Mormons and decendants of Cain

[Plan 9]

Plan 9 wrote: (#10)
"I heard a sermon as late as the 1700s"

Umm, how old ARE you Plan 9?

tulc(just curious)

Sorry, I'm dyslexic and that was a typo, which I missed. I mean to write 1970s.
thank you for point that out. LOL
I'not quite that elderly!

 

[tulc]

That's KO I'm dyslexic too!
tulc

 

[Plan 9]

?? Oh man!! THAT'S the kind of thing that will keep everyone fighting and bickering. On the flip side of that, you have people like the woman my wife works with. My wife is a secretary at a large chemical refinery. She's over 4 labs there. One of the secretarys at a lab wasn't doing what she was supposed to, so my wife said something to her. The womans response? "You just don't like me because I'm black!" My wife was like "What the #$% are you talking about? You're not doing your work! It has nothing to do with your color!!" Sad as it may be, I've run into that same problem when I was managing a chain drug store here in town.

Yes, I bear down hard on the openly bigoted people who share my skin color here, because everyone gets defensive if they have enough horrible experiences and I hate the division this terrible behavior causes among us Americans. It's simply a matter of negative reinforcement: the person has taken so much verbal abuse and unfair treatment by the time they meet you, they've come to expect it on some level.
It was not so long ago that "Jim Crow" was alive and well in my town; it was a custom which prevailed long after the laws had been repealed.

 

[Plan 9]

That's KO I'm dyslexic too!
tulc

Are you? Can you always see your mistake after you make it? I'm new to this and sometimes it still embarrasses me.

 

[tulc]

Mine seem's worse with numbers, which was a lot worse when I drove a delivery truck in Chicago and kept transposing the numbers. I try and spell check a lot and sometimes it just get's away from me. The worst was once I wrote about a denomination and shortened it to denom. or thought I did, what I wrote was demon. That took about 8 post's to straighten out! I just wrote slower after that. It's something we can't control if it slips by hey that's why God (and Erwin) put edit buttons on here!
tulc(did you hear about the dyslexic atheist who didn't believe in Dog?)

 

[Plan 9]

Mine seem's worse with numbers, which was a lot worse when I drove a delivery truck in Chicago and kept transposing the numbers. I try and spell check a lot and sometimes it just get's away from me. The worst was once I wrote about a denomination and shortened it to denom. or thought I did, what I wrote was demon. That took about 8 post's to straighten out! I just wrote slower after that. It's something we can't control if it slips by hey that's why God (and Erwin) put edit buttons on here!
tulc(did you hear about the dyslexic atheist who didn't believe in Dog?)

AHAHAHAHAHA! GOOD ONE!! I've got a friend who will love that joke!!

I usually write out numbers because hitting the zero key causes my comp to endlessly type zeros on its own and I see I should stick with that for more than one reason.

My neurological problems hit me late in life and I often can't tell that I'm misspeaking or miswriting.

My writing mistakes can a bit on the Freudian side, so I'm terrified of letting one of those slip by
A number of times, when I've felt that my post will fall on deaf ears, I find i've written "impotent" rather than "important".

I also kind of hate it when a post like "Welcome to CF" is accompanied by the line "Edited by Plan 9 16 times". I mod at a site that counts your edits, too.

 

[Plan 9]

Androids like a VERY long life

Sadly, we Borg live only as long as our primary cortical nodes function properly; when they wear out, we're kaput.

You androids, on the other hand, have the potential to live lives of considerable length.

 

[Anthony]

That's where the sticky part comes in...how does a whole religion "repent" of their insults?? Surely the 15yr old Mormon down the street had nothing to do with J. Smith and B. Young?? How are they to repent? I'm skirting the edge of a bashing here, but isn't this similar to the modern day dilemma of African Americans telling me I owe them an apology for all their years of slavery? I personally never owned one. The people telling me this were never slaves themselves, so what do I owe?

I believe it was a bad part of our history. A history that we can all look back on and learn from, but not one that people should try to go and gain monetary value from. The suing, courts and whatnot that's going on is ridiculous.

The mormon religion was invented yes invented less than 200 years ago. The religion is made up as it goes. Blacks are out, then they are in. The mormon religion has a history of changing things to what makes sense to their elders at the time.

Early American Churches attempted to use the Bible to support slavery. But the Mormon religion actually had their own supporting doctrine as part on the major beliefs

There is no complete fixed truth, which the people can hold their elders too. In Christianity we are not held to the wims of men, but rather to one Holy Bible.

 

[Plan 9]

The mormon religion was invented yes invented less than 200 years ago. The religion is made up as it goes. Blacks are out, then they are in. The mormon religion has a history of changing things to what makes sense to their elders at the time.

There is not fixed truth, which the people can hold their elders too. In Christianity we are not held to the wims of men, but rather to one Holy Bible.

