Mormons and Masons

[unbound]

As stated before if JS was a mason, which he was, than the symbols more likely than not take on the Masonic meaning. It is what he thought of them that matters. I know you guys like to argue the point that he just borrowed them because he thought they look pretty, which is possible, but you seem to over look the masonic temple ceremonies found in the LDS church. Same blood oaths were taking place up til 1990. Now if you consider the Masonic connection in LDS belief and temple ceremony than it should be a NO BRAINER to figure out that those signs hold the freemasonry meaning. This meaning represents evil.


From a christian point of view does it make sense to have anything to do with pagan rituals. Expecially ones that take place during the Passover. Little bunnies and eggs which are symbols of fertility should not be welcome during the time you are suppose to be remembering Christs blood. Furthermore, the name easter comes from the name Ishtar which was the Ashtoreth of Babylon. You can go ahead and honor the traditions of men but as for me my devotion is to my God. I will have NOTHING to do with symbols of stars, moons, suns, animals no matter how much you say that it is ok, just make them mean whatever you want them to mean. Those are the words of someone walking around with blinders on to the world around them.

I also find it peculiar that the goal of Freemasonry is enlightenment, or in other words attainment of Godhood( whatever that means to them). Notice the "G" in the middle of the masonic square and compass.

Does this sound similar to the Mormon outcome, to become gods?

 

[happyinhisgrace]

I also find it peculiar that the goal of Freemasonry is enlightenment, or in other words attainment of Godhood( whatever that means to them). Notice the "G" in the middle of the masonic square and compass.

Does this sound similar to the Mormon outcome, to become gods?

This is one thing that I think all pagan beliefs have in common. They all purpose some way to gain enlilghtenment and further knowlege that others, not within their rituals are not privilaged to.

Example. Wiccan gain this "enlightenment" through casting rituals of spells.

Buddist and Hinuism gain this "enlightenment" through meditating and reaching a "higher plain" of disembodiment where the spirit is supposed to leave the body and go to a highter plain of existance.

Mormonism has their temple rituals that are only for "the most worthy" where one is to gain enlightenment to the "principles of the kingdom" with their signs, tokens and oaths.

 

[skylark1]

As stated before if JS was a mason, which he was, than the symbols more likely than not take on the Masonic meaning. It is what he thought of them that matters. I know you guys like to argue the point that he just borrowed them because he thought they look pretty, which is possible, but you seem to over look the masonic temple ceremonies found in the LDS church. Same blood oaths were taking place up til 1990. Now if you consider the Masonic connection in LDS belief and temple ceremony than it should be a NO BRAINER to figure out that those signs hold the freemasonry meaning. This meaning represents evil.

Zeal,

I have not read of an argument that JS borrowed symbols because "they look pretty." Chris stated on page one of this discussion what some of the LDS symbols mean. If this is not the same meaning that they have in Masonary, then it is a "no brainer" that these symbols represent something else in Mormonism. LDS might attatch the same meaning to some of the symbols. What I disagree with is your opinion that these symbols must represent the same thing in a different context.

From a christian point of view does it make sense to have anything to do with pagan rituals. Expecially ones that take place during the Passover. Little bunnies and eggs which are symbols of fertility should not be welcome during the time you are suppose to be remembering Christs blood. Furthermore, the name easter comes from the name Ishtar which was the Ashtoreth of Babylon. You can go ahead and honor the traditions of men but as for me my devotion is to my God. I will have NOTHING to do with symbols of stars, moons, suns, animals no matter how much you say that it is ok, just make them mean whatever you want them to mean. Those are the words of someone walking around with blinders on to the world around them.

I am not surprised that you believe this, as you have stated that you do not attend a church as you believe that they are all in apostasy. I think that it is unfortunate that you manage to find so much evil in things that it would not only keep you away from trees, bunnies, eggs, and stars, but keep you from attending a church.

 

[ZealouS]

Mormon doctorine cant parralel pagan beliefs though!!! The symbols stand for GOOD things! *rolls eyes*

They dont have to 100% mean the same thing but I am arguing the point that I do believe they mean that. The reason for this is because you all seem to think that no way on earth could they possibley hold the freemasonry meanings.


Why be around people who honor God with their mouths but are far from him in their hearts? Plus I live in utah in a small town so there are only LDS churches near me.

 

[christopher123]

They all purpose some way to gain enlightenment and further knowledge that others, not within their rituals are not privilaged to.

Maybe I'm just not a deep enough thinker, but I think the above is what it is all about. Not on a spiritual level, but on a "4th grader's special club" level.

Some people just need to feel special, and membership in "the temple club" gives them that.


