://www.ssrn.com/en/

It does if you want them properly edited, type set and peer-reviewed.

 

[Jutta2]

Read

Text Here.

Interesting book. I read it years ago. Interestingly, not only because of polygamy, but also because of the description of the power and violence of Brigham Young.
But let's go back to the topic:
Almost marriage of BY and Eliza would have been recognized by the state, because Eliza sued BY to alimony and divorce. A non-Mormon judges upheld the action, whereupon BY fresch explained that he needed not pay alimony, because he was never legally married to her. His wish to have sexual pleasure, but not to pay for it, so was BY.

 

[Ironhold]

So if the laws against polygamy are deemed unconstitutional should the LDS return to polygamy. If not, why not?

Right now, there's no real purpose for it; plural marriage *was* a social safety network of sorts (yes, look into the actual history and practice), but nowadays most first-world governments have safety networks in place.

 

[Ironhold]

Interesting book. I read it years ago. Interestingly, not only because of polygamy, but also because of the description of the power and violence of Brigham Young.
But let's go back to the topic:
Almost marriage of BY and Eliza would have been recognized by the state, because Eliza sued BY to alimony and divorce. A non-Mormon judges upheld the action, whereupon BY fresch explained that he needed not pay alimony, because he was never legally married to her. His wish to have sexual pleasure, but not to pay for it, so was BY.

Yeah - when plural marriage was outlawed, that kind of legal defense became an option.

 

[light upon light]

It does if you want them properly edited, type set and peer-reviewed.

The bottom line is that institutional science is supposed to be about the progressive increase of human knowledge. Locking it up behind paywalls is in direct opposition to that stated purpose. The fact is that this isn't an issue for academics - who have institutional keys to those paywalls - but the broader world isn't even allowed to read scientific papers without paying thousands of dollars for subscriptions or else $50 a pop per research paper (or emailing the study authors and begging for an e-print). Instead we only get the results filtered through popular science journalists, who often miss the subtleties of a study or even miss the point of a research paper.

I would much prefer open review than the current archaic, guild-like system of closed and opaque peer review. An open review process is why Linux is far more robust and secure than Windows despite the billions of dollars that Microsoft pays in software engineer salaries every year.

It is time to open the doors and windows in academia and let some light and fresh air in.

 

[Ran77]

Locking up lawbreakers is hatred?

No. Hatred is hatred. That should be obvious. You seem to want to define the subject by an extremely narrow set of parameters while excluding the vast number of examples of the hatred displayed to the LDS then -- and now. In fact, this is a sad response. I doubt that anyone truly believes that the actions of those who opposed Joseph Smith were actually motivated by a desire to lock up lawbreakers. It takes a pretty big set of blinders to embrace that view.