But, Anthony, essentially the same doctrine was taught by Christian elders for well over one hundred years and may still be taught today, for all I know.
Apparently, we haven't been doing a good job of holding our elders to a higher standard; their whim was our whim for a long, long time.

 

[Techbot]

But, Anthony, essentially the same doctrine was taught by Christian elders for well over one hundred years and may still be taught today, for all I know.
Apparently, we haven't been doing a good job of holding our elders to a higher standard; their whim was our whim for a long, long time.

True. Tradition holds that some of the founding fathers were active in their churches and yet still had slaves.

 

[Plan 9]

True. Tradition holds that some of the founding fathers were active in their churches and yet still had slaves.

A fact, I'm afraid.

Mark Twain based the character Jim in his anti-slavery novel, Hucklebery Finn, on that of a real slave owned by his father, who Twain had loved very much.

 

[Techbot]

A fact, I'm afraid.

Mark Twain based the character Jim in his anti-slavery novel, Hucklebery Finn, on that of a real slave owned by his father, who Twain had loved very much.

Well, as for the forefathers attending church regularly and all I'm sure there are non-believers who would like to shoot that down...I know I've seen them try on other forums.

 

[Anthony]

But, Anthony, essentially the same doctrine was taught by Christian elders for well over one hundred years and may still be taught today, for all I know.
Apparently, we haven't been doing a good job of holding our elders to a higher standard; their whim was our whim for a long, long time.

True, the difference is Christian Elders attempted to use the Bible to support their racist viewpoint, Where as the Mormon Creators actually wrote their own foundational views as part of their core beliefs.

Also Christian Elders words have to be supported by the Bible, Where Mormon Elders, if in high enough rank, can make it up as they go.

Here is just some of what the Mormon Elders state on the subject:


There is a reason why one man is born black and with the other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful recieved less. - Joseph Fielding Smith - 10th LDS President

In 1966, Bruce McConkie(ordained an apostle in 1972) his book Mormon Doctrine said"The negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concern . . .but this inequity is not of man's orgin. It is the Lord's doing."

The Negro is an unfortunate man. He has been given a black skin. But that is as nothin compared with the great handicap that he is not permitted to receive the Priesthood and the ordinances of the temple, necessary to prepare men and women to enter and enjoy a fullness of glory in the celestial kingdom - George Richards - Mormon Elder

Mormonism is like any religion in which men attempt to reshape christiainity to comform to there own policital agenda and religious viewpoints.

If you can't stick just with the Bible, than don't call or put yourself out as a Christian.

 

[Techbot]

If you can't stick just with the Bible, than don't call or put yourself out as a Christian.

Amen to that! You don't need any other books to tell you how to get in touch with God.

 

[MizDoulos]

Note to everyone: In order to keep harmony on this thread, please respect each other's opinions and respond kindly. Personal attacks will only lead to the thread deteriorating further and it will be closed eventually. If anyone finds it difficult to harness offensive remarks, I suggest that you "agree to disagree" and move on to another forum.

Let's strive to keep harmony in the thread.

Thank you!

 

[galatians2:20]

Here is just some of what the Mormon Elders state on the subject:

There is a reason why one man is born black and with the other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful recieved less. - Joseph Fielding Smith - 10th LDS President

In 1966, Bruce McConkie(ordained an apostle in 1972) his book Mormon Doctrine said"The negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concern . . .but this inequity is not of man's orgin. It is the Lord's doing."

The Negro is an unfortunate man. He has been given a black skin. But that is as nothin compared with the great handicap that he is not permitted to receive the Priesthood and the ordinances of the temple, necessary to prepare men and women to enter and enjoy a fullness of glory in the celestial kingdom - George Richards - Mormon Elder

These are good quotes which demonstrate the previous mindset of upper LDS leadership (President, 1st and 2nd Counsellors, Apostles, Quorum of the Seventy). When I said in my last transmission (2 or 3 pages ago) that the LDS religion should repent, I meant those in upper leadership who are responsible for the teachings and doctrines of Mormonism, not every Mormon.

For Smith and Young and others to deny them the ordinances of their religion because of the color of their skin, which goes against the BOM as well as the Bible, is one thing. But Young and others went much further by insulting black's intelligence and their physical facial features. They demonstrated their hatred towards blacks in their many demeaning descriptions.

The only apparent reason for the change in 1978 was the social pressure from those outside AND within the LDS religion. Just like in the days of their supposed renunciation of polygamy in 1890 in order to gain statehood and avoid federal prosecution.

What about repenting and apologizing for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

If ever there were false prophets in this world (which there were and are), Smith and Young were definitely among them. Thus is the dillema for the LDS leadership: their prophets can never be wrong, so how can the current leadership repent on behalf of Smith and Young. It would be an admission of the fault and guilt of their more beloved founding prophets. It would be an admission of their having led people astray.

Bob