Chris <><

 

[skylark1]

Mormon doctorine cant parralel pagan beliefs though!!! The symbols stand for GOOD things! *rolls eyes*

I didn't say that. You are so bent on classifying a symbol as good or evil that you seem to miss what I am saying. If LDS claim that a symbol represents something to them, who are you to tell them that it really means something else? I do not think that Mormonism is true. I think that it is likely that JS borrowed symbols from Freemasonary. I did not say that the symbols stand for "good things," just that thay may not hold the same meaning that they do in masonary. LDS believe in three glories, or levels of heavens. If they use the sun and moon an stars to represent these, I do not believe that it is a "good" thing since I do not believe that it is true. However, to insist that these symbols really mean something different and must hold the same meaning as they do in masonary is faulty logic.

 

[ZealouS]

I guess the best way for me to expose false doctorine is not to use their symbols then. I will have to just use true Biblical doctorine. Look for a new thread but I have a feeling that this one will also keep going since I will never believe that there is no possible chance that JS just used the same symbols and replaced the meaning. Why would he replace the meaning if he was a mason? What kind of logic is that? Does it matter what each LDS member believes? Not as much as it matters what the founder believed. Now the evidence agrees with them having masonic meaning. I can prove JS was a mason, can you prove that he wasnt skylark?

 

[Finchy]

I also find it peculiar that the goal of Freemasonry is enlightenment, or in other words attainment of Godhood( whatever that means to them). Notice the "G" in the middle of the masonic square and compass.

Does this sound similar to the Mormon outcome, to become gods?

I'm beginning to think he plagiarized Christianity and Freemasonry to create his own brand of religion.

God Bless.
Finchy

 

[skylark1]

I guess the best way for me to expose false doctorine is not to use their symbols then. I will have to just use true Biblical doctorine. Look for a new thread but I have a feeling that this one will also keep going since I will never believe that there is no possible chance that JS just used the same symbols and replaced the meaning. Why would he replace the meaning if he was a mason? What kind of logic is that? Does it matter what each LDS member believes? Not as much as it matters what the founder believed. Now the evidence agrees with them having masonic meaning. I can prove JS was a mason, can you prove that he wasnt skylark?

Hello, Zeal. I have not claimed that JS was not a mason. If someone created a new religion and borrowed from other sources, then it is certainly possible that they borrowed symbols and assigned a different meaning to them that fit their theology. It is logical.

 

[ZealouS]

Why would he assign a diffrent meaning to them when he was a Mason? In masonry their goal is to infilitrate all aspects of our lives and control us. If JS was a LDS but also a Mason guess what the Masonic view overrides the LDS. It is the way freemasonry works. Thus with putting those symbols on the temple he was announcing that Masonry is in control of the LDS church. If you understood how masonry works and their plans for bringing about the NWO and the AC, then you would not be sitting here arguing that the symbols mean something diffrent. That goes for LDS and skylark alike.

 

[skylark1]

Plus I live in utah in a small town so there are only LDS churches near me.

Maybe this will help.

http://www.churchangel.com/utah.htm

 

[skylark1]

Why would he assign a diffrent meaning to them when he was a Mason? In masonry their goal is to infilitrate all aspects of our lives and control us. If JS was a LDS but also a Mason guess what the Masonic view overrides the LDS. It is the way freemasonry works. Thus with putting those symbols on the temple he was announcing that Masonry is in control of the LDS church. If you understood how masonry works and their plans for bringing about the NWO and the AC, then you would not be sitting here arguing that the symbols mean something diffrent. That goes for LDS and skylark alike.

I think that you already have your mind made up, and are not willing to listen to any other opinion. I don't agree with the conspiracy theories that you believe, nor do I agree with Mormonism. If you want to know what I think beyond that, then I suggest that you go back and read my posts again. I am bowing out of discussing this with you.

 

[ZealouS]

I am very open minded but I am also on guard against falsehood. I understand your point that symbols can mean diffrent things to diffrent people but I believe we need to be on our guard against things. What masonry stands for and the fact the JS was a Mason is not a theory but fact. Just saying that they could mean something else doesnt slice it for me since we have established that he was a Mason at the time of his death so there would be no logical reason why they would mean something else.

Now I understand that not all LDS members will look at them and think they mean something Satanic or bad. I know that they believe they refer to various pieces of their theology. It is something that can be subject to personal interpretation. Idolatry was a big thing in the ancient world, and God commanded the Isrealites to stay away from it. It wasnt because God was afraid of these Idols or didnt see them as more than a piece of wood or block of stone but that they were a threat of leading his people astray and in the end destroying them. So he taught the Isrealites to see them as they really were and that was just a piece of stone or wood and to stay away from them. Just because the Isrealites viewed these pagan gods as mere stone or wood they didnt go around erecting monuments and statues of them just because they liked the way they looked or wanted them to represent something holy. Symbolism should be viewed in the same way. It may be just something carved in stone and have no meaning or a diffrent meaning to you but what does it say to God who knows all things? Be on your guard.

 

[ZealouS]

Thank you for the link skylark and I am sorry if I have attacked or offended you in anyway. I look forward to hopefully finding a congregation I can praised the Lord Jesus Christ with.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

I think most EVERYONE on this thread already has their mind made up on this subject. I don't think it is any use for anyone to try and convince another that their view of it is right as compared to another because I am willing to bet that none of us are going to change our opinions on the subject of the whole "symbol" thing. (except maybe for my new view on the christmas tree because of the post directed at me regarding the pagan nature of it.)

 

[Doc T]

ZealouS, not to pick on you, but yours is the last post when I started reading today the last 3 pages that are riddled with errors. Since you mention several of them I am using your post as an example.

As stated before if JS was a mason, which he was, than the symbols more likely than not take on the Masonic meaning.

That is a non-sequitur (one does not necessarily follow the other). Just because JS was a mason does not follow that the symbols, if borrowed, had Masonic meaning to him.

It is what he thought of them that matters.

That would be correct.

I know you guys like to argue the point that he just borrowed them because he thought they look pretty, which is possible, but you seem to over look the masonic temple ceremonies found in the LDS church. Same blood oaths were taking place up til 1990. Now if you consider the Masonic connection in LDS belief and temple ceremony than it should be a NO BRAINER to figure out that those signs hold the freemasonry meaning. This meaning represents evil.

This is where you are mistaken. D. Charles Pyle, a Master Mason of the Scottish Rite had this to say about the "parallels" between the LDS temple ceremony and Masonry:

Funny thing about that is that this list of so-called parallels has snippets of ritual from old Rite of Perfection/Scottish Rite rituals and from various degrees of the York Rite. Trouble with doing so is that these parallels not only come from these bodies of Masonry to which Joseph Smith never belonged, they come from a ritual exposure (Richardon's Monitor of Freemasonry) dated from 1860, years too late to have been of much use to Joseph Smith. Further to add insult to injury, the Scottish Rite did not make inroads into Illinois until 1859, still years too late to have been of use to Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith belonged only to a Blue Lodge which conferred the three degrees of Ancient Craft Masonry only, namely, Entered Apprentice (1°), Fellowcraft (2°), and the Sublime Degree of Master Mason (3°).​

So you see the Masonic parallels that may have vague similarities to the LDS temple ceremonies are the wrong form of Masonry that JS belonged to. They came from a ritual exposure years later than JS.

From a christian point of view does it make sense to have anything to do with pagan rituals.

No one has shown any of these rituals to be pagan. In fact the LDS rituals have more parallels to early Christian rituals than to any pagan rituals.

Doc

~

 

[ZealouS]

I agree happy. Its funny how we all get a serious case of tunnel vision when it comes to religion. I made the mistake of putting too much faith in the argument of symbols since it is one that CAN rely on personal interpretation. It seemed like it would be a big deal but it turns out it is only a big deal to me. As I said doctorine is the place to really discuss things and get somewhere. I just thought if we could establish that JS was a Mason it would open the LDS members eys to their leader. I guess it doesnt matter to them that he was a mason so now there is really no need to continue to stress/establish the link that he was a mason via use of the symbols which was initially my goal.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

I agree happy. Its funny how we all get a serious case of tunnel vision when it comes to religion. I made the mistake of putting too much faith in the argument of symbols since it is one that CAN rely on personal interpretation. It seemed like it would be a big deal but it turns out it is only a big deal to me. As I said doctorine is the place to really discuss things and get somewhere. I just thought if we could establish that JS was a Mason it would open the LDS members eys to their leader. I guess it doesnt matter to them that he was a mason so now there is really no need to continue to stress/establish the link that he was a mason via use of the symbols which was initially my goal.

meaning behind symbolism is a big deal to me also, but obviously, as is apperent from this thread, it is not a big deal to a lot of other people. Anyway, I guess we will just have to be the "freaks" of the group. LOL

 

[skylark1]

I think most EVERYONE on this thread already has their mind made up on this subject. I don't think it is any use for anyone to try and convince another that their view of it is right as compared to another because I am willing to bet that none of us are going to change our opinions on the subject of the whole "symbol" thing. (except maybe for my new view on the christmas tree because of the post directed at me regarding the pagan nature of it.)

I agree that most have their minds made up. However, I do not think that should stand in the way of listening to other people's opinions, or result in accusing them of looking at the world through blinders.

 

[ZealouS]

Someone else take over for me because as stated noone is going to easily change their mind on the subject and I am burned out on sounding like a siren, screaming the same note over and over.